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  1. #3461
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    NJRider, I'm not doubting that's what the new owner was told, nor that shipping was arranged. On the contrary! I am simply doubting she was told the truth of HOW it all came together.

    Owners pull blood, fill out the coggins paperwork (including markings), and drop it all off at the vet's office all the time (NOT saying I necessarily agree with that method, nor do I do it). There is any number of theories that can be tossed for the health certificate, I won't go there.

    I just sincerely doubt Jill let any vet on her property, even with the new owner paying for it. And she has a history with shippers, too...so that could have been interesting. Could have.

    I am on the buyer's side here.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #3462
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    It think it is related to whether a vet actually examined the horse about 10 days before the seizure and what the condition was of the horse at that time. If the horse was in poor condition then, perhaps any inappropriate actions by either the vet or JB will be added to the mix as well.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3463
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenike View Post
    Owners pull blood, fill out the coggins paperwork (including markings), and drop it all off at the vet's office all the time (NOT saying I necessarily agree with that method, nor do I do it). There is any number of theories that can be tossed for the health certificate, I won't go there.
    Holy crap, seriously? I have NEVER known a vet that would let me do that! Well, maybe I know some, but I've never used one that would let me...

    Sorry, back on topic...
    Not all who wander are lost.

    Ralando II


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  4. #3464
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    There is a pattern on COTH that we’ve all seen hundreds of times over the years… where someone raises a legitimate concern, and gets shot down (and attacked) by a bunch of groupies and/or aliases of the one at the center of the concern. Some of these protective groupies are well meaning, but mis-informed.

    Many posters on this thread have commented that they tried to call attention to the mess before it got so far out of hand, and they were attacked and maligned for doing so.

    I think that there are legitimate concerns about some of these details, and given the track record of one of the parties involved… it seems appropriate to question things. I don’t think anyone has anything but good intentions, to see that things move in a good direction for the horses involved, and for all of the parties involved, including the creditors who are legitimately owed money from the dispersal of assets. And anyone reading this thread knows that there are credible reports of judgments against one of the parties here.

    Quote Originally Posted by NJRider View Post
    This is the wording with the dates from the new SO's page: On December 19th the vet came out to pull blood for coggins, do paperwork for the transport health certificate and administer a rabies shot. Shipping through Brook Ledge Transportation was arranged with pick-up scheduled for December 28.

    I doubt the shipping would have been arranged without these needed papers in hand, but who knows.
    We have shipped stallions, and have a bit of experience with the topic (but do not claim to be experts here). I am a bit surprised that one could get a vet out to do a health certificate and have the results back in time to schedule transport…. in such a brief period of time. Horse owners in Marin County, and / or Kathy and Jos would have more info... but it does seem rather quick.


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  5. #3465
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    Never had a positive Coggins and a stallion could be on the road in 24 hrs as that is all it takes to get blood results back for the shipper. One sets up shipping often before doing the coggins as it is not likely to be positive.
    www.immunallusa.com
    www.rainbowequus.com Home of stallions that actually produced champion hunter, jumper and dressage offspring and now also champion eventers


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  6. #3466
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    I have seen both, vets that if they know you and generally know the horse will fill out a HC without an examination. That being said, I've also had a horse examined for a HC to ship out of state and recieved the HC on the spot. Of course these horses already had a current negative coggins and vaccination record.


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  7. #3467
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    Could someone link to where they read that RS has a broken jaw? Just curious as I can't seem to find it.


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  8. #3468

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    The Romantic Star sale IS on the up and up, so leave that subject and Ronda alone and quit with the muckraking so you don't scare other legitimate homes for the horses away.
    And you know this how? What source you been getting YOUR information from?? Your posts are suspect. As I recall, you also sang praises about Jill's place when you were out there last spring. Methinks perhaps it is self-ingratiating. A way to hopefully make sure you were one that "did" get paid? Hmmm? No, lets DO keep the subject of Ronda at the forefront of this discussion right where she probably belongs.

    Here's how I see it.

    There are LOTS of people that are doing everything in their power to help rectify this mess NONE of which is their creation. There is an entire AUCTION dedicated to helping the cause and as far as I can tell, I don't see ANY of Rising Star's stallions donated to that. How odd? However, RSF has "heroically" *laughs sarcastically* swooped in and "rescued" Romantic Star from the evil hands of Jill Burnell/GFF. Gimme a break. Oh but wait - she's also represented by the SAME attorney as JB/GFF. Hmmm. I'm unsure as to why that should be disregarded as fact. WHY is that, do you think? Birds of a feather? And then she has the audacity to whine about not getting updates on Romantic Star from the Marin Humane Society. REALLY?? Why don't you call the vet that is allegedly claiming that Jill Burnell is taking GREAT care of those horses? Presumably they are also supporting the attorney in the attorney's claim that a stallion injured on one day can drop to a body score of ??? - apparently low enough to be seized - the next as a result of the injury! Lets not forget that please, the stallion apparently went from A HEALTHY CONDITION TO NEEDING TO BE SEIZED IN 10 DAYS! In fact, I'd like to get the name of that vet so that I can make sure that no one "I" know makes the mistake of using his/her services if it turns out to be more than alleged. Surely someone can provide us with that name? (off to go search through court documents) - Oh! Here we go. Dr. Cheryl Ellis, Foothill Mobile Veterinary Service 3281 Luneman Road, Placerville, CA 95667 - 530-622-0174. I certainly think she deserves some of those well deserved accolades. <rolling eyes>. Obviously another "hero" willing to go the extra mile for who? I have been loosely following this saga, but I saw that Rising Star Farm (Yep. Right there on Ms. Stavisky's Facebook wall!) had recently gotten a health cert for Romantic Star to be shipped, so his body condition must have been deemed suitable for the travel and yet suitable to be seized by a Humane Society and not returned by order of the Court when a writ is served? I think that says something about the stallion's condition and perhaps the alleged "health" certificate. Hopefully if that is the case, the signatory on the health certificate will also be investigated.

    But, let's look at this a little bit further. By purchasing Romantic Star, she has essentially put funds into the "wonderful" JB/GFF's coffers and thereby assists the woman in continuing on her way of shouldering people out of money, foals, mares, breedings, etc. Yeah...Ronda is a "wonderful" person, isn't she. AMAZING! Worthy of all your glowing remarks. More like self-serving, self-agrandizing, conceited, self-absorbed and certainly villainous in this situation. She's lost ALL credibility in my eyes and I will question anyone that sees her as a hero in this. Who is she helping here? Really? The horses? The humane society? Jill Burnell? Ronda Stavisky? Who? Shame on her and anyone else attempting to sweep any of this under the rug for the sake of keeping Jill the star of this disgusting mess. She's as much a problem here as Jill.

    The actual heroes in all of this are those people that HAVE gone above and beyond in trying to make this right. Anyone who has donated a penny, made suggestions, offered breeding services. The ones that get nothing out of this. Ronda Stavisky is NOT one of those and indeed has compounded the problem by essentially enabling and assisting the biggest crook of them all in this. Jill Burnell. Assisting her, sharing her same council, it stinks and you all know it.

    Honesty doesn't always pay, but dishonesty always costs! And I think in this particular situation, it's cost Ms. Stavisky her reputation - as it should. I know I certainly won't be sending ANY of my mares or business her way and I'll make sure to suggest that there are other considerably more reputable stallion owners who have shown their true colors in this situation. Anyone looking for a breeding to a wonderful stallion, I would suggest that they look at the list of stallion owners that "have" contributed to the auction for Leg-Up and throw their resources to those that are proving that they are an asset to the sporthorse industry. Not some blood sucking leech that sucks the life force out of all that is right and good.


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  9. #3469
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    I understand your position but I think anyone who gets a horse away from Jill Burnell is doing the horse a favor first and foremost. I also think if you really had faith in your position you wouldn't have created an alter to say it. I don't really care about the details until they are all safe, then we can attempt to figure out who the good guys and the bad guys really are.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  10. #3470
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cartier View Post
    We have shipped stallions, and have a bit of experience with the topic (but do not claim to be experts here). I am a bit surprised that one could get a vet out to do a health certificate and have the results back in time to schedule transport…. in such a brief period of time. Horse owners in Marin County, and / or Kathy and Jos would have more info... but it does seem rather quick.
    We have horses shipped to us for retirement from all over the U.S. and Canada. You can get a coggins and a health certificate with a 24 hour turnaround with no issues, this is done routinely. You can also arrange cross country shipping quickly and easily with a good shipper, I've helped our clients do it dozens of times. I see nothing odd about the timeframe of coggins/health certificate and shipping at all.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #3471

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    I understand your position but I think anyone who gets a horse away from Jill Burnell is doing the horse a favor first and foremost. I don't really care about the details until they are all safe.
    It doesn't help a single horse if the legitimacy and legality of rehoming, selling, or transfer is questionable. It adds red tape to the mess and makes it more difficult for Marin and the proper officials to get the remaining animals to safety. Muddies the waters.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  12. #3472
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    Yes, it would be helpful if people would post under their own identity. And consider only speaking the way you would directly to someone's face.

    I had heard that Romantic Star had a broken jaw. It was somewhat of a rumor but from a source that often does "know" things because of extensive networking. Often, rumors are right in these cases. Too bad we can't know.

    I do agree that the sale may be in question if Jill owes so much to so many. Seems that nothing she owns should be free and clear for her to sell. Would like to see all the horses in good homes though.
    Chris
    Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
    WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #3473
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    Dec. 2, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponyponyponi View Post
    And you know this how? What source you been getting YOUR information from?? Your posts are suspect. As I recall, you also sang praises about Jill's place when you were out there last spring. Methinks perhaps it is self-ingratiating. A way to hopefully make sure you were one that "did" get paid? Hmmm? No, lets DO keep the subject of Ronda at the forefront of this discussion right where she probably belongs.

    Here's how I see it.

    There are LOTS of people that are doing everything in their power to help rectify this mess NONE of which is their creation. There is an entire AUCTION dedicated to helping the cause and as far as I can tell, I don't see ANY of Rising Star's stallions donated to that. How odd? However, RSF has "heroically" *laughs sarcastically* swooped in and "rescued" Romantic Star from the evil hands of Jill Burnell/GFF. Gimme a break. Oh but wait - she's also represented by the SAME attorney as JB/GFF. Hmmm. I'm unsure as to why that should be disregarded as fact. WHY is that, do you think? Birds of a feather? And then she has the audacity to whine about not getting updates on Romantic Star from the Marin Humane Society. REALLY?? Why don't you call the vet that is allegedly claiming that Jill Burnell is taking GREAT care of those horses? Presumably they are also supporting the attorney in the attorney's claim that a stallion injured on one day can drop to a body score of ??? - apparently low enough to be seized - the next as a result of the injury! Lets not forget that please, the stallion apparently went from A HEALTHY CONDITION TO NEEDING TO BE SEIZED IN 10 DAYS! In fact, I'd like to get the name of that vet so that I can make sure that no one "I" know makes the mistake of using his/her services if it turns out to be more than alleged. Surely someone can provide us with that name? (off to go search through court documents) - Oh! Here we go. Dr. Cheryl Ellis, Foothill Mobile Veterinary Service 3281 Luneman Road, Placerville, CA 95667 - 530-622-0174. I certainly think she deserves some of those well deserved accolades. <rolling eyes>. Obviously another "hero" willing to go the extra mile for who? I have been loosely following this saga, but I saw that Rising Star Farm (Yep. Right there on Ms. Stavisky's Facebook wall!) had recently gotten a health cert for Romantic Star to be shipped, so his body condition must have been deemed suitable for the travel and yet suitable to be seized by a Humane Society and not returned by order of the Court when a writ is served? I think that says something about the stallion's condition and perhaps the alleged "health" certificate. Hopefully if that is the case, the signatory on the health certificate will also be investigated.

    But, let's look at this a little bit further. By purchasing Romantic Star, she has essentially put funds into the "wonderful" JB/GFF's coffers and thereby assists the woman in continuing on her way of shouldering people out of money, foals, mares, breedings, etc. Yeah...Ronda is a "wonderful" person, isn't she. AMAZING! Worthy of all your glowing remarks. More like self-serving, self-agrandizing, conceited, self-absorbed and certainly villainous in this situation. She's lost ALL credibility in my eyes and I will question anyone that sees her as a hero in this. Who is she helping here? Really? The horses? The humane society? Jill Burnell? Ronda Stavisky? Who? Shame on her and anyone else attempting to sweep any of this under the rug for the sake of keeping Jill the star of this disgusting mess. She's as much a problem here as Jill.

    The actual heroes in all of this are those people that HAVE gone above and beyond in trying to make this right. Anyone who has donated a penny, made suggestions, offered breeding services. The ones that get nothing out of this. Ronda Stavisky is NOT one of those and indeed has compounded the problem by essentially enabling and assisting the biggest crook of them all in this. Jill Burnell. Assisting her, sharing her same council, it stinks and you all know it.

    Honesty doesn't always pay, but dishonesty always costs! And I think in this particular situation, it's cost Ms. Stavisky her reputation - as it should. I know I certainly won't be sending ANY of my mares or business her way and I'll make sure to suggest that there are other considerably more reputable stallion owners who have shown their true colors in this situation. Anyone looking for a breeding to a wonderful stallion, I would suggest that they look at the list of stallion owners that "have" contributed to the auction for Leg-Up and throw their resources to those that are proving that they are an asset to the sporthorse industry. Not some blood sucking leech that sucks the life force out of all that is right and good.
    ABSOLUTELY! Thank you SO much for spelling it out. I agree 100%. If you told me she was fighting to get the oldest, sorriest broodmare out of there and on her way to Fla, I would still be disgusted for funding Jill, but cheered the efforts to rescue a horse.

    But rescuing Romantic Star? You are looking at continuing to make money off a VICTIM of Jill's, who has suffered enough. AND you keep allowing Jill to be a control-freak and let her decide where the horses she starved and didn't feed (while she went inside and sat down at her trailer for dinner and a warm bed) are placed. Personally, Id rather see MHS place every horse in loving homes.
    Last edited by Stella M; Jan. 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM. Reason: added thoughts


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  14. #3474
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    Not trying to be snarky, but LadyBug, do you mean that we should all post our first and last names?

    I have to agree with poniponyponi, I've thought these thoughts as well. Especially when it comes to sharing an attorney, just seems odd, but may serve a purpose somehow.

    For what it's worth, I have personally seen horses lose body condition quickly when they are injured or sick (especially if they cannot eat due to a broken jaw). That would not surprise me, although quickly and overnight are two different things.


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  15. #3475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    Not trying to be snarky, but LadyBug, do you mean that we should all post our first and last names
    Yep. My profile here should show my name. So tired of all the anonymous crap. I don't say anything unless I am willing to stand behind it.
    Chris
    Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
    WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)


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  16. #3476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    Never had a positive Coggins and a stallion could be on the road in 24 hrs as that is all it takes to get blood results back for the shipper. One sets up shipping often before doing the coggins as it is not likely to be positive.
    About getting a health certificate in 24 hours, sure if you’re Edgar or a reputable breeder /horse owner, who pays their bills and has all the health records on file and up-to-date… it’s not a problem to have the vet you’ve used regularly for years drop everything to fit you in at a moment’s notice. I guess I should have phrased it that “in the context of this thread, and the stories here,” it seemed rather quick, and a bit odd that he got a health certificate under these circumstances, given the Marin County feels he needed to be seized.

    Without question this thread has raised issues that tug at our heart strings… it has been something of an emotional roller coaster to say the least. Many of us know the horses and the people involved. You can read the frustration in every line of ponyponyponi's post. It goes a bit far, but I agree with some of the points he/she makes, and I completely understand wanting to say that all anonymously. I think that post of ponyponyponi's touches on some of the things we were thinking...


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  17. #3477
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    fwiw, if a horse has a broken jaw and presumably cant eat - it would drop weight rather quickly i would assume? so how much weight can a horse drop in 10 days if it cant eat?

    also, re: purchasing horses from JB - i dont quite understand the angst here - hopefully any $$ (if there is any) going to JB will pay for feed for the horses - which is a good thing.....

    it is not good for the horse to have to be seized and then put in foster care etc.... having been around there are good places for horses to land, but there are also not so good places - and since there are so many - it seems to me better to work this all out with the horses remaining where they are as long as they are being fed/watered/etc.

    eta: i do not get this attack of folks wanting to help the horses by purchasing them? this is going to make it very difficult to re-home them if folks are afraid to take them for fear of rumors of "helping JIll"


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  18. #3478
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    Unless I'm wrong, and I very well could be, California law will determine if a sale is valid. I would think, without knowing California law, that unless there is a recorded lien on a horse, it could be sold and funds received. The buyer would probably be what is called a Bona-fide Purchaser for Value and would own the horse. The creditors would go against the seller for any money and other assets.

    If the sale is somehow fraudulent, then the buyer would not be a BFPV.

    I can easily see how a stallion station would like to have RS because he is a lovely, lovely horse even without having any prior or long term relationship to JB. Get a call that a lovely stallion must be sold / is for sale, and would you be interested? One would think that a stallion station like RSF might get several such calls per month on mares and stallions.

    The fact that she is sharing a lawyer with JB could well be from ignorance. If I got a call from the seller's attorney that the horse had been seized, I very well might say, without knowing more, "Would you handle this for me since you're already involved against the people who seized him?" If such a call came from JB, remember how convincing she can be.

    All of the above is just guessiing and supposition.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


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  19. #3479
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    fwiw, if a horse has a broken jaw and presumably cant eat - it would drop weight rather quickly i would assume? so how much weight can a horse drop in 10 days if it cant eat?
    His jaw was broken within 24-hours of his being seized, so not that much. He would have already been WAY thin before he and the other stallion fought.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique


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  20. #3480
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    fwiw, if a horse has a broken jaw and presumably cant eat - it would drop weight rather quickly i would assume? so how much weight can a horse drop in 10 days if it cant eat?

    also, re: purchasing horses from JB - i dont quite understand the angst here - hopefully any $$ (if there is any) going to JB will pay for feed for the horses - which is a good thing.....

    it is not good for the horse to have to be seized and then put in foster care etc.... having been around there are good places for horses to land, but there are also not so good places - and since there are so many - it seems to me better to work this all out with the horses remaining where they are as long as they are being fed/watered.....
    I disagree. Foster homes and care provided by a humane society in the eye of the public is a thousand percent improvement over remaining in Jill's care. She doesn't have the money for feed, sounds like she is about to lose the property and the horses will continue to be used or given to people who may give them back to Jill later.

    She no longer deserves to make decisions reguarding their care. NO ONE should support her, give her money, or hide horses. She should be left alone under the scrutiny of a humane society that so far has acted quickly and in the horse's best interest. My only wish is that they would release the photos of the horses that they seized, and THEN see how many folks here would support her.


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