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  1. #1
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    Sep. 16, 2008
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    Question Question Regarding Breeds vs. Breed Registries, Etc.

    Ok, this is a silly question and I feel I should know the answer so I am a bit embarrassed, but here goes, please be kind to me!

    I have 2 horses, both homebreds.

    Horse 1 is by a well known Holsteiner stallion out of my sister's jumper of indeterminate breeding. When people ask me his breeding I say Holstiener because that is what his father was and I do not know his mother's breeding. However, he has never been evaluated or registered with them, so technically he is not a Holsteiner, correct? Would it be better to just say "warmblood." People at the barn ask a lot because as a lesson barn there are always new people coming through and Horse 1 is eye catching so if he is in the cross ties he gets looked at.

    Horse 2 is registered with the Anglo European Studbook. Father is a TB but not registered with the Jockey Club, mother is a registered Zangersheide. In his case I know all of his components, but when people ask "what is he?" I don't know what to say. Do I say TB because that is pretty accurate, or "warmblood" or do I say he's Anglo European because that is where he is registered.

    It is my understanding that Holsteiner and Hanovarian, etc. are registries for all horses who meet their quality rather than a true breed. The true breeds, if my understanding are correct are TBs, Arabians with their closed stud books.

    This has been bothering because I want to use correct words, I want to understand what their identity is so I can give an accurate answer.

    Again, I am embarrassed at my ignorance in this regard, It seems people just stick a fancy sounding label on a horse to make it should more impressive. I want to be correct when I discuss both horses. Any clarification is appreciated!
    Impossible is nothing.


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  2. #2
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    Dec. 31, 2009
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    Maybe you could say Horse #1 is a Holsteiner cross and Horse #2 is a Zangersheide/TB cross.
    I LOVE my Chickens!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 3, 2010
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    for now, Ohio
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    what megaladon said.
    Or just say generic "warmblood cross".
    A good man can make you feel sexy, strong, and able to take on the world.... oh, sorry.... that's wine...wine does that...


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  4. #4
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    OK, simple enough
    Impossible is nothing.



  5. #5
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    Aug. 19, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaladon View Post
    Maybe you could say Horse #1 is a Holsteiner cross and Horse #2 is a Zangersheide/TB cross.
    Agree with this. As much as I think the registry deserves credit, though, Zangersheide is really not a breed. If someone asks because they are interested in the bloodlines and ancestry of the horse and whether it characteristically represents its "breed", Zangersheide doesn't give them much information. Zangersheide has a lot of Holsteiner blood, some Selle Francais and Hanoverian jumping blood etc. If it were me, I would look at the actual pedigree of the mare and respond to such a question based on that information. For example, I would say: Dobbin's sire was a TB and his dam was registered Zangersheide of mostly Holsteiner breeding (most people might not care for that much information, but that would be the most accurate response).

    As someone who is keenly interested in bloodlines and is a small-scale breeder as well as a rider, I find myself often asking riders at shows the breeding of their horses if I see a horse that appeals to me. It drives me crazy when I get a response like, "he's a Canadian Sporthorse" or "he's a Rheinlander". I am not asking because I am interested in the registry, I'm asking because I might like the look of your horse and knowing the actual breeding might make me more inclined to consider breeding to those lines. For that reason, I prefer as comprehensive an answer as the rider can provide.


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  6. #6
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    Aug. 15, 2010
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    Most Warmbloods are not breeds - they are performance studbooks that were originally based on region. So even if registered "Oldenburg", that doesn't mean Oldenburg is a breed - it is a horse that meets the bloodlines and criteria of the Oldenburg registry. A Breed is a purebred animal in a closed registry - such as the Morgan or Tbred. It is kind of a confusing concept, since we (especially in the US) think of Registry and Breed as meaning the same thing.

    A few Warmblood registries are relatively closed - such as Trakehner and Selle Franscais, so they may be considered a breed, but most Wb registries are relatively open - they accept horses from other WB registries, as well as Tbreds and some Arabians (and if you get into Old NA and RPSI and AWS almost any mare that meets their inspection score, although they go in lower books, they are still registered).

    So the big thing is to separate the concept of Registry and Breed. Another way to think of it (from the dog world) - there are registries for certain mixes such as Cockapeekapoo - but that isn't really a breed, it is a specific mix. And AKC may not even recognize all those registries because they are not a breed.

    I think a valid way to refer to a cross is to call it a Warmblood cross ;-)


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  7. #7
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    The answer I give for my warmblood mare depends on who's asking and why. For your first horse, I'd just call him a Holsteiner cross (or a WB cross if you prefer) since you're not sure what's on the other half.

    When my mare shows, or if someone is just asking to be polite, make conversation, etc, I just say BWP (her registry). In the case of yours, I'd just say he's registered AES.
    If someone is actually genuinely interested, I'll say she's a Holsteiner/TB cross and she's registered BWP. It's more of a mouthfull but it accurately reflects what she is. I'd tell them your guy is a TB-cross and he's registered AES. It may prompt follow up questions that you can address as they arise.
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  8. #8
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    Sep. 16, 2008
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    Thanks guys, this is an interesting topic for me because it seems that mainstream Americans (not sure about others) wrongly believe that registries are breeds. I know that up until I started reading COTH that is what I thought, or rather, I never gave it much thought. Most of my horses until now were OTTBs or other horses of indeterminate origins, so I either knew for sure what they were or did not know at all, so it was easy. Thanks again to those who responded!
    Impossible is nothing.



  9. #9
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    Aug. 19, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWB View Post
    The answer I give for my warmblood mare depends on who's asking and why. For your first horse, I'd just call him a Holsteiner cross (or a WB cross if you prefer) since you're not sure what's on the other half.

    When my mare shows, or if someone is just asking to be polite, make conversation, etc, I just say BWP (her registry). In the case of yours, I'd just say he's registered AES.
    If someone is actually genuinely interested, I'll say she's a Holsteiner/TB cross and she's registered BWP. It's more of a mouthfull but it accurately reflects what she is. I'd tell them your guy is a TB-cross and he's registered AES. It may prompt follow up questions that you can address as they arise.
    Exactly, JWB. Well said.



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