Oh good Lord...those photos make me weep. Both of them look terrible. Baby is looking like it's getting contracted behind as well.
Poor things...just terrible.
A mare with a foal that young -- if she's ribby now, I'm sure by weaning time she'll be completely bones (though she's not far from that now). Poor nutrition clearly during late term PG term or she wouldn't look like that with a foal that young.
Baby looks like it's also paying the price already -- not only in body weight but in skeletal formation.
I could be really wrong and it is entirely hearsay but I heard that this last foaling was really hard on her.,the 2012 filly. There are pictures of her with the 2011 colt on a FB page looking terrible. This is a fantastic mare that did/does not deserve what she has been dealt. If she is open you can bet its not intentional ..I hope she is ok.
I have no relation with Jill/GFF and rarely jump on threads like these or get involved at all, but have recently been screwed (for lack of a more polite term) by another breeder, and looked extensively into my options for recourse or restitution. It isn't nearly as easy as contacting law enforcement or filing a suit. Just to share with others, here's a little of my experience...
Long story short, I bought a broodmare for around 16k that had been dead for a month or two, but the seller represented her as being alive and romping around in the pasture. However, the only criminal statute it fit in the other person's state was committing "deceitful business practices", which was the lowest class of misdemeanor (hardly more than a traffic ticket). It did fit the fraud statute perfectly, but in their state, fraud was a civil issue, not criminal. I contacted several civil attorneys, but they told me to plan on 10k for the civil suit. Also, in this particular state, it was the judge's discretion on whether to award court and attorney fees back to the plaintiff, assuming the plaintiff won. Then there's the issue of collecting the 16k back. This state would allow me to place a lien, but only upon winning the civil case.
Ironically, the lawyers recommended I file against the insurance company first, simply because I hadn't technically violated my policy and they would settle much quicker and have the financial ability to do so. If suing the insurance company was unsuccessful, I was advised to then go after the horse seller, and had 2 years to sue the seller. I have an ethical problem suing the insurance company - I don't blame them at all.
So, bottom line is I could pay 10k for a civil suit to try to get my 16k back. The judge may or may not require the other party to pay court and attorney fees, and I don't know that I am willing to take the risk anymore. I'm not made of money, and am so exhausted and frustrated from this that I don't have much of an interest in spending another year or two emotionally invested while sending out checks to an attorney.
FWIW, I am far from the first to have problems with this person. But I am guessing the others have felt similarly to me, and ended up just walking away. My husband said he wishes we could win the lottery just to have the extra cash to actually go after this person, simply for the point of it, and because this person will continue to do things like this unless they are stopped.
Grand Affair by Grande Saber. 16.1hd Warmblood mare. She's an amazing hunter broodmare. This is a rare opportunity to own a mare of her quality. She
is an easy breeder. Comes with 2 breedings to Redwine. 18,000.
It isn't nearly as easy as contacting law enforcement or filing a suit. Just to share with others, here's a little of my experience...
I "liked" your post because I appreciate the amount of detail and that you shared your experience. I understand it can be very hard to go after someone who defrauds you, and - in all honesty - I am probably one of those people who would walk away rather than invest in a civil suit. (And, to be realistic, $16,000 is peanuts to a good attorney, and most good attorneys aren't going to take a case that involves such a relatively small amount of money ) But my experience as a former white collar crime prosecutor is a little different. As I said before - many posts ago - once you start defrauding people across state lines you commit a federal crime. And, as I and others have said, the difference between just bad business practice and theft is a pattern of behavior. When multiple victims come forward, prosecutors begin to pay attention. I put people in prison for doing less than JB is alleged to have done. For what it's worth, I don't think it was time-consuming or futile for "my" victims. I'm the one who put in the hard work, and I'm the one who constantly had to tell the victim to be patient and quit constantly calling me so that I could do my job. In every case, the only work the fraud victim had to do was one initial interview, gathering and providing documentation, a trial "prep," and testifying at trial, if the case went to trial. White collar criminals usually plead guilty. In two years, I had only two cases of this type that went to trial, and in both cases the victims were happy with the results.
I've had no involvement with JB and quit following this thread a long time ago. I peeked again just this week when I realized it was still going on and on. I have a strong sense of justice, and it bothers me, as I'm sure it bothers a lot of you, to see someone get away with fraud (if that's what's happening), especially when it hurts innocent creatures. I also feel rather helpless because only those who have had personal experience with JB can do anything to make this stop.
I have the same sort of feeling as Discobold as I am at the moment in the middle of going after someone that committed fraud towards myself but here in Germany.
Just out of interest: what would the victims need to do in the USA ? I can "just" adress the police with documentation and than have to wait, maybe get more information to them when they want to and to testify in court later on. Hopefully it is taken to court, as in our country a debt that is related to something illegal can be collected for ever, even if person goes for a private bankruptcy.
I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
2015: Likoto- Florencio - Prince Thatch; Lissaro - Don Frederico - Prince Thatch; Edward - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
Reposting 2 of Hoof Justice's previous entries in light of the horse's new home - fingers crossed better care comes their way in 2013:
Originally Posted by HoofJustice
I am still waiting for more information on this case. Any and all information would be helpful for the case. I am not afraid to leave my email open to those who care to know who I am. Burnell knows who I am. Thanks to all of you who have assisted. I need more however. Equine Driver cannot be found. Thats ok, lets start over. I am free to talk to any of you Tuesdays through Saturdays. 415-506-6236
Originally Posted by HoofJustice
Thank you all. I have received some very interesting phone calls/emails.
My GOAL here is to enforce the laws regarding the care of her horses, and yes that means proper shelter. This is very crucial out there, esp. The weather has been awful and NONE of the horses have any shelter. All 4 of her stallions are in large open paddocks with no shelter, not even a tree. The mares and foals run in big open fields, no shelter. The weights look good as of now. She has begun to supplement feed and blankets on a select few. Pastures nearly eaten completely down now. I am watching closely. BUT>
I cannot for the life of me get her call me back or email me.
I do not intend on seizing horses right now. We would prefer she acts responsibly and cares for them properly. She has been put on a legal notice of correction.
Krallen: So very disturbing that someone would not only do this (per your above post), but get away with it. I'm with Daventry about not keeping the breeder's identity confidential; I'm not an attorney, thus I cannot give you legal advice, however my understanding of defamation is that the absolute defense is the truth. Ever notice how some merchants post the bad checks they've received behind the register? Writing NSF checks is fraud in some states, so those merchants let the public know of the bad transaction because it is the TRUTH, so it is not defamation. You were frauded, and sounds as if you have the ability to prove it. Check with an attorney, of course, but you might save another unsuspecting buyer the same fate as you if you go public with the unscrupulous breeder's identity. I'm convinced that someone who would collect money on the "sale" of a dead broodmare would not hesitate to do any number of bad business deeds and probably has/will continue to do so. Good luck to you, is it possible for you to pursue a small claims case instead? Wouldn't get the full amount, but perhaps some satisfaction of $. I also applaud your integrity and ethics re: not going after the insurance company, even though the attorneys recommended it as a strategy.
NOPE - Original foal papers for Grand Affair in the hand of legit owner.
Originally Posted by Mardi
Curious...if mare and baby are not at Jill's, are we sure Jill owns the mare and has a right to sell her ?
Jill Burnell does NOT have the original set of foal papers for "Grand Affair" Her registration papers were never transferred by her owner - Jill Johnson.
Let it be known by all that I bred "Grand Affair". Any papers bearing the name of Grand Affair by Grande Saber are NOT legitimate papers from her breeder or the stallion owner...which by the way is - TWF -formerly Tellwynd in Lancaster, PA and I am also owner and breeder of the stallion Grande Saber.
Please feel free to contact me by email TELLWYND@AOL.COM.
Leave a number and I will call you.
Tradition of "Grande" Sporthorse Champions
GRANDE SOVEREIGN 2014 USEF 8th Leading HB Sire
& Sire of OWN IT - USEF National HB 3yo Champion
Grand Affiar, Grande Desire, GR Impression, Couture du Jour