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  1. #41
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    It is neither a question of her age nor the influence of her husband. The key question is her performance only. I think she is fit and gutsy as ever. But her boldness is not an advantage. Many times her boldness was a disadvantage. Remember her many falls and injuries (Badminton, Burghley, Rolex Kentucky, etc). Karen is a tough rider, not the best stylist.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddygirl View Post
    My understanding is that David's candidacy for coach was presented with Karen's statement that she would no longer ride for the team. The Active Riders voted for him with this as a condition. Would he have been selected if she hadn't said this? I certainly have no idea. But I don't see that KOC now gets to pull the old bait-and-switch routine and now try to ride for the team. It changes the conditions of his coaching position and it goes to his credibility. If she wanted to ride for the team she should have been honest and said so and David could have run for the job under those conditions. It's a lousy way to start off his coaching job, "oh sorry we were lying!!"
    Exactly. If they hadn't made the statement at the time of the selection process, it wouldn't matter. But they did, so it does.



  3. #43
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    The most simple and best answer would be to send David back to coach Canada, install Wofford as US coach and let Karen ride on the team if we need her.



  4. #44
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    Nah, you guys can have David now. I want to see how this Toddy rumour develops



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larksmom View Post
    What is this about? Was PD in contention for chef? Is there another Dutton? I know i sometimes ask stupid questions, but there is so much to learn!
    Its not a stupid question, there were quite a few applicants for the job, including Philip Dutton and Robert Costello, who presented their application as a team. Some of the other applicants were Jimmy Wofford and Olympic gold medalist Leslie Law, and others equally well qualified although I can't remember their names at the moment. We had lots of good options besides DOC, and if his wife volunteered to withdraw from competing then they should keep their word.



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzy Lady View Post
    Nah, you guys can have David now. I want to see how this Toddy rumour develops
    I want Leslie Law. I don't think having a UK-based coach is ideal, much as Todd would be great.



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backstage View Post
    I want Leslie Law. I don't think having a UK-based coach is ideal, much as Todd would be great.
    That's just logistics. No biggie



  8. #48
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    Jun. 22, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayhew View Post
    Ah. I see. Certainly, if it is a promise that she made, she should keep it.

    I don't really understand some of the antipathy toward the O'Connors. David and Sally had some connection to the barn I grew up at in Utah. He bought one of their horses (On a Mission) and David gave frequent clinics there. He rode my horse once and I didn't clean my saddle for months! I had the biggest crush on him. Maybe because he was the first man I had ever seen riding English.
    With no offense intended, there a lot of folks on this board who have trained with, competed against, bought horses from, or sat on committees with DOC who have a "more complete" picture of who DOC, the non-Olympic icon, is.

    I would say that those who are further removed from Areas 1-3 don't know as much of the inside skinny as those within the east coast juggernaut.

    Regarding Karen:

    I believe that this is not so much about anyone reneging (though it is that imo) but rather that they said what they thought was right at the time and looking at her string then, it was a very logical statement. And now it's 2 years later, she has nicer horses and maybe she has realized, "But I don't want to stop. I am doing even better. MLM has improved my show jumping and brought in really nice horses that are future team quality rides." (or something to that effect)

    Whatever the right thing to do you do have to admire her consistency in the upper echelons of the sport. I believe she will do whatever the consensus deems of her, but when in 2 years DOC selects his first team and we all start howling about who's on it (as always happens) remember this moment. Remember this spate of indecision and division about the future of KOC. My point is simply that already we know team selections never please all of the people any of them time. So whether she's in or out people will be upset.

    Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by LookmaNohands View Post
    The most simple and best answer would be to send David back to coach Canada, install Wofford as US coach and let Karen ride on the team if we need her.

    Good idea
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherford View Post
    Good idea
    It is a good idea, although after reading COTH's recent interview with Mike Plumb, I think he would be another to consider as well.



  11. #51
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    Didn't Andrew Hoy apply as well? I seem to recall that it wasn't a joint application with Bettina, but did he even get the courtesy of a phone interview?

    The deck was stacked for DOC from the beginning. After all he's president and close to dictator of the organization that's doing the hiring.

    Given that the man obviously has no sense at all of what constitutes a conflict of interest, I predict that KOC will be riding for the team in the future--"because the US needs her so desperately". Oddly enough, in all her years of international competing, she does not have a particularly good individual record--at least not since 2000 or thereabouts at the top level. I don't consider the Pan Games top level, and I doubt if anyone else does either.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    It is a good idea, although after reading COTH's recent interview with Mike Plumb, I think he would be another to consider as well.
    Agree - but it also sounds like he is in a more peaceful place and, if I were him, I wouldn't want the politics and aggravation!!
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    Didn't Andrew Hoy apply as well? I seem to recall that it wasn't a joint application with Bettina, but did he even get the courtesy of a phone interview?

    The deck was stacked for DOC from the beginning. After all he's president and close to dictator of the organization that's doing the hiring.

    Given that the man obviously has no sense at all of what constitutes a conflict of interest, I predict that KOC will be riding for the team in the future--"because the US needs her so desperately". Oddly enough, in all her years of international competing, she does not have a particularly good individual record--at least not since 2000 or thereabouts at the top level. I don't consider the Pan Games top level, and I doubt if anyone else does either.
    Yes, Andrew Hoy did apply, that was the name I couldn't remember. And I am sure you are right about Karen riding on the team, dictator is the appropriate word and DOC's first priority will always be what is best for the O'Connors, first and foremost.

    And yeah, Karen has a dismal record at previous Olympics.



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weatherford View Post
    Agree - but it also sounds like he is in a more peaceful place and, if I were him, I wouldn't want the politics and aggravation!!
    That's true enough, he has earned his right to a more peaceful existence, and surely he wouldn't find that as coach of the team.



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred View Post
    LH just a correction.
    Ian Millar is 65 (b.1947) and I believe this is his TENTH Olympics.
    He's even older than we are.

    Yep. I am so old that I forgot to add in the "US". She is the oldest US Olympian of any sport. Ian and the Japanese dressage rider have her beat by a mile. I don't know if there are any oldies in other sports.

    Although I suspect we can rule out oldies in swimming and track and field. :
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xctrygirl View Post
    With no offense intended, there a lot of folks on this board who have trained with, competed against, bought horses from, or sat on committees with DOC who have a "more complete" picture of who DOC, the non-Olympic icon, is.


    Emily
    No offense taken. I was just impressed that he had the time for a teenage girl and her Dachsund-shaped Appendix QH.



  17. #57
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    @ Mayhew,

    Since I don't know that reference I will assume it might have been from a clinic you watched him in?

    If so... doesn't that imply he was paid to give time to the girl with the dachsund shaped Qh? (Great mental pic btw!!)

    If not, if it was during a normal day, I didn't say the man was an angry ogre like creature that must only be approached by 4* riders and Jim Wildasin... LOL. He can do nice things sometimes.

    ~Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries



  18. #58
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    And he can do mean, rotten, nasty things to people who are totally and completely innocent and have NOTHING whatsoever to do with his particular problem. Ask me how I know.

    But back to the Karen question.

    I dread this coaching change because I fear that now a power trip in American eventing will commence, and I'm not convinced the architect of it is going to be a benevolent dictator. That's my opinion, and I'd say it to his face. I think there will be people that he's going to work against to keep off the team or from team consideraton. He's a strong personality who has been very, very involved in US equestrian politics for a long time, has many friends and supporters throughout the world. Long way of saying he's going to get what he wants. He's got the political capital.

    I think if the team needs an experienced rider with a proven mount, DOC will find a way to get them on it. No matter who it is, what was said, what was in the contract, or what it looks like ethically.

    Edited to add: and the reason I think this will happen is he wants to win. And that is one thing we can all agree on.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    Exactly....you chose a coach without such a conflict of interests. It is not like there were no other very qualified choices for the coaching job.

    Karen is a fabulous rider with some nice horses. But if her husband is the coach...then NO, she should not ride on a team that such coach has significant influence over. And her stepping aside was used as a "selling" point to get David appointed.

    ETA: I do hope that she keeps competing. Would be great to see her win Badminton or Burghley or Rolex...or how about a nice grand slam!

    THIS.

    What concerns me nost about KOC is the history of her comments relative to the team. When it became apparent that her husband was being considered for the job or maybe it was after he got it, then she said she would "step down". Then some time later she threw all that out the window. It reminds me of politicians who make compaign promises to help get them elected and then later they change and go back on their promises.

    Regardless of how good she is as a rider, the fact that she said one thing and then reneged on it makes me no longer interested in seeing her on the team.



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LookmaNohands View Post
    The most simple and best answer would be to send David back to coach Canada, install Wofford as US coach and let Karen ride on the team if we need her.
    This^^ again.

    Not Mike Plumb. I rode in a clinic with him about a dozen years ago. He couldn't teach then and I doubt he has improved, very sorry to say.



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