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  1. #4401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Perhaps my issue is with the few voices who immediately used the publication of RS's medical records to imply there was underhanded or additional motives.
    Now, just to put some clarification, since I've learned that complex thought processes rarely work well in what has become the FOX News of horse threads...

    1. You can absolutely 100%agree that JB should be out of the business and that her animals should have better homes.

    2. You can absolutely agree that the seized animals should have been seized.

    3. You can totally agree, that given the circumstances, RS should have gone to a vet clinic for evaluation and the clinic he went to charged fair and reasonable services for a job well done.

    4. You can completely, 100% agree that RS was a BCS 3, and that is reprehensible and didn't happen overnight and needed to be addressed. Additionally you can agree his farrier/dental visits were not up to snuff as well.

    So everyone here is in complete agreement with all of the above, right? Good. Now here's where complex thought gets in the way of a JB FOX News Frenzy.

    5. It's possible some of us might have a different idea of what constitutes "serious injury". RS may have looked awful, the loser in the stallion fight rarely looks good. Personally I have a definition of serious that has been refined by 40+ years around these animals. When bones are not broken, soft tissues are not compromised, sutures are not used, abx/nsaids are discontinued in short order, and major organs are not involved... well it's probably not serious.

    6. It's also possible that you may believe that the injuries he had do not rise to the level of care he received.

    DANGER WILL ROBINSON - COMPLEX THOUGHT PROCESS AHEAD - PLEASE SKIP OVER IF YOU ARE A FROTHY SPITTLE POSTER. IF YOU ARE NOT SURE IF YOU FIT THIS DESCRIPTION, LOOK AROUND. IF YOU DON'T SEE ANYONE WHO DOES, CHANCES ARE, YOU ARE THAT PERSON.

    And what I mean by level of care is not a disparagement of UC Davis. It's a term of art best described as bringing a gun to a boxing match in the medical care terms. A "human" example is if a homeless person (who magically has insurance) got in a fight with someone and ended up with a severely battered face. If they went to ER, they may have been admitted for an inpatient stay (overnight) but after a thorough evaluation (xrays, evaluation of the symptoms, observation, etc.) they would be discharged and sent home with instructions for keeping the wounds clean, taking abx and maybe some tylenol for pain and a follow up visit scheduled with their regular doctor. The fact that they needed a regular sammich, healthier diet, a visit to the shoe store and dentist would be duly noted.

    7. What would NEVER EVER happen is said person would take up residence in a hospital when the only care being rendered is all of the above, just because the person didn't have a "home". That's not what inpatient admissions are for - for people OR horses. They are for the sick (and for damn good reason - many vet hospitals would try to get the non critical out quickly due to risk of salmonella outbreaks).

    8. Ideally, in the horse world what would happen is said horse would be admitted, evaluated, treated and discharged in short order with good instructions for care packed in his lunch box along with his sammich. Which clearly he needed.

    9. But what if he was homeless? And this is the crux of the matter. RS shouldn't be homeless. There should be an alternative arrangement more suited to the care he requires (basic wound care, basic horse care and basic food & water) under the purview of the MCHS. That's not (in my mind) an unreasonable request.

    Which brings me to my final point. MCHS has a fiduciary duty to the county as well as a duty to protect the animals of Marin County. It also needs to maintain a strong defensible legal position to best serve its clients (Marin county residents). It does not yet own RS and the three other horses (and whoever else is seized, should that be the case), but before this is all over, I imagine what it will reasonably expect $$$ for the care of these animals in the event they are returned to their original owner (be that Rising Star in the case of RS or JB in the case of the other horses). By creating a situation where the cost of taking care of RS during this period far exceeds what it should be for a non-disputed horse in exactly the same condition with reasonable facilities, they have not improved their position.

    If they were to present that bill/legal liability, under those circumstances, to someone who was not responsible for his current condition and who they NEVER consulted with, advised, notified or even acknowledged as the owner during the entire process, I would not be surprised if that person was really really angry. OK, let me correct that statement. If I was that person I would be beyond livid. I would also recognize that if they lost their lawsuit against JB, that bill would be the first thing to be contested and there is a very real possibility the total amount owed could be far less, thus leaving MCHS and the residents of Marin county holding the financial bag.

    COMPLEX THOUGHT PROCESS OVER - FROTHY SPITTLE POSTERS MAY RESUME READING!

    So when I question that bill, before you (the generic you) take finger to keyboard and hit that enter key with your frothy spittle post, STOP and reread items 1-4. Take any allegations, reference et. to those topics OUT of your post so as to reduce the amount of people who question your intellect. Don't accuse people of things they have clearly have not said. Did you check it twice? Is there anything left in your post that makes any sense? Good. Post away!
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    21 members found this post helpful.

  2. #4402
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    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    Will you marry me?



    6 members found this post helpful.

  3. #4403
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    Jan. 30, 2003
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    GA
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    How about t-shirts? Instead of "Free John Bates" they can read "Free Romantic Star"!


    6 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4404
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    Feb. 4, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    I gave to MHS directly and I am happy I did. If they don't need the money for these horses (God knows where they are and in what condition), then it will go to another needy animal.
    You do realize that Marin County is the 46th richest county in the entire United States? What a shame that all those high income people in Marin County don't contribute to their humane society and expect people from the lowest incomes to support their shelter. Then it turns out that they can't even feed and shelter a horse with all that money??? Very strange. According to their Annual Report they made close to $7,000,000 in 2011. Added to their net assets close to $300K. Well I guess when you take in $25K over a particular situation with 4 horses and then don't pay anything towards their upkeep and bill it back to either the original owner or the reputed new owner, ask for 10K to release one horse when the vet bill is only 7K.... quite a money-maker. Just wondering what they are doing with all that money. Now I am sure Leg-UP has to keep some money back for the bank fees and cost of advertising, etc, so they are not getting the full 25K, but that is still a lot of money going where? I saw the phots of Jill's place. I am not sure if she was more in need of the charity than the MHS. What I see in looking at those pics is someone who is struggling to hold on to what she has and try to get on her feet. Sort of sad actually. I never posted on this before because there is so much emotion on each side of the fence but I know the MHS is loaded. They made $500,000 interest on their bank account. I think I made $14.00. Lovely thought for a stallion auction, but would rather see it used to benefit horse owners than the MHS. Just my opinion. http://www.marinhumanesociety.org/at...11_finalv2.pdf


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #4405
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    Jill Burnell was in need of CHARITY? After she let the house her parents bought her foreclose? After she kept breeding horses even after it became obvious she had no place for them and could not care for them?

    After she defrauded, swindled, lied, and stiffed vendors and horse pros?

    The poor darling just purchased a piece of property for half a million dollars!

    I have an idea - What if JB sold her horses before she let them fall to scores of "3" and STARTED WORKING AT A REAL JOB.

    Edited to add... JB needs professional help, but not charity which would enable her sick behavior which horses are now suffering from.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  6. #4406
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    Oct. 27, 2006
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    Ontario
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    Just to be clear, I never stated that I thought the charity was a fraud etc, I appreciate the spirit of the members of the board to band together to help.

    What I did say is that the organizers of 'Leg Up' stated that any extra money would go towards MHS legal fees. If that is the case, it puts the $$ donated by CoTHers , trying to help, towards directly fighting one of their own in court.

    It makes many of us uncomfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    Ding! Ding! Ding!




    At the end of the day, whether the Marin Humane Society has extra monies left over or not, this is how I see it; Individuals have been screaming from the roof tops in regards to Jill Burnell for more than a year. Hardly anyone listened. Hardly anyone wanted to get involved. Authorities have been contacted....nobody listened (or maybe they just couldn't do anything about it). The Marin Humane Society listened, and it is because of their dedication and efforts that we may get to see some justice done, and alleged victims may even get to see their day in court. As a result, I'm more than willing to donate money to the Marin Humane Society, if nothing else, to simply say THANK-YOU for being the ones who finally listened and for being the ones who finally stepped up to the plate and did something about this three ring circus. At the end of the day, isn't that in itself worth our donations?

    I should also note, the Leg-Up Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, so all disbursements of funds are public record at the end of the year. But good effort to those few who are using diversion tactics to try and derail this thread.

    Off my soap box now!
    Proud scar wearing member of the Bold, Banned and Bitchen clique


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #4407
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    Feb. 8, 2013
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    Further to a post in regards to where abouts of Redwine and Aloha, from a resourceful breeder, the boys have possibly shipped to Mexico!



  8. #4408
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    Feb. 23, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelic View Post
    Further to a post in regards to where abouts of Redwine and Aloha, from a resourceful breeder, the boys have possibly shipped to Mexico!
    So now we have a brand new poster starting yet another rumour.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #4409
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    oh come on. Even JB is not that dumb as to ship her horses. On the contrary, I am sure they are being hidden and fed by some of her friends. I would be quite interested though to find out how many breedings to RW will be sold this coming season...
    If someone still has not heard and is still buying, well... they deserve the mess they will get themselves in!

    And, I am fine with my donation to MHS... it was given freely!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #4410
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    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Alberta, Canada
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    http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/news/s...l-seizure.aspx

    Wow, I wouldn't have said in a million years that Romantic Star was worth $100,000!! Did Ronda know he is 18 years old? Didn't Jill pay $25,000 for him when she bought him?

    Guess she can pay off all of her outstanding debts now! (rolling eyes)
    Last edited by Daventry; Feb. 8, 2013 at 06:49 PM.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4411
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    I guess I am daft. I don't see what the issue is. The stallion IS evidence in an ongoing investigation. If the investigation is on going .. evidence is typically held until it has been resolved/closed.

    1. You can absolutely 100%agree that JB should be out of the business and that her animals should have better homes.

    2. You can absolutely agree that the seized animals should have been seized.

    3. You can totally agree, that given the circumstances, RS should have gone to a vet clinic for evaluation and the clinic he went to charged fair and reasonable services for a job well done.

    4. You can completely, 100% agree that RS was a BCS 3, and that is reprehensible and didn't happen overnight and needed to be addressed. Additionally you can agree his farrier/dental visits were not up to snuff as well.
    All facts. Coupled with
    A report from UC Davis states the Hanoverian presented with a swollen head, multiple lacerations, an eye swollen shut, and swollen front legs with a small puncture wound.


    The vet report notes the stallion's "CBC revealed some inflammation and there were changes on the chemistry due to anorexia and muscle damage." He was given a body condition score of 3 at the equine hospital.
    Seems to me to be more then sufficient reason for the MHS to seize the animal. Or were they supposed to know that RS had been purchased by Rising Star and a better future was on his horizon. I am fairly certain they deal with current events not future predictions.

    I do hope that Rhonda gets him , I'm thrilled his future will be comfortable. I wish with earnest the rest of Jill's horses have the same fate. HOWEVER , the stallion WAS in Jill's possession and under her care and found with the aforementioned issues.

    I'm certain had he been left in that condition under Jill's promise of " Don't worry hes sold and going to Rising Star she'll fix him up". There would be equal out rage at him having been not seized.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4412
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    Feb. 4, 2012
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    Quick question. If a horse has a body score of 3 why would he only be fed two flakes of alfalfa a day and two flakes of grass hay a day? That would be only 15 to 16 pounds of hay a day for a huge stallion! I am sorry but we keep feed in front of our stallion (and mares for that matter) 24/7 and they have winter ryegrass. I can't imagine why you would feed a thin horse such little hay? Unless maybe he did not have a body score of 3?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #4413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stella M View Post
    I just have to say that I 100% support the work that Leg-up did for these horses and the agency that got them out of a really neglected state.

    Let's remember, the seizure has already been upheld in the legal system.

    And really, no one gets a weird feeling over this transaction? I mean Jill has been known to advertise and market horses she has never owned, but now we are all supposed to believe that she is going to sell one of her most valuable stallions without a single ad or marketing... just poof. He sells in the midst of this huge mess at her farm? With her lawyer representing the new stallion owner AND Jill?

    Sorry, it all stinks to me.
    Get over yourself. The sale was completely above board, Ronda and Jill were not strangers to each other, Ronda had wanted the horse for a long time and Jill needed to get rid of SOMETHING to get some cash. Gee, makes perfect sense to me.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callmeacab View Post
    Just because RS posted the vet statement does not mean she is the one who paid the bill. The billing clearly shows that MHS is the one who contracted with Davis for the care. They are the ones who have been paying the bills. Too much going on behind the scenes and too much speculation.
    No, Ronda paid the bills.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #4415
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    Aug. 2, 2001
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    Who's to say that maybe the attending vet(s) deem RS unfit to make a cross country trip and that's why he hasn't been released. Unless you're a veterinarian and have laid eyes, and hands on the horse you can't dispute that possibility. Just to add to the speculation.
    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

    What's the status on Tuco?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4416
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    No, Ronda paid the bills.
    you sure about that? The bills were to MHS. Not that I know diddle about who paid what but this has gotten even nastier than could be imagined.
    To discern a little fact:
    RS bought a stallion - I think, guess, figure from all the posts
    Stallion left in JB care
    JB investigated by MHS (thank goodness)
    Stallion one of horse "seized" due to poor shape
    Stallion was still in JB care when seized (owner not an issue!)
    Per the COTH issue of January 28,2013: "After a three hour hearing, an Independent Hearing Officer rule on Jan 14 that the Marin Humane Society was justified in seizing two horses from Gray Fox Farm on Dec.27" One was Romantic Star

    So hopefully it is RUMOR that Ronda S is suing the MHS - and hopefully rumor not for a sum that is reported. That poor old stallion? Hmm - hope he lands SAFE and SOUND - and with Ronda, super duper!
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #4417
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    Feb. 8, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    Get over yourself. The sale was completely above board, Ronda and Jill were not strangers to each other, Ronda had wanted the horse for a long time and Jill needed to get rid of SOMETHING to get some cash. Gee, makes perfect sense to me.
    And you know this because:

    (a) Ronda told you so.

    (b) Jill told you so.

    (c) You traveled forward in time and were the judge at the trial where those issues were decided (note: whether the sale was "above board" is a legal issue).

    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    No, Ronda paid the bills.
    And you know this because:

    (a) Ronda told you so.

    (b) You work in the billing department at Davis.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  18. #4418
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    Nov. 23, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toadie's mom View Post
    Who's to say that maybe the attending vet(s) deem RS unfit to make a cross country trip and that's why he hasn't been released. Unless you're a veterinarian and have laid eyes, and hands on the horse you can't dispute that possibility. Just to add to the speculation.
    That's not speculation, really. When my mare was so badly starved she was in rehab for 3 months before it was deemed okay for her to travel...and that was only 5 hrs away from me -- not a big cross country trip.

    A horse that is recovering from injuries but more imporantly, is badly malnourished (a "sytemic" recovery needed) could well be recommended by attending veterarians to stay put until it has gained sufficient weight and strength for the trip -- especially if the intention is to put him back in to full service. Spring is almost here, you know -- the 2013 breeding season.

    (As an aside, generally speaking, breeding stallions usually require more calories during the breeding season to keep acceptable weight -- a lot of sex burns calories. .) With an alaready malnourished horse and the prospect of a long cc trip that can also cause weight loss, I could see why a good veterinarian would find it in the horse's best interest to stay put and gain some weight.

    And if he looked anything like the mare displayed that can take many, many months. To me that would be prudent for the well being of the horse. Any horse in this situation.
    Last edited by sid; Feb. 8, 2013 at 07:38 PM. Reason: typos!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #4419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    I guess I am daft. I don't see what the issue is. The stallion IS evidence in an ongoing investigation. If the investigation is on going .. evidence is typically held until it has been resolved/closed.



    All facts. Coupled with

    Seems to me to be more then sufficient reason for the MHS to seize the animal. Or were they supposed to know that RS had been purchased by Rising Star and a better future was on his horizon. I am fairly certain they deal with current events not future predictions.

    I do hope that Rhonda gets him , I'm thrilled his future will be comfortable. I wish with earnest the rest of Jill's horses have the same fate. HOWEVER , the stallion WAS in Jill's possession and under her care and found with the aforementioned issues.

    I'm certain had he been left in that condition under Jill's promise of " Don't worry hes sold and going to Rising Star she'll fix him up". There would be equal out rage at him having been not seized.
    Lynwood, you are the most awesome person ever and have totally made my day. I'm not kidding. I couldn't have dreamed of a better response if I sat down with a box of wine. Ever. I mean, in a million years. Your keen insightful assessment that this:

    "Seems to me to be more then sufficient reason for the MHS to seize the animal.
    When I said (and you quoted, which is where the AWESOMENESS factor made it to 10):

    "2. You can absolutely agree that the seized animals should have been seized."
    Well that was only second to the quote from the vet report (trust me, I read it) while also (again) quoting me agreeing with you:

    3. You can totally agree, that given the circumstances, RS should have gone to a vet clinic for evaluation and the clinic he went to charged fair and reasonable services for a job well done.

    4. You can completely, 100% agree that RS was a BCS 3, and that is reprehensible and didn't happen overnight and needed to be addressed. Additionally you can agree his farrier/dental visits were not up to snuff as well.
    Well, I'm just saying - and I mean this - that has really made my night and I do humbly thank you.

    I do suspect the next time any of us come upon a BCS 3 horse with some wounds that do not rise to the level of sutures, drains or grafts, we will know that said horse needs to be admitted to an inpatient/clinical setting for 6+ weeks of something in order to receive the appropriate level of care for his condition. Anything else is just going to be sub par management skills. Of course MY vet will probably think I need admitting if I told her that, but not exactly to an acute care facility, if you get my drift.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #4420
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    Feb. 4, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    (As an aside, generally speaking, breeding stallions usually require more calories during the breeding season to keep acceptable weight -- a lot of sex burns calories. .) With an alaready malnourished horse and the prospect of a long cc trip that can also cause weight loss, I could see why a good veterinarian would find it in the horse's best interest to stay put and gain some weight.
    .
    That is exactly what I am wondering. UC Davis did a thorough workup and did not mention one word about being underweight. They noted he was muddy and they gave him a bath. AND they fed him what you would feed an ordinary horse. Now UC Davis is very well-respected with regards to nutrition, so I cannot believe they would underfeed a starving horse; as well, I cannot believe they would examine an undernourished horse and fail to mention it, especially when they went to the effort to note that he was muddy.


    3 members found this post helpful.

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