[Flipper]

My warmblood has been having a recurring SI issue for over a year. His SI has been injected a total of 3 times, and I've slowly worked him back to full work (he's an eventer) after each injection successfully. Successfully at least until he does something to aggravate it again, that is.
He's been on robaxin for the past 2 months (tapered back recently, following the last SI injection).
My trainer suggested trying Estrone Sulfate - though neither she nor my vet have had experience with it specifically for an SI problem.
As I understand it, Estrone is supposed to help loosen up tendons & ligaments. It seems to me that if he keeps getting his SI ' out of whack', it means that the area is already hyper-mobile, and that he needs something (along w/ stregnthening the surrounding muscles) to tighten it up. Am I right? Can anyone with experience/knowledge with this fill me in? Thanks!

[deltawave]

If I'm not mistaken estrogen actually causes certain ligaments to contract or develop MORE tension.

[Herbie19]

If I'm not mistaken estrogen actually causes certain ligaments to contract or develop MORE tension.

That is correct. Estrone is used to help "loose" stifles (which is a soft tissue issue) so I don't see why it wouldn't help the SI as well, although I've never heard of it being used for that specific reason.

[ponygirl]

I have never heard of using estrone for SI issues. I've never had a vet even suggest this either.

[goodmorning]

Is the SI having issues due lack of hind-end engagement? Weak stifles? I guess with the SI being so problematic, they might be concerned with overall hind-end weakness being the route of the evil? Estrone can help with that. With chronic SI issues, I would probably star looking elsewhere, unless the horse is a real a$$-hat in t/o and constant injuring himself, or doing sliding stops. If that's the case, I'd fix the t/o situation until the horse was very well developed in the topline.

[retrofit]

I've been doing some reading on this lately. My understanding is that estrone does NOT in itself tighten stifle ligaments. It is given in cases of upward fixation / stifle ligament laxity because it RELAXES the ligaments and gives the horse some relief, allowing the rider to strengthen the entire stifle soft tissue structure with targeted work.

Interesting approach to use for an SI issue. The SI is not a "ball and socket" joint. It is basically held together by a tight band of ligaments. SI problems are usually injuries to these ligaments. I could see where maybe it might help. If your vet concurs, it might be worth a try.

[deltawave]

I think you have it backwards . . . estrogen does not cause relaxation of ligaments.

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs...99903321667627

http://www.atlantaequine.com/pages/c..._estrogen.html

Maybe there is confusion between the relaxation of the pubic symphysis (on the other side of the pelvis) around the time of birth under the influence of hormones? I believe that hormone is relaxin, not estrogen. But I may be dating myself there.

[Flipper]

Thanks, Deltawave - very helpful. My vet has said it wouldn't hurt to try it....Goodmorning: Yes, he has a weak hind-end - though he's a spectacular jumper. Go figure. We've been working on his hindend engagement for the past year that I've had him. I'd never seen him do a sliding stop out in t/o, until last week - 2 days after his injection. A bit disturbing to watch, given the circumstances.

[retrofit]

I'm not confused, Deltawave. It's a common misconception because "estrone is used to tighten stifle ligaments" - at least, that's what everyone says, right?

This is not true. Estrone is USED TO HELP tighten ligaments, because once the ligament is relaxed and tracking better with less friction, Horsey is comfortable enough to let his human WORK HIM, and the ligaments tighten.

Some sources:

"Hormone injections- A series of injections of estrone sulfate (similar to estrogen)
can be used to treat the condition. Estrogen causes relaxation of ligaments. One
theory is that these injections relax some of the pelvic ligaments, altering the
angulation of the pelvis and stifle. Another theory is that the patellar ligaments
themselves relax. In some horses, this can be a very effective treatment."

- quoted from http://www.steinbeckequine.com/pdf/D...rreleaseMD.pdf

And a scientific study on estrone's effect on ligaments in cattle:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16214299

[cswoodlandfairy]

My trainer and vet have actually told me to do this a couple months ago. They wanted Forrest on it for a couple months (3) to see if it was helping. He has a bad left SI issue and I have been working with him to build the muscle around the area to strengthen it up along with a very good chiropractor.

I have not injected my horse with injections, but I did use the Estrone and noticed a big difference. This was on top of the "Pilates" and other workouts the Chiropractor suggested. Forrest's recovery time after a hard show was faster and he was able to build the muscle around the area better. I no longer use it or the Chiropractor and Forrest is doing great. His was bad enough that I was told he may never be able to jump and he competes on a regular basis at 3' Jumpers and moving up.

Granted each horses reaction is different, but I definitely noticed a difference. Good luck to your guy!

[BoyleHeightsKid]

I was curious about this also... I think I'll talk to the vet about it!

[deltawave]

I think using pregnant animals as the model is a mistake if we're trying to determine any isolated effects of estrogen. There are a LOT of factors that influence the laxity of pelvic ligaments close to parturition. I'm not even remotely convinced by the cow study that estrogen IN AND OF ITSELF is what is CAUSING the ligaments to relax. Nor is this suggested by the authors. It appears to me that they were using estrogen levels as a MARKER of relaxation, vis-a-vis impending parturition when other hormones are most definitely in play. Relaxin being one of them.

I'd have to argue (sorry) that the other citation is just plain wrong. All the literature (published, peer-reviewed, as opposed to an article put out by a vet's office) I've seen indicates quite the opposite.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/e28n3x82j4u2h648/

[Flipper]

[QUOTE=cswoodlandfairy;6452678]
I have not injected my horse with injections, but I did use the Estrone and noticed a big difference. This was on top of the "Pilates" and other workouts the Chiropractor suggested. QUOTE]

Pilates for horses?! Glad to hearthe estrone worked for your guy, regardless of the mode of action.
Thanks!

[cswoodlandfairy]

[QUOTE=Flipper;6454015]

I have not injected my horse with injections, but I did use the Estrone and noticed a big difference. This was on top of the "Pilates" and other workouts the Chiropractor suggested. QUOTE]

Pilates for horses?! Glad to hearthe estrone worked for your guy, regardless of the mode of action.
Thanks!

haha yeah that's what the Chiropractor called it. I believe there is a really good article on The Horse website about the stretches. The first one is to lift his top line and build that muscle, then to make him lift his rear end up, should looked hunched back, to build the lower muscles. Worked like a charm!

[BoyleHeightsKid]

What? Pilates for horses?!

http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=14268

Here are a couple of exercises that most of us already know about. I suspect you would have to buy Hilary Clayton's book/DVD as I my searching isn't really turning up much else.