[3Dogs]

You don't know what you are talking about, anything about our business or the goals of our clients. So don't presume to tell me who we are invested in, or how we make our living. You see one segment of what we do when you attend Warrenton. So don't go there.

And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it.

uh no Laurie - I go to Upperville and have for years and to Devon - again, I mean no disrespect re your business model and what you and Junior do. As said, you want to PM me, fine - but honestly, this line?
And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it?

I am only saying that when you lie down with fleas you may GET fleas and in HB some who don't deserve to win DO and some who should win DON'T and that means for EVERY hard working handler out there.

[Laurierace]

uh no Laurie - I go to Upperville and have for years and to Devon - again, I mean no disrespect re your business model and what you and Junior do. As said, you want to PM me, fine - but honestly, this line?
And I will call you out on this ridiculous contention of yours every time you make it?

I am only saying that when you lie down with fleas you may GET fleas and in HB some who don't deserve to win DO and some who should win DON'T and that means for EVERY hard working handler out there.

Duh, it's called HUNTER breeding. Of course it is political. What does that have to do with Jill Burnell being a criminal?

[Edgar]

Duh, it's called HUNTER breeding. Of course it is political. What does that have to do with Jill Burnell being a criminal?

[trubandloki]

Duh, it's called HUNTER breeding. Of course it is political. What does that have to do with Jill Burnell being a criminal?

That was my thought when I read that comment too. The ribbon lottery is alive and well at all shows where you are paying for the judges opinion. Not sure what that has to do with this thread.

[3Dogs]

That was my thought when I read that comment too. The ribbon lottery is alive and well at all shows where you are paying for the judges opinion. Not sure what that has to do with this thread.

Sorry...nothing to do with a criminal: responded to what posted re value of JB offspring and LR you repeatedly post what offered for yours and then LP, who many of us who WATCH and attend many HB shows with no "dogs" showing, know had a deal at one time with JB. You are not clearly disinterested parties...I get it.

Let it drop. I felt queasy about JB years ago and got villified by many of the folks currently posting they "see the light". Good luck to all...still have a pang of pity for all the honest stallion owners out there without a false facade market machine for that elusive "hunter" baby!

[Laurierace]

I have no idea what you are talking about. I attempted to breed a replacement for my irreplaceable show horse which I assure you is more diificult than breeding for the elusive hunter. In the meantime I am having a little fun with her.

[lauriep]

Sorry...nothing to do with a criminal: responded to what posted re value of JB offspring and LR you repeatedly post what offered for yours and then LP, who many of us who WATCH and attend many HB shows with no "dogs" showing, know had a deal at one time with JB. You are not clearly disinterested parties...I get it.

Let it drop. I felt queasy about JB years ago and got villified by many of the folks currently posting they "see the light". Good luck to all...still have a pang of pity for all the honest stallion owners out there without a false facade market machine for that elusive "hunter" baby!

I don't know what you are smoking, but let me give you some FACTS:

1. There was never any "deal" with Jill. She sent us four babies, we sold three very quickly, and the last we showed through his two year old year, then sold him. End of story. She PAID us to go out and look at her stock this year, but nothing came of it. We have had horses from many sources over the years, breeders and buyers alike. She was just another.

2. I have made no secret of my admiration of Redwine's get. You have not lived with them, tested them, observed them over time, so how you can make these sweeping generalizations just because you watch some classes from the sidelines, I don't get. But we have had offspring from more than 17 stallions pass through our barn. Can anyone else make that claim? I don't think so. But it gives us a unique perspective and we are able to compare one to another. We have free jumped them. We deal with them on the ground. They have ALL been nice horses, but of course you develop preferences. We have never had an Apiro and would love to rectify that, as well as others. I only speak to things I know to be facts, not assumptions.

3. This whole argument started over your constant assertion that people breed/buy SOLELY for the HB ring, and I have told you repeatedly that that is just. Not. True. By extension, your disdain for Redwine has indicated that is all you think his kids can do. You have decided that they couldn't possibly be athletes, and I can assure you THROUGH ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WITH THEM that that is also not true. If you don't like him, fine, but his kids will prove themselves. Brandon has a three year old he thinks has unlimited potential. Ask him. There are two in FL that are older and the owner is bringing them through the divisions. Watch for them.

4. I haven't spoken to Jill since July, so not exactly a close relationship. Junior is an equal opportunity handler and other than our longest term customer, who has been with us since day one, no one gets preferential treatment.

[Fairview Horse Center]

But we have had offspring from more than 17 stallions pass through our barn. Can anyone else make that claim? I don't think so. But it gives us a unique perspective and we are able to compare one to another. We have free jumped them. We deal with them on the ground.

I also have had offspring from 15-17 Warmblood stallions, plus about half a dozen or more Hunter, or Eventing type TB stallions offspring spend a good bit of tme in my barn, and I totally agree that is does give you a fairly unique perspective.

That said, I have sometimes come to totally different conclusions than the masses. One VERY popular warmblood stallion has been crossed a zillion times to TB mares, with often disappointing results in the temperament department.

That same stallion crosses amazingly well with full warmblood mares, but that is not what he has mostly been used for in the Hunter world.

Being able to compare several of a stallion's offspring, out of similar and different type mares really is nice to be able to learn from. Especially nice when the boarders are paying me to board them, and the observing is more of a bonus.

[DownYonder]

Originally Posted by lauriep

But we have had offspring from more than 17 stallions pass through our barn. Can anyone else make that claim?

That is a little bit of a ridiculous statement as any trainer that has been around for any length of time will have dealt with offspring from many different stallions.

For instance, at my current barn, we have offspring from 19 different stallions. I think there were at least 14 different stallions represented at the previous barn, with offspring of additional stallions represented in previous years.

[lauriep]

Point taken. But MY point was that actually living with these horses gives you a much different perspective than watching them in HB classes and decreeing that they will not amount to much...

[DownYonder]

Point taken. But MY point was that actually living with these horses gives you a much different perspective than watching them in HB classes and decreeing that they will not amount to much...

Agree, And time will tell if the Redwine offspring amount to much in the performance ring. We will have to take a look at the stats in a few years to see how he did as a sire of performance horses.

[HoofJustice]

So, I'd like to know equinedriver....you put in all of this effort to finally get people to listen. To get people to finally stand up. To get people to stop being embarrassed and keeping it to themselves. To get people to finally do something....and then you fall off the face of the earth and leave all of them hanging....which makes them more embarrassed, more humiliated...defeated. Great job you did for everybody! So, were you Jill? One of Jill's friends? One of Jill's clients? Did somebody threaten you to stop what you were doing? Threaten to sue you? And if that's the case...for what?

As a result, I've heard further rumors this fall that the never ending drama continues.

So all of those people that posted on here about being wronged, has anyone done anything, spoken to someone? Anything?

I am doing something about it. Please contact me with any and all information regarding the Burnell matter. These horses and owner have moved into Marin County. Thank you for any information you have.

[COTHalter44]

While I do think it's odd and somewhat crappy that ED has disappeared, I do not think she is Jill or one of her friends based on her posting history here. Although, I could be wrong...

Thank you HoofJustice for taking this on. Something needs to be done.

Daventry, I have also heard of much drama this fall even though she's been silent on the forums, Facebook and so forth. It's never ending.

[mbm]

i would suggest that one of the "known" COTH folks team up with hoofjustice so there is another person that has the info in case this person goes "poof"

[COTHalter44]

A quick peek at HoofJustice's email reveals that he/she is from the Marin Humane Society.

[Mardi]

Glad to see this is still humming along, and people are still interested and active.

But was disappointed to read that shenanigans have continued, after all the time spent on getting the word out.

[mbm]

COTHalter44 - you might remove that email addy from this thread..... it can be seen by anyone and not just folks who have user IDs here.

[Laurierace]

I find it interesting that the humane society may be investigating. While there may or may not be a humane issue, there absolutely is a criminal element to her business that needs to be addressed for this fraud to come to an end. Not sure if they can do anything about that part or not.

[horsepoor]

COTHalter44 - you might remove that email addy from this thread..... it can be seen by anyone and not just folks who have user IDs here.

Yeah- they might not have realized the e-mail address was public (easy mistake to make when registering here) and I don't think it is right to publish it like that without permission.

[COTHalter44]

COTHalter44 - you might remove that email addy from this thread..... it can be seen by anyone and not just folks who have user IDs here.

Done. Sorry about that. I knew emails had been posted earlier in this thread so thought since it was public it was ok. My mistake.