[caballus]

OK he's 25 and he only moves when his owner takes him for walks. That right there is all the signs a responsible owner should need to know its time. It's not like he has a one-time abscess making him not want to move, he has been this way for YEARS.

It's just selfish.

No, he goes out to his pasture on his own ... he's spending more and more time out there now and actually 'running away' from his owner when she goes out to get him. (read ALL the posts) Yes, he's been this way for a long time. But that's not to say that things cannot be reversed or corrected. As I keep on saying -- time will tell.

[deltawave]

actually 'running away' from his owner when she goes out to get him

Who could blame the poor beast?

[caballus]

Missed the point, DW.

For all you naysayers --- why don't we just wait and see what happens? All signs are positive. Time will tell.

[deltawave]

The point is, as I see it, the owner had no clue how to look after the horse and allowed it to reach a state where its life was a living hell, and along the way either continued to employ incompetent professionals or ignored the advice of good ones. Blame for the pitiful animal's condition lies squarely on his/her shoulders, and if I were the horse I'd want to run away, too.

What this owner now hopes to accomplish is beyond me. There are worse things than euthanasia. I'm happy you've given the poor thing some relief, but I'd love to have the owner walk a mile in that poor horse's hooves.

[Rick Burten]

You're right. He *is* hurting. But so does a broken arm or surgery.

Difference is, humans can do 'comparative rationalization' (it hurts today, but less than yesterday, and will probably hurt less tomorrow.....), horse's can't.

Again, he'll let his owner know when he's ready to pass.

Anthropomorphic Spucatum Tauri.

And if one's not experienced that 'knowing' then suffice to say its unmistakable.

sel-serving pap. Denial ain't a river in Egypt.

Well, bottom line is that its the owner's call. And I firmly believe that if a horse is ready to pass then he will.

Great! Let him linger on, suffering all the way until he can no longer bear it and he dies. Great quality of life, no? But the human connection can walk around secure in the knowledge that s/he did everything s/he could to prolong the horse's life of suffering and pain. I say, build that owner a monument, give her a medal and exalt her name on high. She's a perfect example of why horses should only be under the stewardship of true horsemen /women and not horse owners. Especially those of the FBN or S&L Brigade.

Rads showed no infection.

You're kidding, right? First of all, how does one determine the actual presence of infection via a radiograph? Second, there is referential indication that infection is/was present because of the presence of drain tracks and p3 lysis.

Again, based on what?

Based on the orientation of the P3 in the capsule; based on the comfort level of the horse; based on how he is moving ... but once again, time will tell.

You're kidding, right? I can't wait to see the new rads.......

[Frizzle]

Again, he'll let his owner know when he's ready to pass. And if one's not experienced that 'knowing' then suffice to say its unmistakable.

And I firmly believe that if a horse is ready to pass then he will.

I don't agree with either of these statemens. Obviously, none of us can make a true assessment of whether or not this particular horse should be put down because we aren't actually there. However, I have seen many horses, dogs, etc. that were very much in need of an owner kind enough to let them go, and no they can not always "tell" you that it's time. They keep on eating and drinking and quietly suffering until something dramatic happens and the owner is forced to put the animal down. It's not like they can write it out for you or anything. In a lot of these cases, if you wait for the animal to "tell" you it's time to go, you'll keep it alive & suffering for far too long. Better a week too soon than a day too late.

Again, I'm not making an assessment on this horse, just animals in general.

[SuckerForHorses]

Gwen, please keep us updated because I'm very curious here. I had an arab mare founder in both fronts, and her coffin bone had penetrated the sole on the right front. Within a week or two, both hooves were sloughing from the coronet and I chose to euthanize her.

I'm curious to see this horse progress (or not) and would like to be kept updated on his progress.

[Mosey_2003]

Why.............

[caballus]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...-20-120001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...-20-120002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...-20-120003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...-20-120004.jpg

NOTE: I trimmed the hooves some more after seeing these rads (digital) so to balance them correctly.

[Mosey_2003]

Oh yeah, those look much better...

[caballus]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...r-july2012.jpg

[Mosey_2003]

I'm sorry, but all I see there is you torturing a horse for four months and then posting it on here as if you think someone might congratulate you. After all the kerfuffles on this board I would think you'd know better, instead of beating a should-be-dead horse.

[caballus]

I'm sorry, but all I see there is you torturing a horse for four months and then posting it on here as if you think someone might congratulate you. After all the kerfuffles on this board I would think you'd know better, instead of beating a should-be-dead horse.

I've only been working on this horse for 4 weeks. ... ??? I think you've missed the point. The purpose was to show that knowledgeable and correct hoofcare can PREVENT this sort of thing ... I was called in as a last resort. The photos and xrays show the course of events in the 4 weeks. Owner reported to me this morning that the horse is now up most of the time as a 'normal' horse is, grazing, walking around, and seems very comfortable. 4 weeks ago the horse would rise only to eat and drink but otherwise was recumbent. Whether or not the progress continues is something we'll see.

[Mosey_2003]

Ok, my mistake on how long you've been working on the horse. I still stand by my point completely though.

[caballus]

Well, in all honesty, I had my doubts when I first saw this horse 4 weeks ago. But, the horse is much more comfortable, walking around, eating, drinking, passing normal manure and urine and is bright and alert. Hard thing for someone who has had such a close companion for 23 years (owner got him when he was 2) to end the life when there's any hope. There is hope right now. So, once again -- we'll see. Edited to add -- if there is any downfall or reversal in the progress and comfort that is being seen then it will be the end of the road for this horse, I think. *I* know nothing more to do than what I'm doing. Perhaps there's someone else who could do more .. but for right now the progress is good and hope is 'alive'.

[Mosey_2003]

Everyone here knows that proper hoofcare is essential. The time to blow your own horn on this one would be if the horse actually made a full recovery to sound hooves. The horse should've been euthanized long ago.

[caballus]

Plenty of ppl 'out there' obviously DON'T know about proper hoofcare - otherwise situations like this wouldn't arise. Everyone would have sound, happy horses. My objective is to bring stuff like this out to the horse owners (and farriers/trimmers who may not have the savvy/common sense/care to know) so they can see, firsthand, the results of no hoof -no horse. Have I rehabbed numbers of hooves? Yes, I have. That's pretty much all I do. How and Why? Cause I had great teachers to show/teach me, not least of all, the horses/hooves themselves. So tooting of the horn goes directly to those people (and a few of them on right here on this forum as well as a couple of others - the information that they share freely (although a bit caustically at times *grin*) is invaluable. I would hope that personal innuendos and snarkiness would not get in the way of the true message here. No hoof - no horse. Period. Preventative care is essential. Education is essential.

[Mosey_2003]

Whatever you want to tell yourself... I still say CoTH isn't the medium for this.

[caballus]

Whatever. I do believe this forum is the 'Horse Care' section.

[ChocoMare]

Yes, self-educating on proper hoof form, function, etc. should be required by every horse owner, so that when "counterfeit" shows up at the end of their horse's legs, they'll know it.

BUT education also can come from this case Gwen: When a 25 y/o horse is presented to you with severe founder, demineralized coffin bones, in agony, down 80% of the day, etc., it is encumbant upon you as the "professional," to gently but firmly say: There is no good purpose in asking your baby to continue to live in pain while I try to fix him/her for you. I am called to be a good steward of the creatures entrusted to my temporary care by you the owner. I cannot, as a good steward, cause more pain & harm and take your money at the same time. Not if I want to sleep at night. For the good of your horse, choose a day filled with scritches, good things to eat and a gentle passing."

THAT is also educating the owners.