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  1. #4161
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    As an Animal Science graduate who did not persue a vet career; I can honestly say it's a SCARY sight to see "what" actually makes it into vet school. The majority of students who persue vet school (and I say the majority) are extremely book smart but have zero common sense when it comes to working with large animals ex: horses, cattle, sheep, etc. The majority of them have a dog or cat at home but have never touched a large animal.They can barely put a halter on a horse, they are extremely smart. They go to college and study the "science" of animals in a classroom and rarely actually learns the necessary animal skills to work with them.

    I went to school and graduated with an associates and a bachelors in A.S. because I had worked with large animals since I was very young and I wanted to make a career out of it. I have a lot of common sense large animal knowledge that I gathered frommy years and years of working with these animals. I was never good in a classroom or studying and I hated working in lab conditions. I was the type of student who'd much rather be in the barn getting my hands dirty. With that being said; I had no interest in vet school because I never had a 4.0 GPA and I was never going to make it in if I applied. When we were working in the barns, hands-on, with any animals I always found myself assisting the non-experienced pre-vet students with any and all of the activities they had to do. They were simply-put: clueless. I wasn't the only one to notice;it was an ongoing joke with my fellow classmates about the pre-vet students. Extremely book smart but no skills when it actually came to working with the animals they would one day be working on.

    The above story doesn't cover all vet students; there are a handful out there who have the entire package: brains and real-life working with animal skills.

    The fact remains and it's the honest truth: the majority of vet students or recent graduates are in-fact pretty "dumb"; you'd probably be scared for your horse's life if you witnessed their "skills"
    Is this referencing Jill being a nurse in living in squalor or the vet who did the welfare check? If the latter why assume she is incompetent? This is an inspection JB was prepared for... you can bet she had tons of hay and grain when she got there, thin horses blanketed and set out in the far pastures etc. She is no idiot and a master of smoke and mirrors. It takes a LOT to have horses determined bad enough for seizure (hence why Marin County has four thus far) and a LOT for a vet to say it as well if someone staged it to appear as if she is caring for them. And how can she call her a liar when she says their teeth need done, this is not her regular client. Again let's keep the focus on whom it belongs and not insulting the majority of "dumb" vet students and their "skills" sheesh. How do you feel about doctors?


    9 members found this post helpful.

  2. #4162
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    Jan. 13, 2003
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    Daisycutter87 - the lack of hands-on experience is very evident in the breeding side of the business. It would seem that these younger vets rely very heavily on ultra-sound machines. They just can't seem to palpate and "feel" what's going on inside the mare. While u/s machines do provide more information in some respects - I'd put my Vet's palpations and decades of experience up against any young Vet with an u/s machine. These young Vets also seem to feel mare owners have endless amounts of money to pay to keep doing u/s's. The statistics for Veterinary School show that the majority of students are female and the majority of students want to head into small animal practices. There are statistics to support that we are heading for a "crisis" with respect to a shortage of large animal Veterinarians. This just doesn't impact the horse industry but more significantly impacts the "food" side of agricultural - beef/swine/sheep/chickens, etc.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #4163
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    Feb. 28, 2006
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    I blame the BB being down on Scammer Sunday. Server overloaded with new members trying to join type stuff.

    I had a family member who did expert witness type stuff and I've had to make statements myself at work, both for disciplinary actions and accident reports. Generally you go with what you see right then or what you are asked about ocurred at such and such time. Adjudicators don't like editorial comments about previous incidents popping up, you have to word it very carefully if you try such a thing. Remember in a regular jury trial the defendant's past misdeeds are not admissable, you don't get to convict based on a pattern of bad behavior.

    I'm sure regardless of the vet's length of experience or actual animal experience she drew an accurate picture of what she was allowed to see, ie she was hired by JB and things were cherrypicked for her. I'll be interested to see whether JB was clever enough to hire her for the assessment and testimony in any action and therefore delay payment until after any action, and whether this vet gets stung too.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4164
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    May. 5, 2009
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    Location: Indiana, but my heart is in Zone II
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    One thing to remember about the vet checks, from experience in seizures with the SPCA in PA, the vet can not (and should not) come off as overly "emotional" in her assessment. Courts want facts, not emotions. The vet can not assume a thing and too much emotion may draw this out if the lawyers think she was swayed in any way. Just the facts presented in a non biased, objective way.

    The human society is on this. Unfortunately, some things have to play out, and hopefully not at further expense of the animals.

    I don't think villifying the vet (or farrier et al) is reasonable.
    Come to the dark side, we have cookies


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #4165
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    Even scarier is that a registered nurse would be so lax about sanitary conditions in the semen lab and so dismissive about EVA and other viral diseases that can be transmitted in semen.

    Dead chickens in bathtubs don't bother me as much. If I had killed a chicken for supper and needed a place for it to bleed out, a bathtub seems quite feasible.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #4166

    Default Auction Updates

    Auction Items Closing This Evening, Mon Jan 21 2013:
    (Note that auction closes at time indicated or approximately 5 minutes after last bid)

    21:10:00 EST 1 Pair of White Size 7.5 Roeckl Chester Riding Gloves
    21:25:00 EST Pre-Breeding Season Cooled Semen Evaluation
    21:40:00 EST 1 Trail of Painted Ponies - Starlight Figurine
    21:55:00 EST 1 breeding to the Oldenburg stallion, Skeptic
    22:10:00 EST 1 Breeding to the Holsteiner Stallion, Logan T

    Items We Have Added Today
    Custom Horse Portrait 8" x 10"

    Tally to Date/Time of Posting

    Date Total
    Winning
    Bids
    Payments Received to Date
    (Google Checkout, PayPal or other payment commissions not deducted)
    January 10-16, 2013 $15,379.00 $8,559
    January 17, 2013 $1,650.00 $1,650
    January 18, 2013 $1,750 $1,150
    January 19, 2013 $1,064.50 $480
    January 20, 2013 $1,250 $490
    TOTALS: $21,093.50 $12,329


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #4167
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    Jul. 14, 2004
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    Well the article that WAS THERE, isn't any longer. Interesting.
    Randee Beckman ~Otteridge Farm, LLC (http://on.fb.me/1iJEqvR)~ Marketing Manager - The Clothes Horse & Jennifer Oliver, Equine Insurance Specialist



  8. #4168
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    May. 20, 1999
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    Sorry for the site outages--the server hosting the www.chronofhorse.com site was experiencing some intermittent communication problems which should be resolved now.

    The article roll to the right of the forums is the "Most Popular" of the current articles on the main site. The most 'clicked-on' articles appear there; as such, they're usually the most recently posted. If you want to find a particular article, go to the Chronicle's main page, www.chronofhorse.com. Most news articles such as the Burnell case are posted in the "News" section. http://www.chronofhorse.com/article_landing/news

    Molly Sorge


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #4169
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaBred View Post
    Well the article that WAS THERE, isn't any longer. Interesting.
    This one?

    New Statement Released On Burnell Case

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...d-burnell-case


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #4170
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    Too bad! I'd like to have read that article, as I'm sure many others would.

    I hold no ill will to the vet, but I do have to say Daisycutter is probably quite right. This vet does have experience, though, and she was straightforward in her assessment. It's pretty obvious things were set up for her; I'm betting she was aware of that, too. But she can't state that.

    On the same type of note, I'm a nursing student. It's extremely frustrating to watch educated idiots get the accolades. I'm no slouch as a student (graduated with one degree in July Magna Cum Laude), but the three (3!!!) B grades I received (two in French, one in A&P II) out of all the other courses I have taken (everything from all the English Comp and History classes...my degree is in History...to biology sciences and math through College Algebra. Many of those classes were shortened or were ones I had to miss 2-3 weeks for military orders and travel) are A's. That left me with a GPA of 3.85, which was not good enough for the two nursing schools closest to me. They only accepted those with 4.0 GPAs...and people wonder why so many nurses aren't clinically competent? I would not say it's the majority, but maybe half.

    Jill, however, is obviously a "special" case. And I shudder to imagine what her patients may have been exposed to because of her.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4171
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    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirginiaBred View Post
    Well the article that WAS THERE, isn't any longer. Interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    This one?

    New Statement Released On Burnell Case

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...d-burnell-case
    So many conspiracies. So little time.

    Let me see if I can keep count.

    The attorney hired to represent JB is obviously violating every ethical code known to humanity, never mind that pesky right to representation thing.

    The farrier who came out to trim the feet is an enabler of the first order by not having receipts handy.

    The vet who issued the health certificate for RS (before he was injured) should be raked over the coals because I guess that horse should have stayed in his muddy, shelterless pipe corral.

    The vet retained by counsel to conduct an exam - who used almost to the word - the UK Henneke scale guidance is clearly on a campaign to help JB keep her horses. Or she's incompetent. I haven't sorted that one out yet. But whatever she's done is outrageous <stamps feet>

    Anyone who purchased a horse from JB is obviously just helping in the cover up. I'm only shocked that those who purchased semen and have 2012 or upcoming 2013 foals haven't been drug into this yet, but you gave her money. You are probably the worst of them all. Be ashamed.

    Am I missing anyone? Oh yes, Some random trainer. Other than to note he really has nothing to do with JB, he can still be drug into this thread. Awesome. Wait! How about DeNemethy? I mean he's dead, but seriously folks, are we really that picky about facts anymore?

    Can somebody please track down the vendors who sold her hay and grain and even the water so we can get this witch hunt fully up to speed? I mean talk about enabling. Let's get right to the source!

    Seriously, JB is most likely not the mentally well-est person in the room, but when I read the stunning display of rationality and intellect (or lack thereof) in some of these posts, she is surely not alone. I mean either that, or there is a bunch of posters who give a box of rocks a run for its money in the IQ department.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    32 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4172
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    Dec. 14, 2007
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    426

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    [QUOTE=vineyridge;6792982]Even scarier is that a registered nurse would be so lax about sanitary conditions in the semen lab and so dismissive about EVA and other viral diseases that can be transmitted in semen

    Someone from Vermont responded to one of the online news articles that she had gone to GFF for one day to look into working there. She observed that Jill used the same dirty needle with no alcohol swab to dope up about 4 mares before she attempted to move them somewhere even though they were acting fine. She also observed that a foal about to be shipped to a new owner was in a paddock with other foals with active herpes warts.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #4173
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    Dec. 12, 2007
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    Stuck in a stall
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renascence View Post
    Someone from Vermont responded to one of the online news articles that she had gone to GFF for one day to look into working there. ...She also observed that a foal about to be shipped to a new owner was in a paddock with other foals with active herpes warts.
    Aside from the fact that someone commenting online in a VT newspaper is considered an expert witness in this case, did the RN take tissue samples from those warts, which she said were herpes? Horse warts being papilloma virus, not herpes, plus self limiting and all that nonsense, it sounds like she must have found something very special.

    I'm super impressed that posters are no longer vilifying the individual vet who examined Burnell's horse, and have moved on to vilifying the entire veterinary profession as a bunch of inexperienced, no horse experience, egghead idiots. Idiots who are so incompetent, they have to use new-fangled machinery like ultrasounds instead of their hands and divining rods and owl scat and other time honored techniques. I mean, one poster has met every vet student, and they're -all- ignorant!
    "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."


    14 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4174
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    Aug. 21, 2012
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    I was reffering to the "majority"of vet students I came in contact with; not all. I do have quite a few friends who are now veterinarians and they all have a very extensive large animal background. I posted in reply to another post regarding the lack of knowledge from the vet who made the statement. Somehow I didn't "quote" the post properly. I'm just finding it hard to believe that a competent "veterinarian" could write the GFF horses' issues off as "teeth problems" when not one horse was physically touched by the vet. I seriously hope that Marin County is siccessful in their pursuit but this is starting to look like your typical California State Court result. I'm still waiting patiently to hear some news from the human society on where they are going to go from here. Carry on-



  15. #4175
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    This! - Thank you DMK!


    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    So many conspiracies. So little time.

    Let me see if I can keep count.

    The attorney hired to represent JB is obviously violating every ethical code known to humanity, never mind that pesky right to representation thing.

    The farrier who came out to trim the feet is an enabler of the first order by not having receipts handy.

    The vet who issued the health certificate for RS (before he was injured) should be raked over the coals because I guess that horse should have stayed in his muddy, shelterless pipe corral.

    The vet retained by counsel to conduct an exam - who used almost to the word - the UK Henneke scale guidance is clearly on a campaign to help JB keep her horses. Or she's incompetent. I haven't sorted that one out yet. But whatever she's done is outrageous <stamps feet>

    Anyone who purchased a horse from JB is obviously just helping in the cover up. I'm only shocked that those who purchased semen and have 2012 or upcoming 2013 foals haven't been drug into this yet, but you gave her money. You are probably the worst of them all. Be ashamed.

    Am I missing anyone? Oh yes, Some random trainer. Other than to note he really has nothing to do with JB, he can still be drug into this thread. Awesome. Wait! How about DeNemethy? I mean he's dead, but seriously folks, are we really that picky about facts anymore?

    Can somebody please track down the vendors who sold her hay and grain and even the water so we can get this witch hunt fully up to speed? I mean talk about enabling. Let's get right to the source!

    Seriously, JB is most likely not the mentally well-est person in the room, but when I read the stunning display of rationality and intellect (or lack thereof) in some of these posts, she is surely not alone. I mean either that, or there is a bunch of posters who give a box of rocks a run for its money in the IQ department.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    Too bad! I'd like to have read that article, as I'm sure many others would.

    I hold no ill will to the vet, but I do have to say Daisycutter is probably quite right. This vet does have experience, though, and she was straightforward in her assessment. It's pretty obvious things were set up for her; I'm betting she was aware of that, too. But she can't state that.

    On the same type of note, I'm a nursing student. It's extremely frustrating to watch educated idiots get the accolades. I'm no slouch as a student (graduated with one degree in July Magna Cum Laude), but the three (3!!!) B grades I received (two in French, one in A&P II) out of all the other courses I have taken (everything from all the English Comp and History classes...my degree is in History...to biology sciences and math through College Algebra. Many of those classes were shortened or were ones I had to miss 2-3 weeks for military orders and travel) are A's. That left me with a GPA of 3.85, which was not good enough for the two nursing schools closest to me. They only accepted those with 4.0 GPAs...and people wonder why so many nurses aren't clinically competent? I would not say it's the majority, but maybe half.

    Jill, however, is obviously a "special" case. And I shudder to imagine what her patients may have been exposed to because of her.
    Do MOT sell Jill's intelligence short. She is very, very intelligent. How she uses her intelligence, or what overrides it, is her problem. But she is not stupid.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #4177
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    *Smart* would be coming up with a system that would give the end result that Jill Burnell would be banned for life from profiting from horses. Period.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #4178
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    Do MOT sell Jill's intelligence short. She is very, very intelligent. How she uses her intelligence, or what overrides it, is her problem. But she is not stupid.
    Which is exactly what I meant. She is very clearly extremely intelligent. She is book smart, not people smart or friendly (in terms of care. She is people smart only in terms of manipulation). You got my point perfectly!
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique



  19. #4179
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    Dec. 16, 2012
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    This snotty attitude is why vets LOVE working with animal science majors.


    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    I was reffering to the "majority"of vet students I came in contact with; not all. I do have quite a few friends who are now veterinarians and they all have a very extensive large animal background. I posted in reply to another post regarding the lack of knowledge from the vet who made the statement. Somehow I didn't "quote" the post properly. I'm just finding it hard to believe that a competent "veterinarian" could write the GFF horses' issues off as "teeth problems" when not one horse was physically touched by the vet. I seriously hope that Marin County is siccessful in their pursuit but this is starting to look like your typical California State Court result. I'm still waiting patiently to hear some news from the human society on where they are going to go from here. Carry on-


    8 members found this post helpful.

  20. #4180
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    Dec. 16, 2012
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    Oh wait, THIS is why vets love working with animal science majors. Quoted the wrong post. Sounds like sour grapes re not getting into vet school to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    As an Animal Science graduate who did not persue a vet career; I can honestly say it's a SCARY sight to see "what" actually makes it into vet school. The majority of students who persue vet school (and I say the majority) are extremely book smart but have zero common sense when it comes to working with large animals ex: horses, cattle, sheep, etc. The majority of them have a dog or cat at home but have never touched a large animal.They can barely put a halter on a horse, they are extremely smart. They go to college and study the "science" of animals in a classroom and rarely actually learns the necessary animal skills to work with them.

    I went to school and graduated with an associates and a bachelors in A.S. because I had worked with large animals since I was very young and I wanted to make a career out of it. I have a lot of common sense large animal knowledge that I gathered frommy years and years of working with these animals. I was never good in a classroom or studying and I hated working in lab conditions. I was the type of student who'd much rather be in the barn getting my hands dirty. With that being said; I had no interest in vet school because I never had a 4.0 GPA and I was never going to make it in if I applied. When we were working in the barns, hands-on, with any animals I always found myself assisting the non-experienced pre-vet students with any and all of the activities they had to do. They were simply-put: clueless. I wasn't the only one to notice;it was an ongoing joke with my fellow classmates about the pre-vet students. Extremely book smart but no skills when it actually came to working with the animals they would one day be working on.

    The above story doesn't cover all vet students; there are a handful out there who have the entire package: brains and real-life working with animal skills.

    The fact remains and it's the honest truth: the majority of vet students or recent graduates are in-fact pretty "dumb"; you'd probably be scared for your horse's life if you witnessed their "skills"


    10 members found this post helpful.

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