[Jhorne89]

Curious,
have you heard from the rescue (GG?) that was offering financial support? I noticed their cheerleaders have been absent since accusing you of badmouthing the rescue....I hope you get all the help you need from local and other sources.

No, I have never heard from anyone nor spoken with anyone other than the agriculture sheriff and ASPCA.

[ldaziens]

Talk to an attorney about your situation and how to get out from under this burden.

DEFINITELY, you need an ATTORNEY to represent YOUR best interests -- especially since you own the property. The SPCA, Law Enforcement, CoTH, etc. are NOT going to protect YOU.

As a wise person recently advised me:
"On a plane, when the oxygen mask comes down; the responsible thing is to help YOURSELF first. THEN, attempt to help others"

[ldaziens]

Orange county agriculture sheriff is currently investigating. We are under no liability and were advised that we can start a civil suit against them if we want.

I cannot emphasize strongly enough that you really, really, really need to consult with an ATTORNEY. Lots of officials tell lots of people lots of different things. Your sheriff may be a wonderful person; but his job is not to protect your best interests. It sounds like at this point you are providing minimal care for these horses without compensation, so I can't see why any local authorities will be in any rush to invest the resources of time and money into this situation when there are worse fires to put out.

Please, please, please consult w/ an attorney TODAY. I am afraid you are going to end up way over your head and financially hurt by this. You have indicated that you are not in a position to take on the full financial and caregiving responsibilities for these horses; and an attorney can help you protect your interests and perhaps come up with a more immediate solution for the horses as well.

ATTORNEY - NOW!

[Bluey]

I still think that, if the horses are not taken care properly, if the officers in charge tell you you won't be responsible, I would still not take their word for it.

If this goes to court, it won't look good to say you didn't care for horses in need on your place because you were told you didn't need to, especially since you did rent them the place, so were involved with this.

Who will be calling the vet and paying said vet if one gets sick on your place?

Don't take chances, get an attorney on your side and have it put a fire under someone's behind, so the horses are cared for and moved asap.
Don't keep letting time pass, especially if the horses may not be cared for properly, no matter who's responsibility they may be.

[Jhorne89]

Update: the horses are off the property and the "owners" are still under investigation. I received an email from an acquaintance yesterday that apparently what they are telling people this time is that I was feeding my horses with their feed and not feeding theirs (which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous, it was never in the contract did me to even feed their horses their own feed!). So, once again, they find fault and blame in somebody other than themselves. Con artist to the core.

[Bluey]

Update: the horses are off the property and the "owners" are still under investigation. I received an email from an acquaintance yesterday that apparently what they are telling people this time is that I was feeding my horses with their feed and not feeding theirs (which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous, it was never in the contract did me to even feed their horses their own feed!). So, once again, they find fault and blame in somebody other than themselves. Con artist to the core.

You may want to contact your local TV station about a PSA type story on rescues, showing good ones and questionable ones and giving them your experience with a questionable one for their story.
Their protests will then sound a bit hollow.

[ldaziens]

Update: the horses are off the property and the "owners" are still under investigation. I received an email from an acquaintance yesterday that apparently what they are telling people this time is that I was feeding my horses with their feed and not feeding theirs (which is so far from the truth it's ridiculous, it was never in the contract did me to even feed their horses their own feed!). So, once again, they find fault and blame in somebody other than themselves. Con artist to the core.

Again -- get an attorney -- they are accusing you of theft and animal neglect. If those accusations are untrue, they are engaging in slander / libel. Personally, I would have an attorney at the very least draft up a letter telling them to cease and desist. Then, I would file in Small Claims Court for the unpaid boarding -- assuming the amount is under the cap.

Tme & again, it is the official court records of judgments, etc. that get these people shut down.

Also, if it is the case, make sure the Sheriff's office understands that these people were actively soliciting donations while neglecting their horses. The authorities are MUCH more interested in financial fraud than they are in animal abuse / neglect. You can read about the fraud case against Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love Horse Rescue - concerned people had repeatedly contacted the local authorities about the neglect, but it was the financial fraud that got the authorities motivated. When a group claims to be a non-profit and starts taking donations over the internet and from out of state; a lot of government entities are interested in that.

There are legitimate draft rescues that could help out these horses; but they aren't going to send these people money or buy the horses from them. It is important not to contribute money which enables them to keep getting more horses to neglect.

[Plainandtall]

Glad they are off your land.

[ldaziens]

Here is a link to a story on Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love Draft Horse Rescue, which illustrates that it took the Fraud charges to get authorities to act on the abuse & neglect -

http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Horse...128417173.html

[maxismomma]

I started to read these postings to see why a horse rescue might close. As I read I started to get a bit angry reading all these things that these people have done. I could not believe what I was reading. At one point JHORNE88 wrote that if anyone wanted to buy hay to to call Farm City and talk to the owne Chrisr. I did so I called. Chris is not the owner. He is the son of the owner. He makes delivers. This horse rescue does not do business with them and the gentlemen who answered the phone said he did not know of them but he was aware of a woman named Jessica Horne. He told me about her horses and the condition of them.
I could not sleep that night.
I found many things disturbing in this thread. It reminded me of high school with people ganging up on a rumour that one of the kids started spreading. I started looking into the names and people.
I will tell you that the people who are responsible for this thread are very lucky that this slander was not made against me. That being said, many things are true but most were not.
JHorne88 and MRomanelloe are friends. If they were not before these people moved thier own horses they are now.
The pictures of these dying horses were not horses who died from starvation. "Bleeding out: is caused by being poisioned.
A Vet and other professionals are not going to risk thier professional careers and financial stability by standing up and lying for someone they are not related to. By stating that you ave slandered them and by rights they should be coming after you.
They have been investigated numerous times. The male who worked for OC was notallowed to be involved in any of these. He was not let go for any reason having to due with the horse rescue.
The fed for the horses was locked in the trailer because there was no feed room for them at JHORNE88's property.
MRomanello adopted a connemerra pony not a mustang. If she thinks she has one...well either she does not know horses or she as gotten rid of this one and got another some other place.

I am asking that if JHORNE88 or MRomanello are sure of all that thye have posted, tat they go to the TV station and get them involved. Go after the VET. Get the authorities to ask for feed bills and records of horses health.

I have a very bitter taste in my mouth for people who bad mouth others but do not have the stones to go and take care of the animals in question. Go to the people and ask to be able to feed them when they are unable to fed them. Water them. You say you are a vet tech. I can only assume a small animal tech because if you were a large animal ou would have called in favors or gone to your own boss or former boss or vet and get the help you need. My opinion is that you and these people do not gel and because of that you have taken it upon yourself to let the world know what you say you have found. (date stamoed pictures are the best).

A bit of housekeeping. My comments are made by what I have been able to get from talkign to various people. JHORNE88 started me thinking to do this in her thread of calling the feed store. What was told to me was heresay of course and must be treated as such. When you rented this land you must have done a lease or some other type of paperwork to protect yourself and keep records for your taxes (you are claiming this rental income on your taxes I am assuming...lol). When you do that any other expenses can be claimed if you can document them. Just be sure to keep your records straight as it is a bear to straighten up at a later date.

Stephanie Hanchett has nothing to do with the Florida Draft Horse Rescue. To add them to this link is a fine line. She also has nothing to do with GG from what I can find out in my research.

I ask that all of you reading this thread take all comments including mine with a grain of salt. Sometimes when feelings get hurt people get angry and feel they have no other recourse but to lash out and try to hurt those who have hurt them. We all have done it to some extent at one time or another. On a public forum it can cause unrepairable harm. I am sure each of these woman involved felt they were acting in the best interests of the animals when the best interest would be to try to take care of the anmals until the authorities could act. After all, it is the horses that matter, not the name calling and mud slinging.

[LauraKY]

More newbies! Popcorn and margarita time?

[luvmytbs]

More newbies! Popcorn and margarita time?

I am not even sure I understood what mm was trying to relay.

[Bluey]

More newbies! Popcorn and margarita time?

I can't tell from all that who the house guest is for or against.

[ldaziens]

My personal opinion is that when one starts taking money from other people; one should expect a higher level of scrutiny. It's not high school; it's legally responsible grownups.

And, I know that I have read a few too many rescue horror stories. With the bad economy, there are more and more horses being neglected. When neglected horses are seized, they go to rescues. So, it is especially heartbreaking & angering to hear about horses being removed from one bad situation and ending up worse off at a rescue -- when inevitably that rescue raised funds using publicity from the seizure.

There are a couple of other threads on CoTH now about current seizures, which I personally think, based on what I have read thus far, needed to happen; but there are real concerns about what will happen to the seized horses given questions about the "rescuers":
Washington Dr. & Arabian Breeder raided by DEA for running a "pill mill"
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ght=cch&page=6

" Anderson acknowledged that many of the seized horses appear well-fed and that food and water was readily available in the Diller barns."
...
"Anderson has taken personal charge of the rescue operation and seems determined to avoid the disappointments that occurred in the county’s last large-scale horse rescue – the Darlene Wilson 40-horse episode of 2010. In this occurrence, the PCAC tried to partner with a local equine rescue organization that ultimately found itself without sufficient resources to properly care for its initial installment of twenty horses. Ultimately, the rescue group had to euthanize about ten of the horses, and eventually the PCAC had to intervene and take a handful of horses. Finally, the remaining ten horses were court –ordered to be sold.

Further, criminal charges against Ms. Wilson have stretched out through the months, and the drama has shown the difficulties in a successful prosecution of horse abuse."
Excerpted from-
http://themountainnewswa.net/2012/09...investigation/

And, in Nevada,

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...&highlight=cch

Aside from the misery "rescues gone bad" inflict on the horses in their care; the bad rescues are defrauding donors AND the bad rescues do great harm to the good rescues who could have used those donated dollars effectively. Charitable giving and fraud go hand-in-hand - unfortunately.

FWIW, I mentioned the Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love story; because it's a case study in the "authorities" doing nothing when faced with severe neglect / abuse -- but perking up when they realized there was a financial fraud case there that was easy to prove since most donations were made via the internet (PayPal).

I don't know what the answer is, but I try to make sure that I do homework before donating to anything. And, I don't know much about Gentle Giant except that when I lived in DC, I looked into visiting; and they seemed to have lots of visiting times and opportunities to volunteer -- which is one positive indicator. I like to see a professionally run non-profit where there is an independent Board of Directors and paid professional employees to run operations and supervise volunteers. I am not opposed to a well run non-profit taking in lots of donations, paying competitive wages, and having a sizeable nest egg / reserve fund -- as long as things are transparent to donors; professional is better than well intentioned bleeding heart in my book.

[Bluey]

As your question why authorities don't do more about bad rescues taking money and not doing what they should with it, about that kind of fraud, maybe because it is low on their workload.
Why, because if gullible people want to donate just because there is a well told sob story asking for money, it really is up to the one donating to pause, use common sense and not donate to just anyone with it's hand out.

Sure, it is illegal, but the consequences, that some are out some donated money, that is very low in the large load of work police, the courts and those in charge have to handle.

[cowgirljenn]

As your question why authorities don't do more about bad rescues taking money and not doing what they should with it, about that kind of fraud, maybe because it is low on their workload.
Why, because if gullible people want to donate just because there is a well told sob story asking for money, it really is up to the one donating to pause, use common sense and not donate to just anyone with it's hand out.

Sure, it is illegal, but the consequences, that some are out some donated money, that is very low in the large load of work police, the courts and those in charge have to handle.

I think that's probably a big part of it. Plus I think often the people who give money and are defrauded don't come forward to complain. They get mad, they refuse to donate again, but they either don't know there is something that can be done or they don't want to go through all the stress of getting involved.

[Plainandtall]

Idaziens- You made a very interesting point:

"FWIW, I mentioned the Stephanie Hanchett / A Ton of Love story; because it's a case study in the "authorities" doing nothing when faced with severe neglect / abuse -- but perking up when they realized there was a financial fraud case there that was easy to prove since most donations were made via the internet (PayPal). "

Even though the story is plainly told- I never connected that obvious point you made there.!

[ldaziens]

As your question why authorities don't do more about bad rescues taking money and not doing what they should with it, about that kind of fraud, maybe because it is low on their workload.
Why, because if gullible people want to donate just because there is a well told sob story asking for money, it really is up to the one donating to pause, use common sense and not donate to just anyone with it's hand out.

Sure, it is illegal, but the consequences, that some are out some donated money, that is very low in the large load of work police, the courts and those in charge have to handle.

Sorry, but I guess I wasn't clear --

The authorities are VERY INTERESTED in the financial fraud aspect -- much easier to pursue defrauding donors / tax fraud / etc. than putting in the effort to prosecute for abuse / neglect. When people are soliciting donations via the internet - 99% of the time it's via PayPal; so all of the "evidence" is in one place.

[HydroPHILE]

Sorry, but I guess I wasn't clear --

The authorities are VERY INTERESTED in the financial fraud aspect -- much easier to pursue defrauding donors / tax fraud / etc. than putting in the effort to prosecute for abuse / neglect. When people are soliciting donations via the internet - 99% of the time it's via PayPal; so all of the "evidence" is in one place.

And that's why gangsters in the 20s and 30s were arrested for tax fraud/financial fraud versus any of their other crimes. Tax fraud, etc. has an easy-to-establish paper trail.

[MRomanello]

I started to read these postings to see why a horse rescue might close. As I read I started to get a bit angry reading all these things that these people have done. I could not believe what I was reading. At one point JHORNE88 wrote that if anyone wanted to buy hay to to call Farm City and talk to the owne Chrisr. I did so I called. Chris is not the owner. He is the son of the owner. He makes delivers. This horse rescue does not do business with them and the gentlemen who answered the phone said he did not know of them but he was aware of a woman named Jessica Horne. He told me about her horses and the condition of them.
I could not sleep that night.
I found many things disturbing in this thread. It reminded me of high school with people ganging up on a rumour that one of the kids started spreading. I started looking into the names and people.
I will tell you that the people who are responsible for this thread are very lucky that this slander was not made against me. That being said, many things are true but most were not.
JHorne88 and MRomanelloe are friends. If they were not before these people moved thier own horses they are now.
The pictures of these dying horses were not horses who died from starvation. "Bleeding out: is caused by being poisioned.
A Vet and other professionals are not going to risk thier professional careers and financial stability by standing up and lying for someone they are not related to. By stating that you ave slandered them and by rights they should be coming after you.
They have been investigated numerous times. The male who worked for OC was notallowed to be involved in any of these. He was not let go for any reason having to due with the horse rescue.
The fed for the horses was locked in the trailer because there was no feed room for them at JHORNE88's property.
MRomanello adopted a connemerra pony not a mustang. If she thinks she has one...well either she does not know horses or she as gotten rid of this one and got another some other place.

I am asking that if JHORNE88 or MRomanello are sure of all that thye have posted, tat they go to the TV station and get them involved. Go after the VET. Get the authorities to ask for feed bills and records of horses health.

I have a very bitter taste in my mouth for people who bad mouth others but do not have the stones to go and take care of the animals in question. Go to the people and ask to be able to feed them when they are unable to fed them. Water them. You say you are a vet tech. I can only assume a small animal tech because if you were a large animal ou would have called in favors or gone to your own boss or former boss or vet and get the help you need. My opinion is that you and these people do not gel and because of that you have taken it upon yourself to let the world know what you say you have found. (date stamoed pictures are the best).

A bit of housekeeping. My comments are made by what I have been able to get from talkign to various people. JHORNE88 started me thinking to do this in her thread of calling the feed store. What was told to me was heresay of course and must be treated as such. When you rented this land you must have done a lease or some other type of paperwork to protect yourself and keep records for your taxes (you are claiming this rental income on your taxes I am assuming...lol). When you do that any other expenses can be claimed if you can document them. Just be sure to keep your records straight as it is a bear to straighten up at a later date.

Stephanie Hanchett has nothing to do with the Florida Draft Horse Rescue. To add them to this link is a fine line. She also has nothing to do with GG from what I can find out in my research.

I ask that all of you reading this thread take all comments including mine with a grain of salt. Sometimes when feelings get hurt people get angry and feel they have no other recourse but to lash out and try to hurt those who have hurt them. We all have done it to some extent at one time or another. On a public forum it can cause unrepairable harm. I am sure each of these woman involved felt they were acting in the best interests of the animals when the best interest would be to try to take care of the anmals until the authorities could act. After all, it is the horses that matter, not the name calling and mud slinging.

This is quite entertaining because obviously you are involved in some way. The horses weren't poisoned and no vet was involved. The vet that was claimed to have been involved by Leslie and AC had no idea and was PISSED. He was also put on the board WITHOUT his knowledge. Second person put on the board without the person's knowledge.

I just met Jesse through this because she was FLOORED at the fact that Leslie was not caring for her horses AGAIN. This is what she does. Leslie floats from place to place and doesn't care for her animals. Never will. It's upsetting. It'll never change. Leslie is about herself, not her animals. The fact that you stand up for her is absolutely SICKENING.

My horse, which his the same horse I got from Leslie, after talking to other professionals and someone who knew Libby for a while said that Libby was a mustang/Connemara. Not a full Connemara. So nice try for trying to aim low...it's entertaining. I love my horse. Would never get rid of her for anything. It was funny that Leslie said she would do a routine check on her, NOPE! Never did. Wouldn't have minded though. All 5 of my horses look beautiful and wicked healthy. Spoiled rotten. One of which is a draft. Never had a problem like Leslie claimed to have with hers. Any horse that left her property underweight gained weight beautifully. Any horse that went to her property at a healthy weight, lost weight. Sooo, explain that one?

It's disheartening to hear people believe someone who is an incredible manipulator. Someone who can look at these photos or knows what Leslie has done and CONTINUE to support her, has to be an idiot...that's just my opinion. But ignorance is bliss. She had slandered my name up and down this area with really stupid lies, I really don't care. This is about the horses and what they need and the ones who have been to hell and back or the ones that weren't so lucky to come back. This is about the horses that deserve a family who love them and would do anything for them, instead of wondering if they were going to eat that day. When is it ok to throw ONE (1) flake of hay PER RESCUE HORSE one night because you didn't feel like feeling? (That has happened multiple times) There were blind horses in that paddock. they didn't get to eat that night. So how is any of this ok? But you just keep looking the other way. I'm going to pray to God that you aren't in the rescue world, so I don't have to worry about the animals who are in the same bad situation getting looked over because you feel like being ignorant.