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  1. #1
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    Feb. 11, 2008
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    Default Should Karen Continue to Ride for the US??

    Now that the dust has settled on Olympic Eventing for another four years, I believe this is an important question. We discussed when DOC was made whatever his title is. Many definitely wanted Karen out of contention for Team consideration. I felt that David would probably bend over backward not to show favoritism but, if, Karen had a horse capable of helping the US, then she should be put on the Team.

    Face it, Karen is our most experienced and decorated active rider. Her results in London were by far the best for the US Team. She finished top ten after the second round of show jumping. Yes, her horse had previous Olympic experience but when I first saw her on Mr. Medicott, I thought there was no way in (fill in the blank) that she would be ready in time for London.

    First, she received this horse in December? She couldn't start hard work right away because I assume he had to go through some acclimation process.

    Second, I thought MM appeared to be a "man's" horse. (Feminists kindly forget the diatribes because I are a women). Even if she could eventually grow into him, he was strong, quirky and independent.

    Third, this pair is just starting to get good together. She can definitely improve on his dressage which certainly wasn't terrible two days ago. She can also cut out the time faults as the two become more in sync and the course in London was probably not his favorite cup of tea.

    Karen also has a lovely mare in Veronica as a backup. Mandiba seems to be on track to finally reach the potential he showed before Beijing and there are also probably other future stars in Karen's barn that are unknown to me at this time.

    Look at Karen's performance today. The pressure had to be immense with Boyd out and she delivered, not once, but twice. After Phillip's problems, she was the one shining light on this team.

    Look at her previous record: Three Olympic Teams, 2 with medals, several WEG Teams, at least one with a medal and on a European Team. Note: Forgive me, Karen, if I have forgotten anything as most is from memory.

    Karen has probably ridden successfully almost every important course in the world. She was Jim Wofford's choice to take over his string of horse when he retired and at a time when women were not as prevalent as they are today.

    Now you please tell me why Karen should not continue as a mainstay on the US Team just because David will be involved in Team selection? Does the US Team not need her right now? If I were a young up-and-coming rider on the US Team, I know I would feel better knowing that Karen had my back and that I had her wealth of knowledge to draw from.

    Would GBR leave Mary King home if her husband magically appeared on the GBR selection committee? You get the picture.

    Unsling the arrows.



  2. #2
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    May. 23, 2006
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    Default

    there is another thread on this on the eventing forum.



  3. #3
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    Jun. 29, 2004
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    Default

    Didn't she agree to step down when David took over? If so, she needs to do that. Personally I would rather have almost anyone but DOC as the coach.



  4. #4
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by voltaire51147 View Post

    Would GBR leave Mary King home if her husband magically appeared on the GBR selection committee? You get the picture.

    Unsling the arrows.
    You would avoid compromising an asset like Mary.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._



  5. #5
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    Jan. 19, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    You would avoid compromising an asset like Mary.

    Exactly....you chose a coach without such a conflict of interests. It is not like there were no other very qualified choices for the coaching job.

    Karen is a fabulous rider with some nice horses. But if her husband is the coach...then NO, she should not ride on a team that such coach has significant influence over. And her stepping aside was used as a "selling" point to get David appointed.

    ETA: I do hope that she keeps competing. Would be great to see her win Badminton or Burghley or Rolex...or how about a nice grand slam!
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Jul. 31, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  6. #6
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    Nov. 13, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornfreenowexpensive View Post
    Exactly....you chose a coach without such a conflict of interests. It is not like there were no other very qualified choices for the coaching job.

    Karen is a fabulous rider with some nice horses. But if her husband is the coach...then NO, she should not ride on a team that such coach has significant influence over. And her stepping aside was used as a "selling" point to get David appointed.
    This. It would strike me as hypocritical at best if Karen rode on the team with her husband as coach. Also, she's had how many olympics under her belt now? I think its time to step aside and let others try, otherwise when Karen finally does retire there wont be anyone with enough experience at international competitions to replace her. Developing young riders appears to be enough of a contentious issue in the US as it is....
    "Choose to chance the rapids, and dare to dance the tides" - Garth Brooks
    "With your permission, dear, I'll take my fences one at a time" - Maggie Smith, Downton Abbey



  7. #7
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    Jun. 27, 2001
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    You know up until a few days ago I felt that Karen should step down too. I have since changed my mind. The reason for my change of heart is that there are others who have been to more Olympics, Mary is an example, Mark Todd etc. She proved today that she continues to be just as good as any of those riders. Plus, she had/has an extremely difficult ride with Mr. M and she showed that she continues to be ballsy as hell and as much perseverance as anybody I have ever seen. She kicked some serious ass today and I thought it was wonderful!!

    But, in the long run, it's not up to me. If she has done the work (she has), has the experience (um, yeah), has the horses to do it with (it appears she does) then she deserves to be there. I really don't think David would give her preferential treatment.

    While I would not have chosen David as the new Chef maybe he can get the riders to accomplish more with their dressage. Look at what he did in Sydney with a dressage score of 19 for goodness sake!
    Grab mane and kick on!



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eventamy View Post
    While I would not have chosen David as the new Chef maybe he can get the riders to accomplish more with their dressage. Look at what he did in Sydney with a dressage score of 19 for goodness sake!
    But look at what he did at the Olympics with the Canadians. After dressage, Canada was ranked 11th of 13 teams. Only one rider scored under 50.

    If Karen said she'd retire from team selection if David became chef, she needs to keep her word.



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eventamy View Post
    Look at what he did in Sydney with a dressage score of 19 for goodness sake!
    Typo - it was a score of 29.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAC View Post
    Didn't she agree to step down when David took over? If so, she needs to do that. Personally I would rather have almost anyone but DOC as the coach.
    Why?



  11. #11
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    Dec. 10, 2004
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    DOC did a great job with the Canadians. Are we all forgetting the 2010 WEG? Team silver, 5 clear xc rounds.

    This olmypics was a whole lot of crap luck mixed with a majority inexperienced team. You can't blame DOC for that.

    I think Karen has proven herself time and time again that she belongs on the team, and if she continues to prove it, then she shouldn't be left off just because her husband is the coach. From what we've gathered here, the coach is not the selection committee.

    If Karen was a younger, inexperienced rider who had not proven herself and she was magically on the team, then one would have to raise some eyebrows, but that's not the case here.

    However, if Canada doesn't get Toddy, then send over KOC for team coach



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JER View Post
    But look at what he did at the Olympics with the Canadians. After dressage, Canada was ranked 11th of 13 teams. Only one rider scored under 50.
    I simply don't think that is a fair comment. The issues in London, in my view, do not fall on David's shoulders. Canada has an incredibly limited base of horses at that level, and limited funds. We also lost a number of potential horses to injury or other issues. Frankly, David deserves a fair amount of credit - Jessie and Hawley had personal best tests this week, and Rebecca is at least partly a product of his system and while she had some poor luck this week, she has historically done very well. Michelle's horse has been out the better part of two years with injuries, and Peter Barry has a single horse and simply doesn't have the experience he would need at this level.

    I don't evaluate the success or failure of David as a coach based on 4 days. Yes, they were important days. But they need to be looked at in perspective. We had great success at WEG 2010, the Pan Am games and at Rolex in 2010 and 2011 under his leadership. I think he has given our riders a lot of very useful tools that they will have for many years.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    You would avoid compromising an asset like Mary.
    This.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  14. #14
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    Default

    No, because God knows we need her!



  15. #15
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    You would avoid compromising an asset like Mary.
    Eh, I'm not convinced. Firstly, its a bit of a contrived hypothetical. But let's take it a bit farther. Mary and WFP are married. WFP wins gold in Rio. Mary is 54 year old, and WFP has retired and declared that he would like to coach the GB team. Mary also doesn't have much in her string. TPTB are of the view that WFP is the best person for the job. Do you really think that they would say 'no thanks' to WFP?



  16. #16
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    Dec. 1, 1999
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    Default Should she stay or should she go?

    I will be the first to admit, I am not the biggest fan of KOC, HOWEVER, she did a bang up job the last 4 days. But how old is MM? If he is 15, and IF he stays sound and in contention, that puts him in at 19 or so for next Olympics. Let's see what else is in the pipeline before we say she should stay or go in 4 years. Criminey! We aren't even talking about the next WEG! Where is it going to be anyway?
    Let's start with Burghley, and see who does well. I reckon we will have a big contengent there as Meridith I think will be there, plus Boyd has two to go,
    I think Phillip travelled with a couple of spare horses, and what about Clark? And this will be a great test for Arthur and Allison without the team pressure. Just to see if Rolex was a real deal or a one off. This will be a bang up show of force in a big crowd with lots of pressure, but not team pressure. Does Tiana have anything else in the pipeline? Where is Colleen? Let's not borrow trouble, plenty enough will be around.
    Another killer of threads



  17. #17
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    Feb. 16, 2008
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    Anky's husband Sjef is the coach for the Dutch Olympic Dressage team and she is on the Dutch Olympic team this year. This is a much smaller country and I suspect there is lots of buzz around this situation.



  18. #18
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    This is why you don't sleep with horsey people. Avoid drama at all costs.



  19. #19
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neigh-Neigh View Post
    This is why you don't sleep with horsey people. Avoid drama at all costs.
    Oh. I thought it was to avoid horse hair in unusual places
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  20. #20
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    Jan. 10, 2005
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    She should definitely continue to ride for the US! Like it or not, OCET has quite a few good owners and they will continue to provide great horses for KOC if she wants to keep at it. She has done a marvelous job with Mr. M in a very short amount of time! I believe he's just 13 this year, so could definitely be a contender for WEG 2014.

    Her experience and grit count for a lot and I don't think she should be counted out since David is coach. The selection committee ultimately chooses the teams(that's a whole other topic though!).



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