[mbm]

perhaps someone needs to create a web page where folks can post stories/proof of what has happened to them? seems that might get attention?

[Crockpot]

perhaps someone needs to create a web page where folks can post stories/proof of what has happened to them? seems that might get attention?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thought you were against pile ons?

If there is evidence, it should be given to the appropriate authorities with the documentation ---and let them sift through hearsay vs fact and see what will stick.

Websites full of endless anecdotes and stories - untested "proof" posted on the net ---are useless,

Equine driver has disappeared and now there is a new gatherer?Why?


If you have a legitimate complaint, consult a lawyer about YOUR case or maybe go to small claims court on your own . If there is documentation to show she took your money and did not deliver in breach of a contract , for example, you can proceed without all this other foolishness..

There is no 'evidence" on this thread. The evidence is in each individual case in the documentation of what was agreed, what was paid and what was delivered...or not.

I don't see how a website with more of the same will change anything..

[mbm]

your right - it probably wont - but comments have been made that people need to be warned.....

and you are right - hopefully those that have been wronged have contacted legal help.

[lauriep]

Crockpot is absolutely right. Unless the posters here contact each other and come up with a way to file together, each wronged person MUST take steps on their own and get a case going. No, you will probably never recoup losses, but that isn't any reason not to proceed IF you have a true interest in stopping her and alerting others. Until that is done, it is just her word against "yours."

[szipi]

I just wonder how come she has had so much business??? Are her horses so much better than others from other, legitimate breeders? I don't think so. Is she such a great trainer that people just can't help themselves but wanting what she has produced? I don't think so. Does she have a good facility that is well run providing top-notch service? I don't think so. Does she have the education, experience, background and track record so people should trust her? I don't think so. She just probably has the uncanny ability to talk cr..p and sell snow to the Eskimos. I have not figured out what it is about horses that make otherwise reasonable, business-savvy people make totally irrational decisions. I understand that Gray Fox is not up to snuff - but buyer be aware. Also, over the years I have seen so many people here posting the praises of Gray Fox and Jill's stallions. Being gullible and believing Internet chatrooms usually has one result: losing money. Some might call it tuition.

[Laurierace]

The horses are nice and she does talk an incredible line of BS. But it is Jill Burnell, criminal from Gray Fox Farm, not the completely innocent in this matter Grey Fox Farm you referred to. Continuously making that mistake could get this thread taken down because the innocent party is being harmed by our carelessness. Then where would we be?

[Discobold]

Jill Burnell of Gray Fox Farms has already ALLEGEDLY committed more than enough crimes to get herself locked up for a period of time at some point.

This is true, with the word I added. I was a white collar crime prosecutor for years and put people in prison for much less than JB is alleged to have done. Don't just blame law enforcement. To successfully prosecute cases like this, you need courageous and willing victims/witnesses who want justice and not just to get their money back or pursue some personal agenda. I already offered my suggestions publicly and privately many months ago.

[Justa Bob]

This is true, with the word I added. I was a white collar crime prosecutor for years and put people in prison for much less than JB is alleged to have done. Don't just blame law enforcement. To successfully prosecute cases like this, you need courageous and willing victims/witnesses who want justice and not just to get their money back or pursue some personal agenda. I already offered my suggestions publicly and privately many months ago.

Add CA state budget cuts to the mix of whether the legal system will pursue one case over another. In our county in OR, there is a fully finished jail that was never opened due to budget cuts and only the most dangerous criminals are kept in jail - all others have short or no jail time. CA is a bigger mess than OR, so only persistence by those wronged can get some action. Fingers crossed that hoofjustice can assist in safe guarding the innocent animals involved -- hoping that they are not in danger due to dismal care.

[pegasus44]

If nothing else, the IRS will catch up with her one day. You can bet that a person not paying suppliers ain't paying taxes either.

[DoubleTwistedWire]

If nothing else, the IRS will catch up with her one day. You can bet that a person not paying suppliers ain't paying taxes either.

Or filing taxes and deducting as business expenses things she's gotten bills for but not paid, like her vet bills. The IRS does have an anonymous tipline

Frankly, I think szipi is right. She has, for the most part, OK stallions that would make great geldings. They're not some irreplaceable athletes who have cleaned up in the show ring, or who have rare bloodlines. She's just done a fantastic job of marketing them, and putting a lot on the ground.

[showjumpers66]

Maybe this is an option? http://www.complaintsboard.com

[showjumpers66]

She hasn't had as much business as she has lead people to believe. There is no question that Redwine's book did pick up, but the other stallions were not breeding many mares. Aloha, for example, she was posting online that his book was almost full yet she told me that she was worried as she only had 2 outside breedings to him and both were "free" breedings. She also lists horses as "sold", yet I have had several of these "buyers" tell me that they received the horse in trade of a bad debt for a fraction of the listed sale price. There is no question that she has a talent of putting a spin on things.

I just wonder how come she has had so much business???

[AndNirina]

She also lists horses as "sold", yet I have had several of these "buyers" tell me that they received the horse in trade of a bad debt for a fraction of the listed sale price. There is no question that she has a talent of putting a spin on things.

Exactly. Like the Roseland filly who was "sold" to Peter Pletcher. Uh huh... suuuuure she was.

[S A McKee]

Exactly. Like the Roseland filly who was "sold" to Peter Pletcher. Uh huh... suuuuure she was.

Yeah ?
USEF does list Peter Pletcher as the owner.
But JB is not the breeder. In fact the breeder is one of the 'favs' on this board.
So how is JB involved other than owning the stallion?
Is the breeder a 'bad person' for breeding to Redwine?

[showjumpers66]

I believe that was the filly that Jill purchased from the breeder and then bad mouthed the breeder on her blog. And, yes, Peter has been saying that he received a young horse from Jill in trade for the debt.

[sid]

Ths whole thread reminds me of something my Nana told me when I was a little girl..."Oh what a tangled web we weave, one once we practice to deceive".

The horses that are left with her are of real concern. Maybe her deceptive practices will get them to good homes, regardless of how many people might be scr**wed in the process. If so, that's a good thing for the horses.

Humans that have had these terrible dealings must be brave and committed to "right the wrongs" in the effort to protect and publicize this enough to warn others. Too many people just "roll over" and turn the other cheek. That is troublesome.

If they are not committed to right that personal wrong, then people like this will continue to carry on. If enough people pursue it, it can stop. Frankly, she's really a brilliant marketer in a "snake oil" kind of way and mastered the internet to do so.

She is a rogue breeder who has used marketing through the internet as a facade. I'd bet you that if she had been standing these stallions 20 years ago (pre-internet -- when one could not photoshop what the farm looked like, had visitors to see the stallions personally and the BM/foal care), she could have not fooled a soul.

Sadly, the horses still in her care don't have a choice but to be where they are unless the MANY who have posted here, get really really brave and put the spurs to her with lawsuits. Individually and not wait to do so en masse. That will never happen as most of the victims don't know each other and are spread out all across the country. Unless someone can find a lawyer who will take this on and do the legwork for a % of the settlement. But since she's obviously broke that would be hard to do.

One might spend a lot of money to pursue it, and not get any financial relief, but if they can afford to, it's just the right thing to do... if you don't have to sell the farm to do so.

The saddest part to me in all this is those who will just wimp out. Too much trouble, too much time. Might cost too much. Passive-aggressive.

Blech.

[showjumpers66]

sid, I tried to bring all of these issues to light 3 years ago, but no one wanted to listen. Any stallion owner or breeder that tried to post about the issues was accused of being jealous of her success which sure is a bitter pill to swallow when that was far the truth and they were trying to help others avoid a bad situation. At that point, Jill was using alters and her online fan club to create an illusion grandeur. I will say that I have stuck to my guns and have never wimped out.

[Mardi]

I believe that was the filly that Jill purchased from the breeder and then bad mouthed the breeder on her blog. And, yes, Peter has been saying that he received a young horse from Jill in trade for the debt.

Reading this gave me an idea ...what if.....
USEF had a chain-of-ownership data base ? You look up a horse, click on the registered owner, up comes the list of previous owners, with the date of sale, or transfer.

That would be interesting reading in any discipline.

[Mardi]

... I tried to bring all of these issues to light 3 years ago, but no one wanted to listen.

And three years with no mention in the equestrian media.

[daisycutter87]

Kind of like a CarFax report which states where a car was owned and for how long, and it lists all of the transfers of ownership.

I've been patiently waiting to hear any news from authorities on this woman. I'd like to know why no animal authorities have been there with the claims of poor care that some people have seen.

Second of all; any person who has been burned by Jill is at fault for not putting a stop to her if they want to keep silent. Keep silent and she will be free to continue her criminal behavior and carry on with screwing people over. There is more than enough sufficient evidence against her to put her away and be highly successful in a court of law. Those who wish to keep silent and not take action with their dilemma are at fault for Jill Burnell being able to continue this type of behavior.