[COTHalter44]

WOW how did my stallion's name get mixed up in any article about Jill Burnells abuse, I am sooo upset,.

Probably because the USEF rankings for 2012 are a mess. It lists him as #1 hunter sire, but with only 67 points, that can't be correct. That's not a dig at your boy, just stating what the website is saying and likely where the newspaper got its info. I'd send them an email and ask them to correct it.

[Mardi]

[QUOTE=NBFarm;6766088
What is revoking her USEF membership really going to do? I don't think she has to have a current membership to be on the USEF leading hunter breeders list. Those points are contributed by the owners showing their young horses that are by her stallions…she doesn't need a membership unless she is actively competing a horse herself. [/QUOTE]

From USEF Rankings pages, for Leading Hunter Breeding Breeder, Leading Hunter Breeding Owner, Leading Hunter Breeding Sire:
"In order to earn points, horses must be recorded with USEF and their owner must be a member."

Granted in the first category the points are accrued by offspring, but does the farm/person who earns the title have to be a member ? It would be rather odd if the USEF leading breeder wasn't required to be a member !

Clearly for Leading Owner and Leading Sire, membership is required.

However my reason for asking about revocation of membership was only to find out what USEF's bottom line was. Every association has some criteria for behavior in order to retain membership.

Since USEF is the national governing body of equestrian sports (with horse welfare firmly in their sights) surely the JB/GFF situation has crossed the line at some point, whether horse neglect or illegal business practices.

[MagicRoseFarm]

Ok, I did not look at the USEF stuff.. yes the USEF are a mess,, one of the horses still has not had all the points switched from negative to positive and its been months.. and several others are not even listed as contributors to the rankings at all..
LOL i miss alot in my bubble...

Anyway , it is very easily misunderstood the way the man wrote the article and i have tried to contact him several times, via all methods

[mbm]

Ok, I did not look at the USEF stuff.. yes the USEF are a mess,, one of the horses still has not had all the points switched from negative to positive and its been months.. and several others are not even listed as contributors to the rankings at all..
LOL i miss alot in my bubble...

Anyway , it is very easily misunderstood the way the man wrote the article and i have tried to contact him several times, via all methods

this is why it is a bad idea for regular folks to try to act like reporters and for websites such as the "patch" websites to be used as real live reporting.

There are many errors in the report that also lists the above stallion ....

*sigh*

[DoubleTwistedWire]

From USEF Rankings pages, for Leading Hunter Breeding Breeder, Leading Hunter Breeding Owner, Leading Hunter Breeding Sire:
"In order to earn points, horses must be recorded with USEF and their owner must be a member."

She's not a current member for 2013, though. If you do a Member Search on USEF, Jill Burnell listed as "Inactive." I'm not sure that the USEF can actually sanction someone who isn't a current member of their organization, no matter what they've done.

[PINE TREE FARM SC]

She's not a current member for 2013, though. If you do a Member Search on USEF, Jill Burnell listed as "Inactive." I'm not sure that the USEF can actually sanction someone who isn't a current member of their organization, no matter what they've done.

In the past USEF has suspended an individual for animal abuse BUT only after there has been a criminal conviction.

[ise@ssl]

If she has unpaid vet bills it would be up to the veterinarian's to collect on the bills. There are no laws that require you to have veterinary care for horses.

Not sure how it is in CA - but here in NJ to move a horse off your property you MUST have a current Coggins and the Coggins MUST indicate that the has has had an EWT shot within the past year or they cannot leave the property.

[paint hunter]

Not sure how it is in CA - but here in NJ to move a horse off your property you MUST have a current Coggins and the Coggins MUST indicate that the has has had an EWT shot within the past year or they cannot leave the property.

Not a requirement in California

[DownYonder]

If you do a Member Search on USEF, Jill Burnell listed as "Inactive." I'm not sure that the USEF can actually sanction someone who isn't a current member of their organization, no matter what they've done.

FWIW, USEF does sanction people whether or not they are active members. Some years back, I was working as a VOLUNTEER show secretary at a DSHB show, but was not a USEF member, and I was fined $1000 by USEF for not verifying there was a copy of a horse's registration papers in the entry book before accepting the horse as a post-entry in an IBC. Didn't matter that the horse's owner brought in a copy of the papers before the show ended - which were accepted by the show manager and TD - the asshat woman whose horse got beat in that IBC by the post-entered horse filed a protest with USEF, and they ruled in her favor. Furthermore, I was threatened with arrest if I set foot on the grounds of a USEF show before paying the fine.

Needless to say, I have very little respect for USEF ("little old ladies in skirts" is how one previous trainer referred to the organization). It does as it pleases - turns its head regarding abuse, drug violations, etc., etc., for favored BNTs or wealthy owners, but will nail the "little people" to the wall for the slightest infraction. So don't expect much help from USEF in the JB/GFF case - she is making money for the organization (all those owners registering their horses with USEF), so they will turn a blind eye to her shenanigans.

[DownYonder]

And, as for whether Jill is "mentally ill" or just a crook - don't forget she is being enabled by HER HUSBAND.

[CDE Driver]

And, as for whether Jill is "mentally ill" or just a crook - don't forget she is being enabled by HER HUSBAND.

And her acolytes. Which completely boggles my mind....

[back in the saddle]

WOW DownYonder. Just WOW.

Most of the time, that's usually how things are in any organization. It's all about the money. That is, UNTIL something huge and reputation damaging happens to the supporting organization like the Penn state scandal. So yea, I don't think this is big enough or hurts their reputation. Unless USEF is somehow found to be part of the problem.

[SilverBalls]

FWIW, USEF does sanction people whether or not they are active members.

Needless to say, I have very little respect for USEF ("little old ladies in skirts" is how one previous trainer referred to the organization). It does as it pleases - turns its head regarding abuse, drug violations, etc., etc., for favored BNTs or wealthy owners, but will nail the "little people" to the wall for the slightest infraction. So don't expect much help from USEF in the JB/GFF case - she is making money for the organization (all those owners registering their horses with USEF), so they will turn a blind eye to her shenanigans.

I might add that I have NO respect for all the breeders, organizations, trainers, handlers, and owners that KNOWINGLY knew something was wrong ~ this whole debacle didn't happen overnight and there were PLENTY OF RED FLAGS!

Just reading and following this thread shows a very long history of issues ~ but yet some of us were slammed years back for TRYING to bring attention to this heinous issue! How may of you tolerated this for one reason or another?!?! I dare you to come forward.....
This could have been prevented ~ UNREAL

[Perfect Pony]

I might add that I have NO respect for all the breeders, organizations, trainers, handlers, and owners that KNOWINGLY knew something was wrong ~ this whole debacle didn't happen overnight and there were PLENTY OF RED FLAGS!

Just reading and following this thread shows a very long history of issues ~ but yet some of us were slammed years back for TRYING to bring attention to this heinous issue! How may of you tolerated this for one reason or another?!?! I dare you to come forward.....
This could have been prevented ~ UNREAL

Bill, while I understand your anger about this, it is NO different than the issue that is going on right now with Amber Hill. As well as the issue of so many top hunter trainers drugging horses until they are practically dead. Yet they are still out there showing and winning week after week?

Not to mention the whole Barney Ward fiasco (with him training up to the end). Or the way I have watched young dressage horses trained, with side reins and draw reins so tight they could break the horses neck. The examples are endless of how little the horse matters in horse sport.

The whole "industry" is a disgusting mess full of sociopaths and people with zero interest in animal welfare.

[FriesinMom]

Yes, it is Romantic Star and he is UC Davis and doing well. I saw all the stallions in late Oct and I would not consider them a '2'. Some of mares could be considered 3 or 4. But again, this was in late October an we have had a lot of rain and cold weather since then.

Can anyone confirm that Romantic Star was the injured stallion? I had heard he had a body score of 2?

[lauriep]

I might add that I have NO respect for all the breeders, organizations, trainers, handlers, and owners that KNOWINGLY knew something was wrong ~ this whole debacle didn't happen overnight and there were PLENTY OF RED FLAGS!

Just reading and following this thread shows a very long history of issues ~ but yet some of us were slammed years back for TRYING to bring attention to this heinous issue! How may of you tolerated this for one reason or another?!?! I dare you to come forward.....
This could have been prevented ~ UNREAL

Bill, there are two issues here. Horse abuse and dishonest business practices. The horse abuse is much more recent. There are few, if any, reports of that more than a year old. Again, I can only speak for OUR experience with her, and the horses we got directly from her were in good shape. We visited the old farm last February and while not neat and tidy, the horses we saw there and in nearby fields were fine. Ready to walk into the show ring? No. But fine. I have seen much worse at other farms that are supposedly the good guys. We were warned by exactly 2 people about her non-payment issues. We had little trouble, until recently, with getting paid. Also, at that time, there were only whispers of long term stuff, and I have been in this business long enough to not believe things unless I see them myself, am told by someone I trust, or until the evidence becomes overwhelming. I also thought that I might be able to help her more by staying close and continually advising her to get things put right, even if it meant cutting the business waaaaay back to a manageable level.

Clearly, none of that worked. But as someone else said earlier, you can't convict others who dealt with her before all of this came out, particularly if they weren't having problems. You who have never spoken with her cannot know how well she can explain things that she is questioned on. She is really good, and I am not a trusting person. That is a very broad brush you are using, and not at all fair to do.

[Derid]

Yes, it is Romantic Star and he is UC Davis and doing well. I saw all the stallions in late Oct and I would not consider them a '2'. Some of mares could be considered 3 or 4. But again, this was in late October an we have had a lot of rain and cold weather since then.

[FriesinMom]

The gates are protected to the property.

[horsenut93136]

Ditto Laurie. Its easy to blame and say "told you so", but fact is a lot of people were in different situations with her, enabling on different levels??? If I believed every rumor/story about every trainer I would have no where to train.

The really sad fact now is that because the word is out there she does not have the $$ to care for the horses and unfortunately (I believe) the horses have to reach a certain level of neglect before they are seized which is why I felt that if she gave them away it was better than waiting until they were seized, because I would hate to think they all had to reach starvation level before something could be done

I would love to see Marin be able to seize them all and not have it be a month by month thing where they are removed as their health fails yes this may weaken the case against Jill, but I'm not on the same page as Stella that says let them stay and be really sick so the case against Jill can be iron clad. Because you know that means some of them will not make it.

[Anteup]

So this is going to sound a little selfish, but what recourse do people with a breeding to one of the stallions have? I chose not to use my breeding when this sunami hit, so do I forfit the stud fee or what?

Also, I almost threw up a little when I read about Romantic Star. How can anyone turn a blind eye to that gorgeous animal, hurt and hungry? Makes my brain hurt.