[Daventry]

My fault then, and I did say it was possibly a Facebook rumor. Although if you read in that thread there is a breeder saying it is Romantic Star (she *heard* it from someone close to the situation and that he was a 1). My apologies if the info is incorrect.

Yeah, it certainly wasn't me!

[skydy]

Happy New Year everyone.

"Faith is believing in something when common sense tells you not to."
(Miracle on 34th Street)

Happy New Year!!

[alexandra]

Why can't the stallion's name in question be made public?

What does ist help ??? Does it make the siotuation for the others different ? Would you be donating more or less depending on the name of the stallion ? Isn't it enough that the horse is in such a bad condition that it is in a vet clinic ? Instead of asking details like who it is everyone who can afford should give a donation to the humane society. And help them to get more horses out, get out word so that former owners may be able to contact the authorities and give "their" horses a good home again - at least provionally !

[Koniucha]

What does ist help ??? Does it make the siotuation for the others different ? Would you be donating more or less depending on the name of the stallion ? Isn't it enough that the horse is in such a bad condition that it is in a vet clinic ? Instead of asking details like who it is everyone who can afford should give a donation to the humane society. And help them to get more horses out, get out word so that former owners may be able to contact the authorities and give "their" horses a good home again - at least provionally !

What is wrong with someone wanting to know which stallion it is? Just because they want to know does not mean they will donate less. It just makes no sense to make everything public except this one bit of info. People are curious, that's all.

[back in the saddle]

Layoff Alexandra. I asked because if a horse is pulled from a property, I would have thought it's name would be public information. That's all. (since Then, someone has pm'd me saying its all part of the legal process, so that has to be respected)

Some people have personal experience with these horses prior to them being sold to this person so there is a curiosity if the ones they knew in the past are those horses who were pulled. That's all. No, it makes no difference in terms the amount of donation at all. And it was petty to even suggest it.

What does ist help ??? Does it make the siotuation for the others different ? Would you be donating more or less depending on the name of the stallion ? Isn't it enough that the horse is in such a bad condition that it is in a vet clinic ? Instead of asking details like who it is everyone who can afford should give a donation to the humane society. And help them to get more horses out, get out word so that former owners may be able to contact the authorities and give "their" horses a good home again - at least provionally !

[Laurierace]

Eventually they will have to make it public. I seriously doubt the hospital is going to allow her to collect whomever it is nor will the Humane Society if he is released from the hospital. I am sure there are plenty of people with fully paid breeding contracts in hand that need to know they can add themselves to the victims list.

[Mardi]

She had been at the Petaluma property for so long with no intervention.
Does Marin have tighter regulations than Sonoma County ?

[alteredtime]

I am so sorry for all those who have been wronged by this and other unscrupulous horse people. It was actually Krallen's unfortunate story

So, bottom line is I could pay 10k for a civil suit to try to get my 16k back. The judge may or may not require the other party to pay court and attorney fees, and I don't know that I am willing to take the risk anymore. I'm not made of money, and am so exhausted and frustrated from this that I don't have much of an interest in spending another year or two emotionally invested while sending out checks to an attorney.
FWIW, I am far from the first to have problems with this person. But I am guessing the others have felt similarly to me, and ended up just walking away. My husband said he wishes we could win the lottery just to have the extra cash to actually go after this person, simply for the point of it, and because this person will continue to do things like this unless they are stopped.

that prompted me to post. This is a good illustration of why so-called "professionals" in all disciplines get away with taking so many clients. I had a similar experience purchasing a show horse from Europe through my then-trainer. The horse was alive, but completely unsuitable and lame. I too chose to walk away knowing that pursuing the matter would be costly and leave me no better off than I was. You can't get blood from a stone. This trainer is very well known and is still out there year after year with new groups of clients.

Good luck to all those involved with this person. And to the poor horses.

[lauriep]

She had been at the Petaluma property for so long with no intervention.
Does Marin have tighter regulations than Sonoma County ?

Yes. Apparently Marin county takes their animal welfare more seriously.

[lauriep]

Yes - she moved recently and Marin County wanted to avoid the previous county's nightmare / headache. Also, I wonder if the horses health has declined as money may be finally very tight.

GRAY FOX FARM WEBSITE - does anyone know the protocol to getting a website shut down (and FB)? It seems pretty basic that the website/FB should be shut down or have warning alerts posted. As it stands, it presents a credible business and hides the scamming and animal neglect that is current reality.

Not to mention the email newsletter she just sent out, glowingly reporting how happy the horses are in their new location, advertising a sale on breeding to RS, and selling Grande Divination.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

Yes - she moved recently and Marin County wanted to avoid the previous county's nightmare / headache. Also, I wonder if the horses health has declined as money may be finally very tight.

GRAY FOX FARM WEBSITE - does anyone know the protocol to getting a website shut down (and FB)? It seems pretty basic that the website/FB should be shut down or have warning alerts posted. As it stands, it presents a credible business and hides the scamming and animal neglect that is current reality.

Several of the 2013 foals being sold on her site in-utero for $8,000-$10,000 don't even exist.
She's never had the mares in her program (one of which is my friends mare) so that's total fraud. Print screens of those have been saved. The other 2 belong to a well known owner who would never send her mares there from what I heard from a friend of hers. It's just sad.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Wasn't he previously owned by a breeder / dressage trainer in Virginia?

get out word so that former owners may be able to contact the authorities and give "their" horses a good home again - at least provionally !

That was why I asked the above question. Does the stallion's former owner know what is happeneing? Would he be willing to help his former horse?

[Dapple Grey]

I just read this thread. Don't know Jill, but definitely never do business with someone who is obviously so disrespected by the equine community. A train wreak.

[lauriep]

For content/copyright infringement of material posted on Gray Fox Farm website or FB page without consent/permission. If your pictures or material is posted on Jill Burnell Gray Fox Farm, LLC website you can request the content be removed.

Yahoo.com might assist and DMCA provides help and self-help for removing stolen copyrighted content from websites (fee required):

http://www.dmca.com/Takedowns.aspx?a...Fal7QgodhDUAPQ

Here is the data for Gray Fox Farm website:

Registrant:
Gray Fox Farms

324 Hannan ranch lane
Petaluma, California 94952
United States

Administrative Contact:
Burnell, Jill [email protected]
Gray Fox Farms
324 Hannan ranch lane
Petaluma, California 94952
United States
7073223046

Technical Contact:
Burnell, Jill [email protected]
Gray Fox Farms
324 Hannan ranch lane
Petaluma, California 94952
United States
7073223046

Domain servers in listed order:
YNS1.YAHOO.COM
YNS2.YAHOO.COM

None of the contact info is accurate anymore, except the email address. Which she won't answer. And I have no idea what kind of documentation you would need to compel a website or FB page to be taken down. But I suspect it would have to be documented legal decisions, of which there are none other than some unpaid bills. Not enough...

[Justa Bob]

None of the contact info is accurate anymore, except the email address. Which she won't answer. And I have no idea what kind of documentation you would need to compel a website or FB page to be taken down. But I suspect it would have to be documented legal decisions, of which there are none other than some unpaid bills. Not enough...

Thank you! Agreed - Jill is MIA...when a copyright is infringed it doesn't matter what the website owner does. Its the website hosting service that takes the action (Yahoo.com) -- they DO follow the law. Jill's data is how the account is officially registered - which would be helpful when filing the complaint. DMCA TAKEDOWN provides an easy to use service for copyright owner's to get fast action.

[Laurierace]

She has a picture of my filly on there that I did not give her permission to use but I assume she just downloaded it from my FB page as anyone else can do so it is sort of my fault.

[sid]

Facebook takes very seriously those who infringe on copyrights.

I'd suggest the owners of the pics that JB is using, get on FB and file a complaint that her website link on is full of copyright infringments. Then maybe they'll just shut down her FB page.

While one cannot shut down her website (maybe Yahoo will), at minimum contacting FB might help -- one less social media outlet that links to her website "out there' , and to which the unsuspecting may fall prey.

Just thinkin'.

[DeeThbd]

I'd think having a website up to keep track of which horses are where could be a very important thing.

[RugBug]

I know I get flamed every time I say this but I do not think there are that many foal buyers of "hunter prospects" ....they go with trainer or trainer goes IN GENERAL to Europe for those.

I'm laughing because after reading 60+ pages, this is what gets me to post. (and since I haven't finished and I know there are more developments since page 105 which is where I currenlty am, I appologize). BUT...LaurieP is right. I am the ammie that cannot afford to go to Europe or buy a domestic 4-5 year old of the caliber I would like to own. I have spent a lot of time, and have been sorely tempted by, the GFF website/foals. I could afford a nice foal and then gamble on it training up to what I want it to be. In fact, that's the only way I will ever own a really nice horse (no offense to my current, lovely in his own right, horse. ).

AND, I just might show that horse on the line...NOT because it was my goal, but rather because I think it's a good way to get a youngster out and about as early as possible so the show scene is no big deal. The horse probably wouldn't do all that well because I don't like young ones that fat, but it's wouldn't be about ribbons but rather about exposure. Just another step along the path...

IMO, I think there are VERY few people who buy only for HB. It's just a fun/useful stepping stone to the performance horse they are ultimately hoping for. There are a ton of obstacles that might mean that the youngster doesn't make it as a performance horse, but you can say that about a slew of the foals/young horses that are purchased into show homes.

The GFF website always had me planning how to make buying a hunter baby a reality. Thankfully, I never got around to it. Trust me, if I had property and didn't board, I would have had to count myself as a GFF client...and hoped that I would end up one of the lucky ones.

[COTHalter44]

It appears Grand Affair has been sold as this was just posted on FB. This person was on here earlier in this thread defending Jill but at least the mare has a good home.

Kirsten Strain
For those of you familiar with the Oldenburg mare Grand Affair, she has been with me for the past 6 months mothering her 2012 filly Dolphina who I own. I had also purchased Grand Affairs 2010 inutero foal Rain Boots who has been with his new owner for the past year. I am pleased to report that I have purchased Grand Affair who will continue to live at my farm in Petaluma. This is an FYI to dispel any rumors of the whereabouts of this wonderful hunter mare.