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  1. #4021
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2012
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    157

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    Let's be realistic here and say it is quite unlikely that teeth are the culprit for a hrose being so thin that the localanimal control had to seize them. It doesn't take much other than quality feed to keep a horse healthy, shiney and in relatively good weight. Quality of forage is everything and lets be honest with ourselves and look at the big picture: we know how Jill Burnell lives, we've seen the pictures of her previous house, we've seen how her dogs and horses are currently living.

    It's not exactly pretty and it's not what we should be expecting from someone who paints a picture to the industry that she's operating a stand-up breeding operation of top quality warmbloods. Because of the reputation she's created for herself; it's highly unlikely that she is doing "well" financially in her business and therefore it's highly, highly unlikely that the horses are recieving the quality feed and care they should be recieving. Actually; we already have proof of that with the condition of the horses who were siezed.

    We already know there is no buildings on the property and therfore there is no dry storage for grain or hay. This leads me to the conclusion that it's going to require a LOT of work just to physically bring feed to the horses in the amount and quality that they require to stay in good condition. Because of this excessive amount of work; this leads me to believe that the horses are not recieving adequate care and feed to maintain body condition.

    I'm not one to jump to conclusions but I can see her trucking in the cheapest hay/round bales she can find and setting them in paddocks to rot and get rained on for weeks until it's been "consumed". We all know that horses are not cattle; they are finicky about hay quality and they will not maintain body condition on rotten, straw-like, or rain-soaked hay that's been sitting outside in a feeder for weeks. Horses, especially warmbloods (in my experience) would much rather not eat than attempt to consume less than stellar quality forage with zero nutritional quality at all.

    In addition, forage hay is only as nutritional as the soil it is in grown in. If a soil is not regularly maintained; the forage is going to lack the nutrients in the soil. In our part of the country;the soil is severely lacking selenium which is one major nutrient missing in the hay (which must be supplimented for elsewhere). Hay, especially low quality or mediocre quality (we all can see that Jill is not spending the money to buy quality stuff), is not a sufficent source of nutrients for a horse, especially a warmblood, to sustain off of. A grain is a necessity to make up for what is lacking and adds the necessary energies needed to sustain body condition for a horse of that size. This is much more than a "teeth" issue.

    There has been many personal complaints from buyers, visitors to her farm, etc about the care her animals recieve. One look at the pictures of her house/lab/etc is a major clue into how Jill operates; there is no emotional attachments to her broodmares or stallions. They are machines for her to make major income off of inflated prices for foals and offspring because of other's success in the showring with her stallions' offpspring. It's like a puppy mill for top quality show horses (thats the only comparison I have right now).

    She does not care about her lab cleanliness or the fact that she put many, many mares at risk for infections and disease; the only thing she cared about was the fact that she was able to collect the product; process it with little investment and care, and collect the huge stud fee to profit from. If she actually cared about the customer and their mare; we all know her lab and the conditions of her stallions would not be in the condition notedmy photographs.

    Same goes for the foals: personal accounts from buyers who have recieved foals/horses in poor health, extremely lacking nutrients and quality care, became sick upon arrival- these accounts from buyers are numerous (some have been posted here). In all reality; do you think, judging by everything we know right now) that she really cares about the broodmares she has or the foals they produce every year? Like I noted above; lets look at how puppy mill's operate and look at how many comparisons we have here. The only thing she cares about is keeping it alive until she can collect an astronimical sales price for it and move it along. Then she profits from the success that the new owner's have after all of the work they put into the animal to get it on the right track and into the show ring.

    Jill Burnell has NOT become well-known and developed a profitable (but shady) business because she, herself, grew the foals, trained them, conditioned them, and showed them at the shows. She profited from everyone else's success with foals by her stallions and she did this through stealing professional pictures and illegally posting them all over her websites for her own profits (and not removing them when requested multiple times).

    The entire scenario is really sad and when I see how her business is currently being operated (photographic evidence) I can't help but shake my head in absolute dispicable shame. My heart aches for those horses because in all honesty; she does not care, and she fails to realize and care about the type of quality animals living under her care. The photo of the dogs makes me cringe with anger. Why wern't the dogs removed from the property?

    It's sad stuff but everyone, including Marin Humane needs to, hopefully, get their ducks in a row and be ready to state their case. Going over the details, even as much as the nutritional stuff I went over above, is a necessity. Non-animal folks really don't have the knowledge for that type of information and what it takes in care to maintain proper, acceptable body condition and this is why; when in a court of law for these cases; all of the bases need to be covered to educate and strain the importance of quality care. Horses don't need to live in a million dollar barn with 20 grooms, daily baths, and 50.00 bales of hay to recieve quality care; that's not the point; at all.

    Any person owning horses should have the above knowledge to properly care for the animals you own; this isn't rocket science: it's the basic guidelines for caring for livestock. If you can't follow those details; then you shouldn't own animals: you're not caring for them the way that's necessary for them to LIVE. That is the bottom line.


    16 members found this post helpful.

  2. #4022
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    13,811

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    Quote Originally Posted by TKR View Post
    This is such a baffling situation to me -- apparently, this woman -- Jill Burnell - had sufficient funds to buy and import several stallions, advertise and show some of them, buy mares and then she just drops the ball and lets them starve? Is she a headcase or what? Why would she invest in all of this and let it go so far south? Is she now broke? I know that's all personal questions, but the condition of the horses and the history (that I know) just beg the questions. Carry on!
    PennyG
    There is this thing called getting in over your head. Clearly this woman has never known how to stop or the line when a good thing becomes an issue.

    She is more than willing to defraud people to get what she wants, that is how the showing and buying and such works. When the house of cards start to fall and you can not get your feed and training and such for free anymore then the issues start.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #4023
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2013
    Location
    North Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Someone who knows how to stack bales can get a ton of hay on a pick up. (Amazing but true).

    That is 2000#. MY horses get 20 - 25 pounds of hay a day (plus feed and supplements). Say JB's horses are getting 20 pounds each/day x 30 horses = 600 pounds a day are being fed. At that rate, the hay will be gone in 3.33 days.

    If JB is feeding only 10 pounds of hay/day (oh my, it makes me sad to even type those words), that means the hay will last a week. Please, someone report back how soon more hay is delivered.....

    I am also questioning that she is feeding alfalfa hay. No way can horses who are that malnourished process such a rich type of hay. It would be like giving a starving man a full roast beef dinner with a rich desert. It would go right through them and give then terrible diarrhea (sp?). Orchard grass or timothy would be more appropriate.

    If the horses are NOT getting alfalfa, but a medium rich hay more suited to their precarious condition, then whoever reported the truck contained alfalfa (a) is not a horseperson, or (b) is not reporting accurately for some other reason.
    The horses were being fed alfalfa when I was there. We knew that in October when we were there that the 'roads' would not allow for hay to be brought in once the rain started. We were even questioning if she would be able to push a wheelbarrow around the property.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4024

    Default Auction Updates

    Auction Items Closing This Evening, Fri Jan 18 2013:
    (Note that auction closes at time indicated or approximately 5 minutes after last bid)

    21:10:00 EST 1 Custom Decorated Horse Shoe
    21:25:00 EST 1 Breeding to the KWPN stallion, Palladio
    21:40:00 EST 1 breeding to the Welsh stallion, Fox Cry Rose Cufflinks
    21:55:00 EST 1 Breeding to the German Riding Pony stallion, Duke of Clarence
    22:10:00 EST 1 breeding to the Welsh Sec A Stallion, Heavenly Final Revelation


    Items We Have Added Today
    Custom Equine or Canine Pencil Portrait
    Chinese Treasure Giant Panda print. by Charles Frace
    2 Lessons with Heather Bailey or John Strassburger of Phoenix Farm

    Tally to Date/Time of Posting

    Date Total
    Winning
    Bids
    Payments Received to Date
    (Google Checkout, PayPal or other payment commissions not deducted)
    January 10, 2013 $2,124.00 $1,524
    January 11, 2013 $2,110.00 $910
    January 12, 2013 $1,805.00 $745
    January 13, 2013 $1,755.00 $990
    January 14, 2013 $2,980.00 $1,730
    January 15, 2013 $1,290.00 $960
    January 16, 2013 $3,515.00 $400
    January 17, 2013 $1,650.00 $420
    TOTALS: $17,229.00 $7,679
    Last edited by Leg-Up; Jan. 18, 2013 at 11:29 AM. Reason: Link glitch


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #4025
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    13,811

    Default

    Leg-up, the links to the added today items are not working. Have they just not been added to the page yet?



  6. #4026
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
    Location
    Down on the Farm
    Posts
    3,059

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    Let's not forget that according to the vet she never actually touched any of these horses. So for that matter, never checked anyones teeth, pure speculation on her part and obviously JB admitted that she needed to pursue better dental care for her horses.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #4027

    Default

    They hadn't been added to the auction items - they're up now!!



  8. #4028
    Join Date
    Oct. 10, 2001
    Location
    West Coast of Canada
    Posts
    1,744

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    Did any of you read JB's blog that was posted awhile back about caring for foals? Did anyone else find it kind of creepy in a way that she was ranting about foals that arrived in poor condition, and how she could look after them better, yet here she is starving her own...

    Reading her blog made me wonder if she had some kind of reverse munchausen-by-proxy disorder... It just seemed twisted.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #4029
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 1999
    Location
    Rosehill, TX
    Posts
    7,088

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne View Post
    in that article - quoting Weems

    "It is an outrage," she said. "Romantic Star is very valuable breeding stallion, and now his career and his availability to that world is in jeopardy because of the great length that the humane society has gone to to absolutely trash the reputation of the Burnells in what we believe was an unfounded manner."



    no mention there of any sale of Romantic Star
    Nothing says "I love you" like a tractor. (Clydejumper)

    The reports states, “Elizabeth reported that she accidently put down this pony, ........, at the show.”


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #4030
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,831

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGray View Post
    in that article - quoting Weems

    "It is an outrage," she said. "Romantic Star is very valuable breeding stallion, and now his career and his availability to that world is in jeopardy because of the great length that the humane society has gone to to absolutely trash the reputation of the Burnells in what we believe was an unfounded manner."



    no mention there of any sale of Romantic Star
    Silly lawyer, Jill trashed her own reputation.
    You are what you dare.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4031
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,193

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    http://westwoodfarmsllc.com/WestWoodFarmsllc/Foals.html

    This farm has been having good luck with Jill. Hmmmmmm

    Purchased a 2012 inutero out of Pop Tart and the 2013 inutero out of Corlandia
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4032
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    13,811

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    Quote Originally Posted by GotGait View Post
    Silly lawyer, Jill trashed her own reputation.
    Silly you thinking little things like facts might get in the way of her lawyer trying to make her client look innocent.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #4033
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2013
    Posts
    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
    http://westwoodfarmsllc.com/WestWoodFarmsllc/Foals.html

    This farm has been having good luck with Jill. Hmmmmmm

    Purchased a 2012 inutero out of Pop Tart and the 2013 inutero out of Corlandia
    please try to not drag people who are presumed innocent into this. As several have pointed out, Jill never had Pop Tart and Corlandia was kept for lack of payment then sold, so she could not have sold the 2013 in utero.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4034
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,831

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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    Silly you thinking little things like facts might get in the way of her lawyer trying to make her client look innocent.
    Well, duh.
    You are what you dare.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #4035
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
    Location
    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
    Posts
    3,743

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    Quote Originally Posted by SGray View Post
    in that article - quoting Weems

    "It is an outrage," she said. "Romantic Star is very valuable breeding stallion, and now his career and his availability to that world is in jeopardy because of the great length that the humane society has gone to to absolutely trash the reputation of the Burnells in what we believe was an unfounded manner."


    no mention there of any sale of Romantic Star
    News Flash Mrs/ Mr. Weems The only jeopardy that Romantic Star is or was ever in was manifested by the hand of your client.

    Should he return to health and survive no thanks to Jill Burnell his value as a breeding animal should not be diminished.

    Jill put her own trash out for the world to see...not the MHS they just have the unpleasant job of picking it all up.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4036
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    3,787

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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterRider992 View Post
    Okay, I've gone through the document. There are 11 mares identified by same names or near enough as on Jill's broodmare list on her website. (Ambria, Annie, Debutante, Denay, EM Diamonette, Likide, Paisely, Porta Westfalica, Rose Excess, Terlina, Westy). Of these, 5 are noted as being pregnant, one as potentially pregnant, 2 are definitely not pregnant and with 3 it was not indicated as either way. There are an additional 6 mares who were not identified by the same names as on Jill's website. (Kalypso, Cookie, Bunny, Lola, Sis, Pumpkin). All are noted as not in foal except for one (Pumpkin) that was not noted as either pregnant or not. With the three seized mares, that makes 20 mares. Taking in account Pop Tart, Oiselle, and Grand Affair, there are still at least 11 mares whose location is unknown. Of course, this is assuming that Jill has not acquired more mares who are not on her website.

    Two BIG questions remain. Who are Kalypso, Cookie, Bunny, Lola, Sis, Pumpkin, Blackie and Nutsie? And where are Aloha, Cash Lake, Cinderella, Delilah, Hawai Du Moulin, Hot Purple, Laws of Nature, Lucky Karma, Marti, Metsonized, Mistletoe, Next Best Thing, Radieschen, Rain Time, Resist Me Not, Rio Vista, and The Rose Line???

    ETA: Thank you LaurieP for resolving the question of Corlandia and 24k!
    I know Radieschen !!!! There can be only one mare in that country with that name ! She is an Oldenburg mare and there is someone on this Forum who used to ride or won her. somehow we had contact - maybe because of the name or something else ! Poor mare - Her german breeder would be very angry and sad !
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2015: Likoto- Florencio - Prince Thatch; Lissaro - Frederico - Prince Thatch; Edward - Sandro Hit - Rouletto


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #4037
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    8,577

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nootka View Post
    http://westwoodfarmsllc.com/WestWoodFarmsllc/Foals.html

    This farm has been having good luck with Jill. Hmmmmmm

    Purchased a 2012 inutero out of Pop Tart and the 2013 inutero out of Corlandia
    Why is it that you all keep trying to drag innocent people into this mess of a thread??? Too little REAL information coming out, so you have to try to create scandal out of nothing? What are you doing, scouring the internet for ANY mention of Redwine, RS, anything that you might be able to make a snide remark about? Man, are your lives so desperate that the Jill drama isn't enough? I see you are from central FL. Got a vendetta against this particular farm that happens to also be in central FL?

    This kind of thing just further diminishes what little credibility is left on this thread. And that isn't much.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #4038
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    10,295

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    Originally Posted by Nootka
    http://westwoodfarmsllc.com/WestWoodFarmsllc/Foals.html

    This farm has been having good luck with Jill. Hmmmmmm

    Purchased a 2012 inutero out of Pop Tart and the 2013 inutero out of Corlandia
    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    Why is it that you all keep trying to drag innocent people into this mess of a thread??? Too little REAL information coming out, so you have to try to create scandal out of nothing? What are you doing, scouring the internet for ANY mention of Redwine, RS, anything that you might be able to make a snide remark about? Man, are your lives so desperate that the Jill drama isn't enough? I see you are from central FL. Got a vendetta against this particular farm that happens to also be in central FL?

    This kind of thing just further diminishes what little credibility is left on this thread. And that isn't much.
    I actually thought it was interesting information, considering the fact that Pop Tart was named a few pages back as having never been in JillB's possession. IOW, more fraud by JillB - selling an en utero foal from God know's what mare, and claiming it is out of a mare whose identity she stole. Perhaps those buyers should insist on parentage verification via DNA analysis - I'm betting they can join the long list of defrauded customers.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  19. #4039
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,193

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    Exactly Yankee!

    I thought it was interesting also. I never coated their name in mud or anything but wanted to show that there is no way possible they purchased these foals. Maybe they need a heads up about this thread in case there was wrong doing. How the heck can they decide if they don't know it exists? I committed no crime. Just putting more lies out there...

    Oh and by the way.. it is posted on her website plain as day. Apparently I need a cookie too.... but I am Batman not Sherlock Holmes.
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #4040
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    8,577

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    But I think it is up to the individual to decide if they want to be a part of this or not. Not to be dredged up by someone for whatever reason. Perhaps they are handling it on their own and don't care to have it shared here. Not the job of anyone here.

    If this is who I think it is, they know.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    5 members found this post helpful.

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