[BaroquePony]

Posted by mbm (from the other cross-posted thread):

Even tho there is the drama of the seized horses i would not rely on that shutting down Ms Burnell.

therefore i suggest anyone that has been allegedly wronged by Ms Burnell to gather all your paperwork, facts etc and contact Daventry here on COTH - she has said she will help folks find legal help.

I would hope that folks can band together and work to bring justice.

This is the main goal ^.

[Acertainsmile]

Ya. Lordhelpus! How come you know stuff and Acertainsmile doesn't??? Don't you know that now puts you in cahoots with the enemy?
FFS people! Why do you think you deserve to know about a person's private business dealings? Why would that person come on here and broadcast it when certain participants of this thread seem to exist only for the DRAAAAAMA and others have such thinly veiled agendas, it makes saying anything akin to walking in a mine field. All the little nudge nudge/wink wink postings about the 'truth' and the 'facts' coming out do not make them so.

Why not let the MHS do it's job and the courts do theirs?

The bolded is exactly what is creating the drama...who called her the enemy??? Take a good look in the mirror before looking around.

[horsenut93136]

Cheap stallion fees, baby deals, mare swaps etc

3Dogs I hate to burst your bubble but have you taken a look around you recently? There are quite a few who do business this way and they aren't all shady.

[dilligaff2]

No,the bolded is sarcasm. I will try better to point it out directly next time. [/sarcasm]

[DMK]

the prospect of "rewards" above and beyond the "norm"? (Cheap stallion fees, baby deals, mare swaps etc in this equine case). All the lure of a Bernie Madoff. Too good to be true!

I am a bit lost on how you are making connections between those actions and Madoff, because if a breeder - ANY breeder - owns the stock, then they have the right to sell, give away, discount, trade that stock however they please. It's their property. So I am not sure what is illegal or unethical about that? It might be a stupid business practice, one they cannot afford to do and still meet their financial obligations, or it might actually improve their position in the market and give them a better "product".

Either way, it's pretty standard stuff in the breeding world, be it horse, other livestock, dog or even cats . Breeders trade stock or breedings to build up a base that suits the type of animal they are trying to develop. Nothing new or radical about that. If Ogden Phipps and Claiborne swapped a few mares and foals or breeding seasons because Claiborne had a mare that worked better with Easy Goer and Phipps had a mare that would have suited Pulpit perfectly, would you be all aflutter? Because that sort of trading is how we got Secretariat. It kind of worked out well for the world, don't you think?

So implying that is like the lure of Bernie Madoff (whose crime was taking other people's money, not wasting his own) is either falsely provocative or just plain not SMRT.

A case (many cases actually) needs to be made against the illegal activities that JB has conducted and there is no shortage of those, but when you muddy the waters by implying things to suit your own private little agenda against (yet another) third party, you probably damage the efforts of those actually wronged by JB and trying to seek restitution or resolution. Pat yourself on the back, enablers and dogs come in all shapes and sizes apparently...

[Leg-Up]

Auction Items Closing This Evening, Wed Jan 23 2013:
^{(Note that auction closes at time indicated or approximately 5 minutes after last bid)}

21:10:00 EST 1 - 2hr Photography Session & Edited Images By Victoria DeMore Photography
21:25:00 EST 1 Gift Certificate to Signature Spurs.com
21:40:00 EST A Custom Ration & Month Supply of Feeds & Supplements of Cavalor
21:55:00 EST 1 Hunter Jumper Train Case
22:10:00 EST Winner's Choice of any of Barb Young's award winning photographs

Items We Have Added Today
1 Emerald Valley Gift Pack

Tally to Date/Time of Posting

Date	Total Winning Bids	Payments Received to Date (Google Checkout, PayPal or other payment commissions not deducted)
January 10-16, 2013	$15,379.00	$10,104
January 17, 2013	$1,650.00	$1,650
January 18, 2013	$1,750.00	$1,150
January 19, 2013	$1,064.50	$744.50
January 20, 2013	$1,250.00	$605
January 21, 2013	$890	$245
January 22, 2013	$1,660	$0
TOTALS:	$23,643.50	$14,498.50

Please note that we are no longer accepting donations specifically in aid of the Marin Humane Society. We are however accepting donations in aid of other current and future situations, and will keep the auction going as long as we have items donated!

It goes without saying - but we very happily say it anyway - that we offer a BIG THANK YOU to everyone who has donated or participated in the auction so far!!

[Renascence]

Cheap stallion fees, baby deals, mare swaps etc

3Dogs I hate to burst your bubble but have you taken a look around you recently? There are quite a few who do business this way and they aren't all shady.

Maybe they are not shady, maybe they are not, we do not even know who you are talking about, nor does it matter.

Do not use your "everyone else is doing it" excuse on us.

They have not been documented ripping everyone off and causing animals to suffer through negligence and starvation, as has Jill Burnell. Therefore these people that you speak of may conduct their business as they please, without public scrutiny, public anger, and public outrage.

[Louise]

Congratulations people! You have all done splendid work towards doing Jill B's job for her. She doesn't have to post, obfuscating and confusing the situation until no one remembers that she is the subject and focus of the need to shut down her operation and get her horses in a safe place. You have, with your malice and ego, managed to totally shift this focus towards the usual Sport Horse Forum focus of "I'm right and everyone else is wrong." Or, to put it another way "me, me, me." What a truly wonderful group you are.

I hope that this thread IS shut down because, at this point, it is doing nothing more that to prove, once again, what a selfish and self-centered group sport horse breeders on this forum seem to be.

When I want a new horse, I'll be sure to go get one from the track. At least the owners and trainers there are honestly dishonest.

[trubandloki]

I hope that this thread IS shut down because, at this point, it is doing nothing more that to prove, once again, what a selfish and self-centered group sport horse breeders on this forum seem to be.

All the squabbles aside, I do not see this. There have been some amazingly generous offers of help and donations that have been made to help in this situation.

[horsenut93136]

Maybe they are not shady, maybe they are not, we do not even know who you are talking about, nor does it matter.

Do not use your "everyone else is doing it" excuse on us.

They have not been documented ripping everyone off and causing animals to suffer through negligence and starvation, as has Jill Burnell. Therefore these people that you speak of may conduct their business as they please, without public scrutiny, public anger, and public outrage.

MY "everyone else is doing it excuse",,,seriously Ren do you really not read much? As long as people want to generalize, drag others into a situation they should not be in or spew lies instead of fact I will take issue with it.

@DMK well said

[Acertainsmile]

Oh my goodness DMK, don't believe everything you see in a Disney movie.

[Louise]

All the squabbles aside, I do not see this. There have been some amazingly generous offers of help and donations that have been made to help in this situation.

Worthwhile correction on this one point, trubandloki. When the confiscation news first broke, there were many such offers. And you'll notice that most of those people have long since left the discussion. In every barrel of bad apples, a few manage to retain their freshness. The direction that this discussion has turned lately, unfortunately, just illustrates how few those good apples are.

[DMK]

Oh my goodness DMK, don't believe everything you see in a Disney movie.

I'm not in any way referring to the movie. I'm referring to Phipps and Hancock choosing to waive stud fees in order to attract suitable mares in exchange for half the progeny of those mares.

Can you elaborate on what you though I was referring to? Or did you just assume my knowledge was limited to the fiction of the movie, which had precisely nothing to do with the topic at hand, the legality or ethical nature of waived or discounted stud fees. The reality? A bit more on point.

[Go Fish]

Oh my goodness DMK, don't believe everything you see in a Disney movie.

Right back atcha...

I will say that some people posting on this thread are just as nutty as JB is. What is it about breeding horses that brings the nutjobs out of the woodwork?

BTW, many people on this thread are confusing the word "defense" with the word "fact." Look it up...

[CDE Driver]

I do wonder, if this thread were pared down to truly relevant posts, how many posts would be left?

[Callmeacab]

Take it outside, please. This is morphing into a fourth grade spitting contest. Next thing, you'll be pulling each other's braids and accusing your mothers of wearing army boots.

[Lord Helpus]

No,the bolded is sarcasm. I will try better to point it out directly next time. [/sarcasm]

That is me who liked your post. I took it the way you meant it.

If Acertain smile doesn't begin to stick to fact, instead of spreading wild and demeaning rumors. this thread will probably be shut down (which should have happened at least 100 pages ago)..

So.... Keep on going Acertainsmile. Only people like you (and me, who was goaded into a vituperative reply) will get this shut down.

[Roisin]

[u]Please note that we are no longer accepting donations specifically in aid of the Marin Humane Society. We are however accepting donations in aid of other current and future situations, and will keep the auction going as long as we have items donated!

Thank you for your efforts, Leg-Up.

[dilligaff2]

Somebody likes me. I live for the green thumb.

[Janeway]

and thanks to DMK and Lord Helpus for being the sane and practical ones on this thread! I roll my eyes at those individuals who keep jumping on you two as if you're the ones being inflammatory