[saje]

So I've got a question.

All this money being raised for 3 or 4 seized horses. Has anybody here actually seen in the last 2 months, either in pictures or with their own eyes, the condition of these animals?

Because I'm sort of astonished at the fervor here for horses that, as far as I can tell, we have no real proof are in serious distress. I'm not saying they don't need to be out out JB's keeping - they CERTAINLY do! But I don't remember this level of fundraising for the seizure of groups starving horses that were clearly, graphically depicted.

I'm not saying that fundraising is bad, I think it's fabulous. I'm just sort of bemused by this whole auction deal.

[rodawn]

I have to agree with the others, it depends on what your contract says.

I would guess that the person who purchased is responsible as it is their horse. They could maybe then go after the barn owner for not providing adequate care.

Well, obviously it's in the Sales Contract. And wow, so you're all telling me that I'm the only person in the world who makes sure this IS in the Sales Contract? Really? Nobody else makes sure they have some coverage (besides insurance which is also a no-brainer)? If seller doesn't like that clause, I walk my cash out the door - because sometimes there can be accidents which can be due to negligence. FWIW- if you buy a horse at an auction, you are buying without Sales Contract and you are accepting what you see is what you get. Not even close to the same thing. I have only once bought a horse where I didn't have this put in a contract and that was my buckskin mare. I've been buying and selling horses for 35+ years, both in WB auction and person-to-person!


Anyway, back to the real topic at hand:

http://www.legup-auction.org/main

[VLF Sporthorses]

I am a Canadian Sport Horse breeder who purchased not one but two breedings to Redwine paid in full in good faith in 2010.(Have signed contract and money order receipt for those doubters out there) For two years I tried desperately to get semen from Jill and for two years I had no babies. She misrepresented herself and her farm with such beautifull websites and facebook pages. I am sure that I am one of a large amount of people who can tell the same or similar story. FRAUD!!!

It amazes me that this woman can steal money from people all over and put the health of these animals in jepordy. She has continued her illegal dealings(fraudulent contracts/taking money) from innocent clients for years with many of you standing watching and you still support her. When is enough, enough? When willl she be made to pay! How is it possible that she can accomplish all of this with no legal consiquences? Do you think you will still benefit from her friendship? Open your eyes!!!

Let's get these horses to a safer place and make this woman accountable for her actions.

[lauriep]

I am a Canadian Sport Horse breeder who purchased not one but two breedings to Redwine paid in full in good faith in 2010.(Have signed contract and money order receipt for those doubters out there) For two years I tried desperately to get semen from Jill and for two years I had no babies. She misrepresented herself and her farm with such beautifull websites and facebook pages. I am sure that I am one of a large amount of people who can tell the same or similar story. FRAUD!!!

It amazes me that this woman can steal money from people all over and put the health of these animals in jepordy. She has continued her illegal dealings(fraudulent contracts/taking money) from innocent clients for years with many of you standing watching and you still support her. When is enough, enough? When willl she be made to pay! How is it possible that she can accomplish all of this with no legal consiquences? Do you think you will still benefit from her friendship? Open your eyes!!!

Let's get these horses to a safer place and make this woman accountable for her actions.

So, you clearly have a legitimate problem, with paperwork to back it up. Have you filed any sort of claim against her? That has been a large part of this thread - those who have real, true claims, particularly of fraud, are the only ones who can get anything done. No one who doesn't have a real case can do anything to stop her through legal channels. Only through word of mouth. So, have you obtained a judgement?

[Kenike]

Saje, I think the fact three of the four are hospitalized at UC Davis is enough proof they were in extreme distress. But maybe that's just me...

[nycjumper]

I think Kenike the question is has anyone seen the horses (in person or via photo) or have any updates on them and what they are being treated for? I haven't seen any press releases besides saying they had been seized or photos, maybe I missed them? Genuine ?, no agenda.

[rodawn]

I think Kenike the question is has anyone seen the horses or have any updates on them and what they are being treated for? I haven't seen any press releases besides saying they had been seized or photos, maybe I missed them? Genuine ?, no agenda.

Again, the legal wranglings prohibit public information from being released.

I have several friends who are lawyers, both criminal and civil litigators, and what they've told me is that when they're prepping for a really big case where a lot is on the line for their clients, they very much keep all information as close to the vest as possible, and also they tell their clients NOT to release any information to the media. "No comment!!" They do NOT want their adversary knowing where the legal team is heading with regards to litigation tactics and the like.

Discuss what you will on this board, but all questions will most likely be met with silence until the dust settles in court! That's just my perspective and the little I know about legal/law anything. We just have to be patient, is all. It's hard, because we all love horses so much and want immediate resolution, but something as difficult as this will not have quick resolution, sorry to say.




http://www.leg-up.org/marin-county-f...tion-page.html

[Kenike]

What Rodawn said is pretty much where I was trying to go, but my brain is very much disconnected from intelligible thought today :-/
And I did take it as a genuine question :-)

[Crockpot]

Well, obviously it's in the Sales Contract. And wow, so you're all telling me that I'm the only person in the world who makes sure this IS in the Sales Contract? Really? Nobody else makes sure they have some coverage (besides insurance which is also a no-brainer)? If seller doesn't like that clause, I walk my cash out the door - because sometimes there can be accidents which can be due to negligence. FWIW- if you buy a horse at an auction, you are buying without Sales Contract and you are accepting what you see is what you get. Not even close to the same thing. I have only once bought a horse where I didn't have this put in a contract and that was my buckskin mare. I've been buying and selling horses for 35+ years, both in WB auction and person-to-person!

Sales contracts vary. Sometimes ownership changes hands and buyer becomes boarder until such time as buyer can collect horse. It depends on the contract .

If you want to keep the thread on topic , maybe stop making these types of statements.

[VLF Sporthorses]

Unless you are on this thread 24 hours a day any pertinent information gets lost in the... contract this/ contract that. Alot of people on here argueing ridiculous points. Like you say, have claim and paper work to back it up...then get it together. This stands for leased, owned and borrowed horses. If you sent a horse to her or money you must have a paper trail of somesort. If you have a legitimate claim you obviously have something to say. If you want to follow this thread all the more power to ya! Let's stick with the facts and the topics that matter. If we don't any good information gets lost somewhere in the 180 some pages..

With that said if anyone has the current information (seeings how I am from Canada) on how or where to get the necessary paper work please post...

[lauriep]

You asked how she was able to keep on as long as she has. I answered it is because not enough people with legitimate, documentable cases have pursued them. You will need to contact a lawyer in Canada, preferably with equine experience, but not mandatory, and find out how to proceed. Each state down here has different laws/procedures, so what you have to do coming from Canada, you will have to research.

[RedMare01]

I would PM Daventry on this board. She is in Canada and can point you to the appropriate contact.

[tarynls]

So I've got a question.

All this money being raised for 3 or 4 seized horses. Has anybody here actually seen in the last 2 months, either in pictures or with their own eyes, the condition of these animals?

Because I'm sort of astonished at the fervor here for horses that, as far as I can tell, we have no real proof are in serious distress. I'm not saying they don't need to be out out JB's keeping - they CERTAINLY do! But I don't remember this level of fundraising for the seizure of groups starving horses that were clearly, graphically depicted.

I'm not saying that fundraising is bad, I think it's fabulous. I'm just sort of bemused by this whole auction deal.

I understand what you're saying - and I have no dog in this fight (I own a gelding & I'm clear across the country) - but despite whether anyone has recently seen the seized horses, in person or in photos, the Humane Society won't seize animals unless there is a HUGE problem.

I think the auction is great, and I think the fervor (auction, donations) is wonderful. I also think the reason for the fervor, outrage, etc... is because so many people have been wronged by JB in ways an ethical mare owner (or new foal owner for those purchased in-utero) is beyond comprehension. The photos in the original post speak volumes - filthy "lab" in the kitchen, feces in a bathtub... ICK.

It is amazing the way everyone has pulled together for a good cause (the cause being supporting the horses and MHS).

I think if other starving horses had the nationwide exposure that JB's horses did, the same would/could be done for them. JMHO.

Let's help the horses & MHS. Bid on the auction & hopefully all of JB's horses will find a soft landing!

[Laurierace]

There are undoubtedly more graphic and horrific humane issues out there to which we could dedicate our resources and effort but I feel like this is sort of taking care of our own. Many of us right here on this board were wronged financially by Jill Burnell and her evil empire and it is only fitting that we step up to help put an end to it. Sort of like giving money to the homeless shelter in your neighborhood rather than donating to starving kids in Africa. We are all her victims in one way or another either directly or as breeder's in the same industry. There by the grace of God go I, I am so thankful there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[Kinsella]

I have an auction question... Is it wrong to be rooting for a certain person to win an item because you really want an excuse to visit them or where they live? No, I won't say who!

[sid]

Of course not..... Hope your buddy wins.

[FalseImpression]

VLF Sporthorses, please pm Daventry and she will direct you to the right people. There are also a number of SOs who have said they would make good on valid contracts not honoured by JB. But please, follow through and report your situation. I was amazed and a bit disgusted at the lack of interest and response to Daventry's original post on EMG. ie please do not bother us with this... more or less.
Good luck, but do act!

[Joanne]

......I was amazed and a bit disgusted at the lack of interest and response to Daventry's original post on EMG. ie please do not bother us with this... more or less.
Good luck, but do act!

What is EMG?

[FalseImpression]

What is EMG?

A Canadian forum. Daventry made two posts regarding the situation but either no Canadian were victims or nobody cared!

[Daventry]

I think Kenike the question is has anyone seen the horses (in person or via photo) or have any updates on them and what they are being treated for? I haven't seen any press releases besides saying they had been seized or photos, maybe I missed them? Genuine ?, no agenda.

Patience