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  1. #3901
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    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    23,396

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    It bothers me that these horses will not be checked on every day, things could go downhill very quickly for the remaining horses.
    Do you know that they are not being checked? Has the humane society commented one way or another on if they are/are not following up and how often?

    Common sense would dictate that as an open case, they are monitoring the situation. As to how frequently, I have not seen anything said one way or another.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #3902
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2003
    Location
    Amish Country, PA
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    286

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    This is from the petition on RMHP. It really sounds like there were other horses perhaps in need or almost in need of seizure. Like the yearling?

    On December 27, 2012, Respondent's animal control officers carne onto my property
    without my consent or a warrant, and seized two horses, a stallion named Romantic Star and a
    chestnut mare named Pokey. At that time, Sgt. Michelle Rogers served me with the NOTICE
    SEIZURE OF ANIMAL(S) for the two horses that were seized and removed from my property
    that day, a true and correct copy of which is attached as Exhibit A.

    8. On December 27, 2012, Sgt. Rogers also served me with a NOTICE OF INTENT TO
    SEIZE ANIMAL(S) for a yearling named "Blaze", a true and correct copy of which is attached
    as Exhibit B.

    9. On January 4, 2013, Respondent's officer's returned and seized two more horses, both
    mares. Sgt. Michelle Rogers served me with a NOTICE SEIZURE OF ANIMAL(S) for the two
    mares that were seized and removed from my property that day, a true and correct copy of which
    is attached as Exhibit C. Respondent has seized four horses and has threatened to seize
    additional horses.
    "Hell, when I move my things go in boxes and I always make sure and bubble wrap my dog feces so it don't get broke." runwayz



  3. #3903
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2006
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    2,954

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Just when I get a warm fuzzy glow from reading your post, Dazed, my eyes move up one to the post above yours to Exhibit 3,256 why facts, critical thinking and common sense continue to be on the endangered list. But Conspiracy Theories ROCK, Dude!!!1!!1!
    Now now...it wouldn't be COTH with those things now would it?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #3904
    Join Date
    Jun. 9, 2003
    Location
    Alabama
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    5,481

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    This is such a baffling situation to me -- apparently, this woman -- Jill Burnell - had sufficient funds to buy and import several stallions, advertise and show some of them, buy mares and then she just drops the ball and lets them starve? Is she a headcase or what? Why would she invest in all of this and let it go so far south? Is she now broke? I know that's all personal questions, but the condition of the horses and the history (that I know) just beg the questions. Carry on!
    PennyG



  5. #3905
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    3,055

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Do you know that they are not being checked? Has the humane society commented one way or another on if they are/are not following up and how often?

    Common sense would dictate that as an open case, they are monitoring the situation. As to how frequently, I have not seen anything said one way or another.
    Yes, it was in one of the articles, stated that they would be out every other day. I'm suffering from the flu so my heads a little cloudy, but I'm sure I read it!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #3906
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    19,889

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    Well she didn't pay the fees associated with showing, she didn't pay the fees to the registries, she didn't pay the feed store, she didn't pay the vet, she didn't pay her LAWYERS etc. Makes it a little easier to see how it all happened.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #3907
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    2,691

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Do you know that they are not being checked? Has the humane society commented one way or another on if they are/are not following up and how often?

    Common sense would dictate that as an open case, they are monitoring the situation. As to how frequently, I have not seen anything said one way or another.

    Well it's obvious, all those that think there's something fishy going on ought to verify it for us by buying tickets to CA and going to see for themselves. They can tell the vets what they're doing wrong, check and see if the attorneys are on the up and up, look at the condition of the horses left behind, tell MHS how to go about caring for them, and generally take matters into their own hands.

    That's the only way any of this will be handled correctly, right?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #3908
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    So after seeing the pics of the mare I still find it quite hard to believe that with 12 horses having a 3 body score some noted to be VERY THIN that they are not in distress? I get Ms. Ellis was hired to do a job but I'm thinking I would have passed on that one!

    and 2 under blankets that can't be seen. I would hope that MHS can make it a requirement that they ARE seen before they are dead


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #3909
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2007
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    Down on the Farm
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    Would the article suffice? You guys are too much!! Here ya go, your're welcome.

    http://petaluma.patch.com/articles/h...photo-12998072

    Wagman said the Burnells remain in care of about 20 other horses that were of concern to MHS officials. Those officials are not visiting every day because of the amount of territory under their jurisdiction, Wagman said.



  10. #3910
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
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    3,618

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    So wait according to Jills own mandate http://www.ratemyhorsepro.com/equine...espondent.aspx

    Section 2) "2. I am an experienced horse owner and breeder and provide good care for the horses at my ranch. I pay close attention to their condition and ensure that they have adequate amounts of food and clean water, are blanketed as necessary and farrier and veterinarian care. I regularly have licensed veterinarians and farriers inspect and care tor the horses, and have them come to the property as needed if there appears to be a problem with any of the horses. I follow my veterinarian and farrier's advice on the proper care, treatment and feeding of the horses."
    and
    Section 10)
    "10. No lawful basis exists for the seizure of the horses. None of the horses are or were at risk
    or in distress due a failure to provide care. All of the horses are receiving and have been
    receiving adequate care. See Declaration of Veterinarian Der. Cheryl Ellis filed herewith and
    attached hereto as Exhibit D
    . See Declaration of farrier attached filed herewith and attached as
    Exhibit E."

    How with a straight face can she look at the chestnut mare and make that statement and how can her attorney allow her to present such a statement.

    Further more and lets be frank SEVERAL of the horses were scored as BS of 3 most of mares in foal were BS of 4 how is that alone not a problem.

    Dr.Ellis's own words "Cookie 4/5 year old mare BS=3 thin /verging on very thin"

    Sis 7/8 y/o BS=3 verging on very thin

    <--how is that not distress


    Every horse with an injury or poor body condition had a "story" very convenient. When a BS of 5 is your best score and most of the mares are 4's and 3's there is more then sufficient proof their is a PROBLEM.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    9 members found this post helpful.

  11. #3911
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    Feb. 13, 2007
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    She is clearly insane.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  12. #3912
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
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    Stuck in a stall
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    81

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    BCS 3 alone is not grounds for seizure pretty much anywhere in the country. At BCS horses still have adequate reserves to keep going. Plenty of athletic horses (cue COTHer pointing out that these horses are not athletes ) are BCS 4, endurance horses sometimes in the 3 range. So no, 3 - 4 is not seizure range.

    Dr. Ellis' statement counters a MHS investigator saying the pastured horses needed shoes, which leads me to believe MHS aren't the equine rescue experts some would claim.

    When is MHS going to give an accurate, non-lawyerly statement about the stallion's condition? Was his jaw broken, or not? Not that all jaw fractures are even the same degree of bad.
    "...it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #3913
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    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lame View Post
    BCS 3 alone is not grounds for seizure pretty much anywhere in the country.

    Dr. Ellis' statement counters a MHS investigator saying the pastured horses needed shoes, which leads me to believe MHS aren't the equine rescue experts some would claim.

    When is MHS going to give an accurate, non-lawyerly statement about the stallion's condition? Was his jaw broken, or not? Not that all jaw fractures are even the same degree of bad.
    Was wondering why the comment about pasture horses needing shoes as well. But maybe because their feet looked so bad?



  14. #3914
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    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dead Lame View Post
    BCS 3 alone is not grounds for seizure pretty much anywhere in the country. At BCS horses still have adequate reserves to keep going. Plenty of athletic horses (cue COTHer pointing out that these horses are not athletes ) are BCS 4, endurance horses sometimes in the 3 range. So no, 3 - 4 is not seizure range.


    Dr. Ellis' statement counters a MHS investigator saying the pastured horses needed shoes, which leads me to believe MHS aren't the equine rescue experts some would claim.

    When is MHS going to give an accurate, non-lawyerly statement about the stallion's condition? Was his jaw broken, or not? Not that all jaw fractures are even the same degree of bad.

    A body score is not a 3 when its followed up with "thin /verging on very thin"
    And your are right about "not athletes" comment they are breeding animals as to their foal or not in foal status was that word of mouth or were they all palpated ?

    What strikes me the most and it is not against Dr. Ellis is the repeated issues followed by the assumption that these were things that Jill would be able to remedy or was not refusing to do. She has horses ranging from one or two fair to many in poor body condition not including those already seized ...how is it reasonable to assume she will or has been adequately providing for them. She had not been up to this point and their condition clearly reflects that.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  15. #3915
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    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    Does ANY humane organization visit every day when only some of a group are seized?

    Genuine, non-snarky question. I don't know what protocol is, though I would guess that it varies by state, county, organization, and individual case.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #3916
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    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Does ANY humane organization visit every day when only some of a group are seized?

    Genuine, non-snarky question. I don't know what protocol is, though I would guess that it varies by state, county, organization, and individual case.
    There was a recent case in my county , attending veterinarian and overseeing animal control officer were doing weekly checks not to fall on the same day with no announcement of intent to visit needed for the first 30 days at least or until horses condition improved and owners sufficiently proved a change in husbandry and then subject to random check ins.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #3917
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2005
    Location
    CO
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    4,879

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    I read the entire document. I have a LOT of questions, but none can actually be answered here.

    The BCS-3 "thin, verging on very thin" and not being in distress bothers me greatly.

    The amount of animals at BCS-3 bothers me.

    The animals with blankets and "uncatchable" bothers me.

    The two stallions (presumably Aloha and Redwine) "moved off property to get out of the mud" bothers me (because I'm having a time believing they aren't actually being hidden)

    And just how in the world is JB paying for all that stuff she told the vet she has upgraded the property with, or the amount of care/feed/supplements/etc. she claimed. No mention of EVA vaccines. And where are all those feeds and supplements? Don't you think that's something the vet should have been able to see and confirm is actually being done for the horses?

    I could go on...

    I will give the benefit of the doubt about the feet because the evaluation occurred after everything came to a head and the four other horses were seized. The farrier very well could have worked on the herd's feet between that time and was stated as being there when the evaluation took place.

    But sooo many questions...
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    5 members found this post helpful.

  18. #3918
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    Feb. 14, 2008
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    326

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    There are 36 broodmares listed on her website. Of those, we know that at least Oiselle and Pop Tart are not actually in Jill's possession, as well as Devil's Sis and the other two mares who were seized. Is there any way we can harness COTH's superpowers to determine which broodmares are actually in her possession, and attempt to contact previous owners?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #3919
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    Dec. 19, 2005
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    No mystery she hustled her money makers Aloha and Redwine out of there to ensure they were not available to be seized should it come to that.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  20. #3920
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    Jan. 7, 2008
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    SoCal
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    ...interesting. That declaration begs the question of where is Redwine? Aloha? Federalist is the only stallion listed. Let's hope Jill refers to the old Radish mare as another name and that she's one of the ones in care elsewhere.

    Can anyone attach Declaration E -- the farrier's declaration? I can't seem to find it and I'm curious to see if she uses the same farrier as she used to. Thanks!



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