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  1. #4241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    I guess the bottom line Laurie , DMK, etc is WHY defend her at all? Years ago people who have equal respect in the business warned of something being NQR and over the last say 6 years using the number you've quoted the % of poor business issues and poor horse care has been on a steady rise.

    Why defend her at all ? Do you think the picture of the starved mare .. or where her in laws were being housed ..or the money she to owes god knows who at this point deserve a defense ?

    If anything Laurie the very fact that her quasii ponzi scheme has degraded to the point that even people like yourself who at one time was a business associate and a stalwart defender have been left holding the tab should be enough to just let the defending go.

    She is a smart women who had/has nice stallions and nice mares and by all accounts had all the pieces to make a really successful mark in the business. It was her choices and actions that have caused her decent into the current. None of it is defensible.

    The rest of the arguing back and forth is just trying to pick fly shit out of the pepper.
    The picture of the mare made me sick. But if you are now saying this means that we can attribute ANYTHING to JB. Any act of cruelty etc. and just be ok with that?

    I love how it becomes arguing back and forth when reality is mentioned. Facts from the start on this thread were few and so many bashed for trying to point them out. MOST of them NEVER trying to "defend" but rather to enlighten. But it seems that that just doesn't go over well with some. Why bother muddying the waters with fact when you can put her on trial for all crimes.
    Last edited by horsenut93136; Jan. 22, 2013 at 07:19 PM. Reason: typo



  2. #4242
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    The truth will set you free...
    If that worked in real life it's possible there might even be peace in the Middle East and the internets would be a much more rational place. Human nature lets us see the world not as it is, but as we are.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #4243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    I guess the bottom line Laurie , DMK, etc is WHY defend her at all? Years ago people who have equal respect in the business warned of something being NQR and over the last say 6 years using the number you've quoted the % of poor business issues and poor horse care has been on a steady rise.

    Why defend her at all ? Do you think the picture of the starved mare .. or where her in laws were being housed ..or the money she to owes god knows who at this point deserve a defense ?

    If anything Laurie the very fact that her quasii ponzi scheme has degraded to the point that even people like yourself who at one time was a business associate and a stalwart defender have been left holding the tab should be enough to just let the defending go.

    She is a smart women who had/has nice stallions and nice mares and by all accounts had all the pieces to make a really successful mark in the business. It was her choices and actions that have caused her decent into the current. None of it is defensible.

    The rest of the arguing back and forth is just trying to pick fly shit out of the pepper.
    Thank you Lynwood! I don't know DMKs history, I do know Lauriep's with GFF. What IS there to defend ? How short are all your memories? The joy of the Internet is that the facts were coming out years ago. All caught in the immortality of the Internet. Then things got really awful, not just sorta kinda awful!
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4244
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    Lots of people get burned in this type of situation and many simialr situations. Those people often have money to spend, but they get tired of all the *problems*.

    Whatever the issues are, I do think it is important to find reasonable methoods of putting a stop to things like this situation.

    I don't think that is undable, but it does need some ideas and thinking through.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #4245
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    It's discouraging to see the incredible "splitting of hairs" on every single subject, every single opinion of others' posts and personal quibbling and attacks on motives for posting that has taken this thread "way out there". In fact, it's way beyond me and is really quite sad, at least for me to read.

    The direction this has gone has confirmed that many horse people are control freaks and uber competitive -- and that's okay if the best, EDUCATED interest of the horses (and also mentor owners who may not be that experienced in "breeding"), are always first.

    But get to the low level of having to confirm (by validation by others) to always be "right" and try to take others down to in the process, often by "speculation" does not do the horse industry proud -- whether one is a "professional" or a "hobbyist".

    That is what it has turned into.

    Yes to a poster a few pages back...this makes the GOV/IRS "wars" look like child's play (for those us that remember it...) But that was about registering horses and approvals as the ISR and GOV worked out their corporate war for control of the Oldenburg registry here in the U.S. and the brand.

    In that case, the war wasn't about horse abuse, their welfare and fraud, which in my mind, is much more important.

    Most of the well respected breeders left this thread a LONG time back as we watch this play out among those who just want to tarnish others, just to feel they are "right"...the concern for the horses in question seems to have left the stage.

    Even Leg Up's desire to do the auction and the stallion owners who anti-upped to help with the potential costs to care for these horses (if more horses in JB's "care"--loosely said) will hit the "body-score" required to be seized legally ...and help the unsuspecting that were financially burned, was questioned. That's pretty darned sad.

    Egad.
    Last edited by sid; Jan. 22, 2013 at 08:50 PM. Reason: I cannot spell and I type to fast.


    25 members found this post helpful.

  6. #4246
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    Well said sid.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #4247
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Dogs View Post
    Thank you Lynwood! I don't know DMKs history, I do know Lauriep's with GFF. What IS there to defend ? How short are all your memories? The joy of the Internet is that the facts were coming out years ago. All caught in the immortality of the Internet. Then things got really awful, not just sorta kinda awful!

    Please. 3dogs, find the post where I say something complimentary about JB or excuse her behavior.

    I understand it might require a few synapses to separate that from my opinion on unfounded gossip and dragging other people's name through the mud with little basis in fact, and I can see where the necessary synapses are problematic. Still, miracles can happen.

    (The funniest thing about this whole affair is I do have a very strong opinion about several shiny black stallions with chrome. It is not complimentary, but I figure to each his own).

    I may have to apologize to that box of rocks after all. I know they are feeling shortchanged in the intellect argument at this point.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #4248
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    A question for lawyers:

    If a potential client comes to you asking you to take their case, how much research (beyond what the client tells you) do you do? If you know nothing or next to nothing about the client, but have some interest in the basic subject of their case, does it make a difference in your approach?
    Not much, if any research. Your profession is to help clients who come to you with a problem. If a client tells you that he has legal troubles and needs your help, you ask enough questions to determine if your client really has a legal problem (one for which the courts can grant relief).

    Unless the client is not getting his story straight or gives you outright reason to believe that what he says is not true, you accept the case.

    If later you find out that your client was not entirely truthful, your effort becomes one of mitigating damages.

    But he is still your client. It is not up to an attorney to help the opposing party. You are there to represent your client. Sometimes the best way to do it is with a vigorous approach, and sometimes it is trying to perorm damage control.

    It is not an attorney's job to prejudge. That is the job for the courts.

    Rule 11 reads like it is a big deal. But an attorney's behavior must be really egregious before he is sanctioned. It is one thing to judge behavior with the benefit of hindsight, and another to put yourself in the attorney's shoes at the time everything is happening.

    I do not ascribe impure motives to JB's attorney. She is doing the job she has been trained and paid to do: represent her client. Not only squeaky clean people wearing white robes and a halo deserve to have an attorney. Life is much muddier and more complex than that.

    Easy to be a monday morning quarterback. And irrelevant.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    14 members found this post helpful.

  9. #4249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    It is not an attorney's job to prejudge. That is the job for the courts.
    So I guess if an attorney was to represent someone in a USEF case, for example, a drug violation hearing like the Carolina Gold hearings going on, even though my gut reaction is "how could they represent that person and how could an attorney actually believe them if they had any equine background?!?!" a more mature and appropriate reaction is to think "everyone deserves fair representation, no matter how reprehensible and stupid a person is" and then just hope that the wheels of justice take care of the matter... and then I can giggle at an adverse verdict AND healthy legal fees? I mean if the USEF handed down any kind of serious penalties for that sort of thing, but I digress...
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #4250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    Wow, some of you just don't get it, or are lost in the reading for comprehension aspect of it all. Amazing!



    I have zero conspiracy theory, I just go by what I see. A woman who supposably purchased a stallion, but to date still doesnt have any information on him. This isn't heresay, she's posted about it on her FB page. I suppose instead of saying that she doesnt have any information, she could always update and say she does, but can't post about it.
    Now this is making me angry. HOW the HELL do you know that Ronda doesn't have any information about RS?!?!?!?!? What do you know that the rest of us do not know? Because she posted many days ago that she had no information, does that equate with not having information now? Are you a FB friend? Why don't you ask her?

    Oh right. You don't know her from Adam and she doesn't know you either.

    And WHY SHOULD she want to come onto a COTH thread which has disparaged and cast suspiction on her? Does she "owe" you that? Why do you believe that she has an obligation to talk to ANYONE? Much less the circle of swimming sharks, just looking for some chum to be thrown into the water, that some of the posters on this thread have become.

    She has a lot of information. But on a need to know basis, you are WAAAAY down the line. In fact you are not in line at all.

    Get of your high horse and give it a rest.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."


    21 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4251
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    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    It's discouraging to see the incredible "splitting of hairs" on every single subject, every single opinion of others' posts and personal quibbling and attacks on motives for posting that has taken this thread "way out there". In fact, it's way beyond me and is really quite sad, at least for me to read.

    The direction this has gone has confirmed that many horse people are control freaks and uber competitive -- and that's okay if the best, EDUCATED interest of the horses (and also mentor owners who may not be that experienced in "breeding"), are always first.

    But get to the low level of having to confirm (by validation by others) to always be "right" and try to take others down to in the process, often by "speculation" does not do the horse industry proud -- whether one is a "professional" or a "hobbyist".

    That is what it has turned into.

    Yes to a poster a few pages back...this makes the GOV/IRS "wars" look like child's play (for those us that remember it...) But that was about registering horses and approvals as the ISR and GOV worked out their corporate war for control of the Oldenburg registry here in the U.S. and the brand.

    In that case, the war wasn't about horse abuse, their welfare and fraud, which in my mind, is much more important.

    Most of the well respected breeders left this thread a LONG time back as we watch this play out among those who just want to tarnish others, just to feel they are "right"...the concern for the horses in question seems to have left the stage.

    Even Leg Up's desire to do the auction and the stallion owners who anti-upped to help with the potential costs to care for these horses (if more horses in JB's "care"--loosely said) will hit the "body-score" required to be seized legally ...and help the unsuspecting that were financially burned, was questioned. That's pretty darned sad.

    Egad.
    Spot on Sid. Thanks for saying what many of us have been thinking. This thread has become ugly and not helpful to anyone.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Now this is making me angry. HOW the HELL do you know that Ronda doesn't have any information about RS?!?!?!?!? What do you know that the rest of us do not know? Because she posted many days ago that she had no information, does that equate with not having information now? Are you a FB friend? Why don't you ask her?

    Oh right. You don't know her from Adam and she doesn't know you either.

    And WHY SHOULD she want to come onto a COTH thread which has disparaged and cast suspiction on her? Does she "owe" you that? Why do you believe that she has an obligation to talk to ANYONE? Much less the circle of swimming sharks, just looking for some chum to be thrown into the water, that some of the posters on this thread have become.

    She has a lot of information. But on a need to know basis, you are WAAAAY down the line. In fact you are not in line at all.

    Get of your high horse and give it a rest.
    Thank you.
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #4253
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    LH. Everyone does deserve representation.
    Sid. The horses welfare ...every horses welfare ...is the paramount concern for all!
    Those who have generously supported an auction for this particular cause are to be applauded and may LegUp continue to get support for any and all situations of seizure/ terrible situations etc of in danger equines.
    May those who have had mares go to GFF - may you find them or at least know they are safe.
    For those with contracts that went sour, may you have some resolution.

    The rest is all distraction. It is very old news that many many not paid for years, no one seems to know any of the facts re RS sale, so immaterial, don't know nor care re the VET who may or may not be in cahoots with GFF, nor the farrier who did not go to a business 101 class.

    But besides the horses, the former horse owners, the shafted breeders to be? I care that GFF be put out of business. And I add that some here enabled despite what known because of THEIR businesses. Silence, ignoring the facts, the prospect of "rewards" above and beyond the "norm"? (Cheap stallion fees, baby deals, mare swaps etc in this equine case). All the lure of a Bernie Madoff. Too good to be true!
    May those working torwards the ultimate goal, if sufficient proof can be found, to put GFF out of the equine business for good? Thank you
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4254
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    Heck, after being in practice in a small town for several years, I came to the conclusion that most people seeking counsel rarely if ever told the unvarnished truth. They have grievances against someone, are defending their pocketbooks, or are facing prison. So they will usually try and put themselves in the best light possible, even if it doesn't jibe with reality. So you take every client with a handful of salt and just do the best that you can--as LH said, to mitigate the damage the distorted reality can cause.

    Wills were about the only things that didn't involve egos.

    Question: is the horse world unusually corrupt? There are the drugging threads on HJ, many horror stories involved with horse sales, more than one story about breeders who fabricate in utero foals and starve horses, shamateurs on the eventing board, and rollkur and blue tongues in dressage. It's a bleak picture.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #4255
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    [QUOTE=horsenut93136;6796172]The picture of the mare made me sick. But if you are now saying this means that we can attribute ANYTHING to JB. Any act of cruelty etc. and just be ok with that?

    Well yes! Now that you mention it. The picture of that starved pregnant mare does prove to me that I do not know what act of cruelty I would not put past Jill. It does give credence to all other rumours and allegations on this ugly thread, and I will not be shamed or ridiculed into not trying to stop Jill.

    I suppose when you get in a mudpit with a pig you get dirty. Oh well, it is a dirty job, but someone has to do it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4256
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    So I guess if an attorney was to represent someone in a USEF case, for example, a drug violation hearing like the Carolina Gold hearings going on, even though my gut reaction is "how could they represent that person and how could an attorney actually believe them if they had any equine background?!?!" a more mature and appropriate reaction is to think "everyone deserves fair representation, no matter how reprehensible and stupid a person is" and then just hope that the wheels of justice take care of the matter... and then I can giggle at an adverse verdict AND healthy legal fees? I mean if the USEF handed down any kind of serious penalties for that sort of thing, but I digress...
    Thank you! There are a lot of people here who need to read this, AND read for comprehension.


    And no, I am NOT defending Burnell or her actions, she has a lot to answer for.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #4257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Now this is making me angry. HOW the HELL do you know that Ronda doesn't have any information about RS?!?!?!?!? What do you know that the rest of us do not know? Because she posted many days ago that she had no information, does that equate with not having information now? Are you a FB friend? Why don't you ask her?

    Oh right. You don't know her from Adam and she doesn't know you either.

    And WHY SHOULD she want to come onto a COTH thread which has disparaged and cast suspiction on her? Does she "owe" you that? Why do you believe that she has an obligation to talk to ANYONE? Much less the circle of swimming sharks, just looking for some chum to be thrown into the water, that some of the posters on this thread have become.

    She has a lot of information. But on a need to know basis, you are WAAAAY down the line. In fact you are not in line at all.

    Get of your high horse and give it a rest.
    Sounds like you need anger management...Just going by what I see, nothing more, nothing less. Just like everyone else. Never once did I mention she come on here. Not once. Curious as to how you know she has any information.

    You know whats funny? My first response about this stallion was actually in defense of Rhonda, when people were speculating a "cover up" of RS. It made more sense (to me) that the transaction just hadn't been completed. Nothing more, nothing less. However, if it makes you feel better to read more into it knock your socks off.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #4258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    Sounds like you need anger management...Just going by what I see, nothing more, nothing less. Just like everyone else. Never once did I mention she come on here. Not once. Curious as to how you know she has any information.
    Ya. Lordhelpus! How come you know stuff and Acertainsmile doesn't??? Don't you know that now puts you in cahoots with the enemy?

    FFS people! Why do you think you deserve to know about a person's private business dealings? Why would that person come on here and broadcast it when certain participants of this thread seem to exist only for the DRAAAAAMA and others have such thinly veiled agendas, it makes saying anything akin to walking in a mine field. All the little nudge nudge/wink wink postings about the 'truth' and the 'facts' coming out do not make them so.

    Why not let the MHS do it's job and the courts do theirs?
    Proud scar wearing member of the Bold, Banned and Bitchen clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #4259
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    Keep it up and the thread will be closed


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  20. #4260
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    As it probably should have been when innocent people started getting dragged into the court of CoTH opinion.
    Proud scar wearing member of the Bold, Banned and Bitchen clique


    4 members found this post helpful.

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