[SilverCreek]

We are on the official countdown! It is now 24 days till the start of the 70 Day Test! We are very excited about the lineup and will be releasing an official list closer to the starting date. This year, the test will begin on August 30 with the first vet check and Sept 1 as the official training start date. If you have a stallion that you may be interested in sending, please contact us as soon as possible! We are also very happy to announce that we will be having two ponies for the Pony Test! As mentioned before, the new website for the stallion test is www.nastalliontesting.com. Stay tuned...

[SilverCreek]

The lineup is getting finalized! Again, we will accept late entries from the 2012 inspection tours. This will be our largest test yet and we are very excited! We will accomodate newly approved stallions, so please don't hesitate to contact us. We will be announcing the list at the end of next week. Stay tuned....

[DownYonder]

Can't wait to see the final line-up! I already know of several who are making the trip, but I am really curious to see who else ends up there. I hope you get a good group of high class colts!

And thanks again for all you and Summer do to make this possible! I know it takes monumental effort, but a NA stallion test accepted by the European registries is incredibly important to those who endeavor to breed on a par with Europe - esp. for those in registries with reciprocity with Germany.

[hluing]

Wonderful news! I will look forward to seeing the line up and wish everyone the best of luck.

[Equine Reproduction]

Edward Scissorhands is packing his suitcase. We're out buying him his new school clothes ! Ugh...why do we DO this???? It doesn't get any less stressful and I think it's even MORE stressful this year because he's from our breeding program. But, I have to say, they do a great job with them at the stallion testing. All of our's that have gone through the testings have come home better citizens. Rebecca Brown (Harry's trainer and rider) has nothing but accolades for how well he was going under saddle when she got him. And considering this was his first year of showing, it appears it went well

[mbm]

Do we know yet which ponies are going?

[Cartier]

The facility looks very nice, love the images in the photo gallery on the website. I’d image that at this point in time things are running like a smoothly oiled machine. Good luck to everyone… it’s an amazing adventure.

[rodawn]

Really like the new website. Contains all the pertinent information that one needs.

[Fourbeats]

I am so excited to hear that Edward Scissorhands will be there! That just might be my excuse to make it up for the final weekend. Yipee!

[RyTimMick]

Great job Summer. The website is great.

Tim

[mbm]

agree the website is super! lots of info - much appreciated

[SilverCreek]

Thanks everyone! We are very excited about the lineup. We will have approx. 22-24 stallions (more than last year) for the 70 Day, 1 for the 30 Day, and 2 for the Pony Test. Both are 4 year old German Riding Ponies. We will be releasing the list next week.

We were also very excited to release the website and are glad that everyone likes it. It truly was a group collaboration and Barbara has been working around the clock to make sure all the info was uploaded correctly. If anyone has suggestions, please PM us. Also, a new feature we have added this week to the website is a blog and this will be regularly posted on during the test. Not the same as live feed, but still educational none the less. (And let's leave that can of worms closed. ) All in all, we truly believe this will be our best test yet. We have a wide variety attending the test and stallions of high caliber it seems. Only 13 more days!!! Where did the year go?!

[stoicfish]

And thanks again for all you and Summer do to make this possible! I know it takes monumental effort, but a NA stallion test accepted by the European registries is incredibly important to those who endeavor to breed on a par with Europe - esp. for those in registries with reciprocity with Germany.

Question. Is the test accepted by Hanoverian, Holsteiner, KWPN and Oldenburg in Europe? So any registered animal with these group that goes through the test (and passes) automatically gets recognized as a Verband approved stallion?
Is there some that do not recognize the test?

And second question is how many NA registries actually have full reciprocity with their European versions?
You made me wonder DY.


Good luck to all the stallion owners!

[Cartier]

Question. Is the test accepted by Hanoverian, Holsteiner, KWPN and Oldenburg in Europe? So any registered animal with these group that goes through the test (and passes) automatically gets recognized as a Verband approved stallion?
Is there some that do not recognize the test?

And second question is how many NA registries actually have full reciprocity with their European versions?
You made me wonder DY.


Good luck to all the stallion owners!

I think the GOV and RPSI have "full reciprocity with their European versions."

The stallions are not automatically "approved." They still have to be presented (often at the end of the test) and approved / licensed (insert correct terminology), but the test scores can serve as part of the basis for approval, along with pedigree and phenotype.

About full reciprocity, it's always sounded so impressive, but we were wondering, in the past thirty years how many American Oldenburg breeders have been selling their stallion’s frozen semen to German breeders. The number should be at least twenty, thirty, forty.... something like that. Do ya think there is the GOV version of Judy Yancey in Germany selling German Oldenburg breeders the frozen semen of American-bred and born Oldenburgs? I'm guessing there is not. My sense is that regardless of the Oldenburg registry(and regardless of whether it be foals, riding horses or frozen semen), the amount of sales from the USA breeder of products bred and approved here in the USA going to European countries has been about the same (for both Old/NA and GOV), which is to say, less that .0001% of what is produced here in the USA. So reciprocity with Europe may be utterly moot. It just sounds really nice.

Based upon the past thirty years, even if an American bred the next Farouche or Totilas, the European breeders probably wouldn't care, nor would they purchase it.

[Toadie's mom]

What part (if any) of the testing process is open to the public (spectators)? I need to make a trip to Tulsa, and would love to come out. I've been wanting to contact you to see Apiro anyway

[DownYonder]

Question. Is the test accepted by Hanoverian, Holsteiner, KWPN and Oldenburg in Europe? So any registered animal with these group that goes through the test (and passes) automatically gets recognized as a Verband approved stallion?
Is there some that do not recognize the test?

And second question is how many NA registries actually have full reciprocity with their European versions?
You made me wonder DY.

OHBS/GOV has full reciprocity with its mother Verband in Germany, and I believe AHS does also. RPSI and the Westphalians are two others, although I don't think the latter inspects stallions here in NA.

I don't know about the Holsteiner Verband, but I don't think they recognize the NA test, nor do they recognize stallions licensed by AHHA. Maybe Tim or Reece can step in here and confirm.

I don't think KWPN recognizes it, either. Don't know about the Trakehners, or SWANA, or DWB.

So once a stallion has been inspected and licensed by official registry inspectors, and he has passed an accredited performance test with a score acceptable to that registry, he is considered fully approved. I imagine most - maybe all - of the stallions going to Silver Creek have already been inspected and accepted by at least one registry and now just need to meet the performance requirements. Some will be presented at the end of the test to additional registries.

The advantage isn't so much so the stallion owners can sell semen to Europe - although that option does exist - but so the foals from those stallions can be sent to Germany and be fully recognized in the studbook there. That means a filly can be eligible for the highest mare book and colts can be eligible for stallion status. Naysayers aside, it is a huge draw for some breeders, especially those who maintain breeding operations on both sides of the Atlantic.

[Cartier]

The advantage isn't so much so the stallion owners can sell semen to Europe - although that option does exist - but so the foals from those stallions can be sent to Germany and be fully recognized in the studbook there. That means a filly can be eligible for the highest mare book and colts can be eligible for stallion status. Naysayers aside, it is a huge draw for some breeders, especially those who maintain breeding operations on both sides of the Atlantic.

I think that in the context of this thread about our stallion testing, it’s fair to say that one important consideration a stallion owner would have in pursuing licensing is that they wish to have as large a market as possible for their stallion’s semen.

But setting that point aside, I understand what you are saying, and I’m not saying that it doesn’t sound impressive… and wouldn’t be a great benefit to American Oldenburg Breeders, I’m just wondering if, as a fact, it has ever really meant anything to the majority of American Oldenburg breeders, with horses bred, born, inspected, approved and/or licensed here in the USA.

We [Americans] have been breeding Oldenburgs in this country since the GOV came over in about 1983 (roughly 30 years). Let’s say that there are about 5000 Warmblood foals born each year in this country, and of those, about 2000 are Oldenburg’s. (This is just an average, obviously some years were higher, some lower.) That would amount to about 60,000 American bred Oldenburg over the past thirty years. I’ll concede that the numbers used to be higher than they are now, so let’s cut the number in half. Let’s say that there have been roughly 30,000 Oldenburgs foaled, inspected, presented and /or licensed in the USA.

Of those 30,000 American bred Oldenburgs born here over the past 30 years, how many have gone to a European Union country or benefited from this “full reciprocity”? Of the stallions we’ve produced in this country in the past 30 years, how many have sold foals or semen to the Verband members in Germany? For “we have reciprocity with our European counterpart” to be meaningful, there should be dozens of breeders a year that benefit from that reciprocity.

As for the relatively small and elite group of Americans who are also breeding in Germany… they’re all wonderful, but it seems to me that they have their horses bred, raised, trained, presented, inspected, licensed etc. abroad. Their horses may come here as adults, after the approval processes are over.

The flow is generally, “from them to us.” For whatever reasons, we buy what they are breeding, but they do not buy what we breed. I can’t recall a significant number of Oldenburgs bred, born and approved here that are flowing the other direction.

As I said, “full reciprocity with the European counterpart ” sounds wonderful. But, based upon what has actually occurred over the past thirty years, for American breeders it’s almost an irrelevant feature /benefit. In theory it’d be great if it went the other way, but as a fact, it just doesn’t.

Given our access to bloodlines from all over the world, after 30 years, we American breeders should have our own stallion dynasties, based upon our American bred equivalents of Contender, Weltmeyer, Rubenstein, Donnerhall, Florestan, Alme, Sandro Hit etc. We can breed extremely competitive Reigning horses, Saddlebreds, Thoroughbreds, and Arabs, etc… but we can’t crack the WB thing.

Hopefully this stallion test will help open doors (markets) around the world for American WB stallion owners. I wish all the stallion owners well. Cleary the care and professionalism of this testing facility is excellent.

[stoicfish]

I think the access to stallion testing is definitely going in the right direction for NA breeders. This was not a backhanded question. But, like any business model I do not think that the European registries want to make it easy for us to create a competing product. That simple. And why should they? I think they have allowed as much as they have in order to have their product relevant once it sets foot on this continent. In other words, their mares would not have a market here if there was no way to register the foals. But honestly I am sure they contemplate how best to keep the market without us eventually not needing them as much as we do.
They have the numbers and that is a huge advantage in breeding. For every great horse that comes from Great Sire, there is many average ones.

[Blume Farm]

I think the access to stallion testing is definitely going in the right direction for NA breeders. This was not a backhanded question. But, like any business model I do not think that the European registries want to make it easy for us to create a competing product. That simple. And why should they? I think they have allowed as much as they have in order to have their product relevant once it sets foot on this continent. In other words, their mares would not have a market here if there was no way to register the foals. But honestly I am sure they contemplate how best to keep the market without us eventually not needing them as much as we do.
They have the numbers and that is a huge advantage in breeding. For every great horse that comes from Great Sire, there is many average ones.

For sure I am not an expert, nor a "person in the inner circle", but I have spent a lot of time with the folks at the Hannoveraner Verband and I think they see the market exactly opposite of what you said (at least what I think you said). They see the future of the Hanoverian horse market greater in emerging countries rather than in their own. They spend a huge amount of time and money marketing their horses, foals, broodmares, stallions and competition horses to outside countries including NA, Asia and beyond. Based on hours of conversations I have had with them they truly want to see the NA market be on par with theirs (in terms of quality). I do not think, at least the Hannoveraner Verband, sees it as a "thus or them" but rather a growing of the Hanoverian horse.

I think the challenges we have here in the US have been discussed at length on this forum: size of the country, lack of young horse training, lack of equestrian sport enthusiasm in the US (at least for dressage, jumpers, eventers. Western is a whole 'nother ball game), lack of generations of breeding, raising, and training warmblood horses. It just simply is different here. If you attend a mare show in Germany (just a small, little mare show) on a Wednesday afternoon, in poor weather, there will be a crowd. The chairs will be filled, there will be people young and old, male and female, standing there studying and discussing their horses, chatting, drinking beer, eating hot dogs. For them it is a social event ingrained in their culture. That just wouldn't happen here. We can't even fill the stands for a CDI*** Dresage Show in Raleigh, NC!!!

So in my opinion, it is not that we don't have the genetics here in the US, but we don't have the culture nor the vast wealth of generations of knowledge. For that reason I think it is important to stay attached to the "mother" associations. I will put my flame suit on now....but instead of thinking that the US must be separate from Europe I think we should aim to be part of them, an extension of them. This way we can continue to learn and expand upon their knowledge and their horse culture. I don't know anything about the stallion licensing here in the US but I hope that it gains enough credibility to be considered on par with those in Europe. I hope that they keep standards high and the paths of communication open with the warmbood regestries here and in Europe.

[Sonesta]

I see the reciprocity aspect as benefitting U.S. breeders in that we can tell prospective buyers that they don't have to go to Europe to get a "real" Hanoverian/Oldenburg/Zweibruker/etc for reason that ours, having reciprocity with the German registries, ARE the real deal.