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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2008
    Posts
    2,134

    Default Kicker with hind shoes?

    New horse at barn is a confirmed kicker-- recently nailed another horse at same barn while in turnout, hard enough to warrant a vet call to treat the injury. Horse also has hind shoes.

    If said horse would potentially be going into your horse's turnout group, would you put your foot down and say "no way"?

    I know anything can happen in turnout and any horse can kick, but a confirmed aggressive kicker WITH hind shoes makes me leery.
    *friend of bar.ka

    "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2007
    Posts
    134

    Default

    My horse would not be going out with an aggressive kicker with or without hind shoes.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2008
    Posts
    4,577

    Default

    Nope. He'd not be spending time with anything I owned.
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2006
    Location
    Dallas, NC
    Posts
    2,313

    Default

    I don't allow back shoes on the horses at my barn. Allowed one, but only after watching him for about 4 months WITHOUT shoes to verify he just doesn't kick.
    I want a signature but I have nothing original to say except: "STHU and RIDE!!!

    Wonderful COTHER's I've met: belleellis, stefffic, snkstacres and janedoe726.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2007
    Posts
    2,778

    Default

    Agree with the above posters. If they're aggressive like that, they probably shouldn't be in turnout with other horses anyway, and if my BM tried to do that to my horse, I would be honest and tell her that. If they (the owner or BM) refused to put the horse into private turnout, then I would request private turnout for my own horse, request that he be moved, or possibly look for a new place to board.
    "It is not necessary for you to let everyone know everything about you. In fact, it is probably wise that you don't. There are some things that you need only discuss with God."



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    4,948

    Default

    NO WAY. All of the barns I have been at have had a no hind shoes for group turn out rule.

    I know I know accidents can happen. But I have had just one horse injured by a kick (so bad, that at first the vet thought his shoulder was broken) – and the offending horse had back shoes.

    BIG NO to a horse that has proven aggressive. I would NOT allow my horse to be turned out with it.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2010
    Location
    Earlysville, Virginia
    Posts
    3,244

    Default

    Eh, well we had a horse get kicked, broke the radial. Had to put him down. In all likelihood, it was the "kicker" in the group, without hind shoes.

    We took off my other horses hind shoes, just in case. But ANY kick by ANY horse can result in injury. It is the FORCE behind it, not the shoe that does the damage.
    Charlie Brown (1994 bay TB X gelding)
    White Star (2004 grey TB gelding)

    Mystical Moment, 1977-2010.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2008
    Posts
    2,134

    Default

    I hate being a picky boarder, but my gut says "no" on this one. At a previous barn where I boarded, a hind-shoe-wearing kicker nailed a horse while we were on a trail ride and DID fracture the horse's shoulder. I was there, it sounded like a gunshot-- it was awful. (Horse recovered, but I'm not sure to what degree of usefulness.)
    *friend of bar.ka

    "Evidently, I am an unrepentant b*tch, possible trouble maker, and all around super villian"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 13, 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,029

    Default

    I would put your foot down and say no, if nothing can be done then I would consider moving to a different barn, but this is coming from somebody who is dealing with fresh wounds on my horse from her pasture mate that has hind shoes. Not fun for myself or for my mare. I was seriously worried for a few days that she may have broken something, but she appears to just be suffering from a lot of swelling and bruising. I have seen a horse get kicked and break its pelvis, it was awful and the horse had to be put down.
    Maggie Bright, lovingly known as Skye and deeply missed (1994 - 2013)
    The Blog



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2012
    Posts
    1,961

    Default

    I've seen 3 broken legs, and don't ever want to see another.

    2 of 'em were from kicks by hind shoes.

    Need I say more?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    11,372

    Default

    I guess I have a differing view on this to some extent.

    Why is the horse kicking? Is the horse being bothered? Is the horse aggressive? Typically, it's not easy to kick another horse unless you're being pursued.

    Maybe the herd dynamic is not such that this horse fits in safely?
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
    Posts
    11,438

    Default

    I would not allow my horse to be turned out with a horse that is known to exhibit that behavior, with or without hind shoes.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,953

    Default

    I do not turn a horse with back shoes on out with any others.
    friend of bar.ka



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2006
    Posts
    2,891

    Default

    At the barn that I am at, and at my barn at home, ANY horse with hind shoes is turned out individually. The risks are too great, it only takes once. I would be putting my foot down for sure.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2009
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    774

    Default

    I would definitely say no way unless I had personally seen the horse kicking and judged each occurance as self defense and unlikely to happen with my horse. One of mine got kicked by a known kicker - fortunately just some time and daily injury care and he was fine - and I later saw that horse running backwards and double barrel kicking at another horse who was quick enough to get out of the way and smart enough to keep going until the kicker stopped moving.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
    Location
    between the barn and the pond
    Posts
    14,205

    Default

    some horses are just nasty in turnout. I had a gelding who would beat up one particular field mate but no one else. I boarded another whom I swear spent half of his life in reverse- he sought to bully others. I kicked him out.

    Not every kicker is being harassed, not every field is crowded. some horses, like some people, are jerks.

    And those horses are likely better in solo turnout.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2009
    Location
    Rock Chalk!
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    3,090

    Default

    Some horses do fine in turnout, others not so much. Our barn watches closely the interaction between horses when turned out to determine if it's going to be a good match or not. DD's mare is in a pen with two other mares and a gelding. The gelding does not tolerate other geldings. We have one horse who needs individual turnout, so he has his own pen.

    FWIW, our barn doesn't put restrictions on back shoes for turnout - about half of our horses live outside anyhow. Given that they all have different jobs and some need shoes to stay sound, that wouldn't go over at all. The one time a horse was injured by being kicked, the kicker had no shoes.
    A proud friend of bar.ka.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2006
    Location
    Massachussetts
    Posts
    550

    Default

    My barn won't turn out horses with hind shoes in groups, just alone. The paddocks are set up to accommodate this. As the owner of a non-aggressive horse, who has always adored being out with his buddies, who absolutely needs hind shoes to stay sound, this is frustrating - but I understand that the BO and the other boarders are unwilling to take the risk. Perhaps this particular horse needs to be out alone or with just one buddy that he gets along well with?
    OTTB owner.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 18, 2003
    Location
    Brenham, TX
    Posts
    4,717

    Default

    A confirmed kicker in a boarding situation should be turned out alone. Doesn't matter if the horse has hind shoes or not.

    I have a mare that can be a kicker, depending on who she goes out with. Without hind shoes, she injured one of my other mares bad enough that we thought she had broken the top of the mare's humerus. Luckily, nothing broken and after 10 days of stall rest, all was well. I can turn her out with a different mare with no kicking. However, when she is leased out (as she is now), I tell them she must have individual turn out. Not worth the risk.

    I take it on a case-by-case basis. I have a mare with back shoes that can go out with any horse, even weanlings without a problem. She gets along with everyone and just does not kick in turn out.
    Triple J Ranch Sporthorses
    www.triplejsporthorse.com
    Member - OMGiH I LOFF my mare(s) clique



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
    Location
    where the red fern grows
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Despite recently telling a trainer who had my horse for a week of training that I was NOT comfortable with him being turned out with a certain known kicker with hinds (who has done damage to others before by way of double-barreling), my horse was turned out anyway with said horse. I was told the horse was "mean" to mine, and mine was moved within 30 minutes or so.

    Fast forward - my horse ends up spending a full week at the clinic for internal bleeding from "trauma" that the vet was 99% sure was from a kick. of course I can't really prove it, so the bills are mine, but I will NEVER allow my horses anywhere near a kicker again.
    Last edited by simc24; Jul. 14, 2012 at 10:41 PM.
    The best is yet to come



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