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  1. #1

    Default Alter needed- Updates

    since OC day is still here, I need advice.]
    Marriage advice.
    Fun stuff-not.

    Been married 13 years. Thought he was the one for life. Have found out that there are many things I did not know. Financial things-including using my credit for business things. I feel for him, and do love him, but frankly, don't trust him now. Makes me question everything, truthfully. The IRS and state are involved...its VERY extensive, and don't want to give to much away.

    He has been dishonest about what he has done and remains so to this day.

    I have sold my horses, and basically done what I have to do to keep going. I am like that. He, not so much. He has done something to find a job, which is good. But the rest.

    So the question is... and this I was asked again yesterday by a co-worker... Can one trust again, and how do I know that he won't do this again?
    Last edited by needsanalter; Dec. 29, 2012 at 07:01 PM.



  2. #2
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    Jul. 3, 2012
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    Certainly trust can be rebuilt but it won't be your job. It's HIS job to behave scrupulously with money, to be completely open, to answer any question without hostility and be completely transparent. And he needs to do it as a way of life, forever. No whining about "jeez, what's it gonna take?"

    He needs to do the work, not you. If he doesn't, then no, you won't trust him again and he won't deserve it. You didn't screw this up, he did.

    So sorry you have to go thru this. Trust is such an essential part of a relationship.((((hugs)))) and jingles for you.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Short answer? You don't.

    Was it only financial? Has he lied about other things? I don't know, if he had been in a panic, done one thing wrong then the whole thing snowballed out of control and he admitted it, was contrite, etc, I would say maybe he just got in over his head and it was a one off thing. Yet you say he denies it, so it's tough to call.

    I feel for you though.
    Audaces fortuna iuvat.



  4. #4
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    Oct. 12, 2010
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    North Carolina
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    Yes, you can trust again, but you have no idea if he will do it again or not.
    Alis volat propriis.



  5. #5
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    Nov. 8, 2005
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    There's a psychologist named Mira Kirshenbaum who's written a number of books on difficult and even controversial topics.

    The couple I've read are remarkably rational and sensible without the pussy-footing so many relationship books seem to have.

    While I picked up a copy the other day, I have not yet read her "I Love You But I Don't Trust You". I'm guessing that if it is like the others I have read, you might find it helpful. Since there are a number of books with similar themes and no basis to differentiate them unread, I'd recommend starting with that one.
    If I knew what I were doing, why would I take lessons?

    "Things should be as simple as possible,
    but no simpler." - Einstein



  6. #6
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    Nov. 9, 2011
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    I can't really speak for the trust part, as once my trust is broken I am horrible at ever giving it back. I tend to hold grudges. But I think Ezduzit had the best answer. It should not be on you it is him that has to do the hard work and make a complete life style change of being honest about EVERYTHING without hostility!

    However I did want to address the tax problems (I'm at work and Collection of state tax (NC) is what I do!) First things first if you have tax issues and file federal joint returns look into filing Innocent or Injured Spouse relief. Read the qualifications for each because they are different (IRS forms 8857/8379)

    Also I would immediately take his name off of any bank accounts or property. Even if you do not plan on separating from him. its best to keep your money separate if you can't trust him.

    I see this happen every day where a couple is divorced or separated and they did not legally take the spouses name off the acct and the bank acct is frozen due to the other party. There is nothing you can do once the acct is frozen and garnished.

    I will keep you in my prayer!!
    The Love for a Horse is just as Complicated as the Love for another Human being, If you have never Loved a Horse you will Never Understand!!!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Mar. 24, 2004
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    If he was dishonest about what he did and continues to be then I forget the trust thing. Certainly while he is not even admitting it let alone apologizing for it.

    Co-worker's BIL ran up large CC debt to buy new furniture and rugs for his parents and never told his wife. When she found out because other bills weren't getting paid he admitted to it. However she was the one that worked to overtime to get the CC paid. He wouldn't lower his 401K contributions and he was taking the max allowed, wouldn't work over time so she essentially paid it all back.

    She did take over the bill paying for a few years until he whined about her not trusting him. She allowed him to start paying some of the bills. First couple months she checked up on him and all was good. He then pretty much did the same thing. Stopped paying bills or switched to paying the minimum on the CC but telling her he was paying more. This time she could never figure out where the money went. Once again thousands of dollars.

    They are now divorced.

    I don't think you can ever totally trust again, not when the offense appears to be as large as his.
    You MIGHT be able to take over all household finances, separate anything that you can separate, get a credit watch service and let him know you will be doing random credit checks on both of your credits. Trust but verify. But 100% blind trust, not happening.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  8. #8
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    I don't think you can trust someone who refuses to take responsibility for his actions.

    You need to look out for yourself and your own welfare (financial and otherwise) right now. If he's really interested in fixing things, he'll find a way, and he'll start by asking you what you need him to do. For now, protect yourself, get some counseling, and figure out what kind of partner you need and want. Then determine whether he's going to be that person.
    Full-time bargain hunter.



  9. #9
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    Feb. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by onelanerode View Post
    I don't think you can trust someone who refuses to take responsibility for his actions. .
    Yep. This. If your husband takes full responsibility for what he did, takes specific actions to ensure it does not happen again (whatever the other issues are, drinking? gambling? bipolar issues) and makes amends for what he did and its impact on you (selling your horses!!!!!), perhaps trust may be rebuilt (even if the marriage does not survive).

    If he does not (in some way, makes it about you, minimizes the impact or his behaviors, gets defensive, etc.) then no. It won't happen because nothing has changed! So he is not "trustworthy".

    I have no idea how any one could "love" someone they don't trust. Be attracted? Definitely! Love/long for the fantasy version of what they have? Sure! But really love someone? Without trust you'd always be keeping your guard up, and that is tough to do when trying to estabish intimacy.

    I sure with you luck with this. I work with gambling addicts and it is heartbreaking. Glad you got the info on the innocent spouse.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    Dec. 28, 2003
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    I could never trust my ExH after he betrayed me. I keep waiting for him to do it again. It is so hard living that way, just waiting for him to do something, reading things in to stuff that he would do even when there was no reason. I could forgive him but I couldn't trust him.
    Are you going to cowboy up or lie there and BLEED?



  11. #11
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    Nov. 8, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eleanor View Post
    I could never trust my ExH after he betrayed me. I keep waiting for him to do it again. It is so hard living that way, just waiting for him to do something, reading things in to stuff that he would do even when there was no reason. I could forgive him but I couldn't trust him.
    There's a reason why 19 out of 20 marriages where one of the partners rightly or wrongly is convinced the other cheated, terminate in the medium term, sometimes despite a twilight last gasp.

    Particularly tragic for that marriage when this is a misreading (such as when one partner believed the marriage was done and simply left to be free thinking it was done, while the other viewed it as merely an affair), but still 19/20.
    If I knew what I were doing, why would I take lessons?

    "Things should be as simple as possible,
    but no simpler." - Einstein



  12. #12
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    The Gale Voz-Oxley show "Til Debt Do Us Part" opener is her saying that most couples split up because of finances, and I believe her. I don't think that I could ever trust someone who ruined everything financially, and makes no effort to fix things, and stands by watching me struggle to fix it.

    I've seen too many people over the years that had excuses for why they are deep in debt, and a lot of times that person takes no responsibility, the couple divorce, and then the finances happen the same way in the next relationship too. Too many people seem to repeat the same patterns, but yet it's never their fault. I'm really afraid that in my view two people can work together to fix something that one created, but if it's not both people, and a full commitment to change and never do it again, then I see little hope for the relationship. For me financial shenanigans would be a deal breaker, but that is something you have to figure out for yourself.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  13. #13
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    Jul. 6, 2012
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    Thanks- sorry, but I worry...its like posting on CoTH is having an affair! LOL....

    So, a bit of background... 2nd marriage for both. I worked when we met, and I loved my job. I made 1/10th as much as he did (literally, I think!) and he wanted me to quit to "stay at home and raise our kids" which was both of our "sets". His kids were really not around, but mine were. He told my boss to get me to quit. Fairytale-esque, I did. I kept the emails from long ago- clearly I was very concerned about this-I have always worked and worked hard for my own living. My family consist of a lot of poor money handlers, and I worked-hard, was frugal, and generally took responsibility for what I did. Was I amazing? Nope. But I paid my bills, and lived within my means. And yes, I had a horse, in my backyard, went to shows, and generally, it was okay.

    He gave me free rein to do whatever I wanted pretty much. It was very nice I admit. But, it was never my "bottom line" which has and always will be honestly.

    He was dishonest about several things, inc stuff that I just don't understand why one would even start the lie. Without giving too much away, stuff on resumes that just was not true. People he swore he did not have relationships with that he did. Because I was "home", i could clean up messes, and smooth over things with the kids, ect. (Since doing this is what I know from childhood, -yes, I have read co-dependent no more I just did it and did not realize it until several years later) and I smoothed out his rough edges a bit I think.

    I have gone to therapy, and spoken to a lawyer. My therapist (whom I adore) says no way can this work. She went so far as to say that it's a character flaw- and honestly it may be.

    This year, after I finished school in a really tough field, moved myself to a location that I can get a job, which I have done, I have had to deal with bill collectors, FASFA for my child because the taxes were not filled out in either a timely or correct fashion, broken vehicles because basics were not taken care of, and several other things that just go SO against who I am. I can take care of things if I had not gotten the "It's taken care of" or "Got it!" or "I'll get it done today".

    But the reality is, he had NOT taken care of it, nor done it, nor anything else. Insurance issues both horse and house, (he said it was paid...and it was not. Claim? couldn't file one because there was no policy in effect), huge overages on bills because he did not respond to the calls or emails from the companies, lots of overdrafts, and bills past due because he "thought I'd taken care of it" Plain and simple, he does not pay attention.

    He has visited a few times, and this time has asked me to give him money, because he doesn't have any. I am sure he doesn't and that is SO hard, but now, when he needs something I get honesty.or am I??? I can't figure it out in my pea-sized brain if I am being an idiot, or not.

    The good is this- he does not gamble, drink, or do drugs. He has never hurt me in a physical sense. Yes, he had depression and I have taken him in for help, and he is on drugs for this. When I asked him if he was depressed a few months ago, his comment was "no, not at all right now."



  14. #14
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    Oct. 16, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by needsanalter View Post

    The good is this- he does not gamble, drink, or do drugs. "
    I mean this with no disrespect, but how do you know this?
    If he has been untruthful about other things (so many of them too) why would you assume he doesn't have a hidden substance abuse problem of some sort?

    Also, why would you want to be involved in any way with somebody who can't function financially AND then lies about it instead of getting help?

    It just seems that the risks are too great.
    I'm sorry that you find yourself in this situation. It must be hard.

    I would recommend reading: The Language of Letting Go



  15. #15
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    Jul. 6, 2012
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    I guess, and this is reality, I don't know. But I don't see the signs (but then again, I didn't see the other signs, too!)



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by west5 View Post
    I mean this with no disrespect, but how do you know this?
    I was wondering this as well.
    My ex SO had an obvious drinking issue, but I thought it was only limited to the fact that he HAD to drink, and I'm not really that critical, because it's in my family, and "there but for the Grace of God...". As long as no one was hurt, or he used good judgment. He never drove while drinking, nor get nasty while drinking.

    BUT he could be very...unusually defensive when not drinking - particularly when discussing important issues - work, finances, family problems. And then nastily accuse me of stuff that he started. I picked up books on alcoholics, and discovered that the defensiveness was a very typical characteristic.

    Although he paid bills, he would also be inattentive to details that so obviously need attention, and were financially an issue - ignoring house foundation problems? Refusing to mow/weed the yard? Not repairing plumbing? We had a toilet that ran for a year, and to this day, I think the only way it stops is if you reach down and turn the handle off.

    Also he is a professional, and I worked for him, and in a profession that I so admire, but he would make short cuts, cheat the system, mock clients. Not good.

    So I'd wonder about some kind of substance abuse as well. Because why else be like that?

    Sounds like you've done an outstanding job of getting yourself on track. I would keep at arm's length, unless he acknowledges whatever his issues are.

    The first few responses were right on! Thought they almost sounded like what Dr Phil would say! You can only trust them again, if they've done the work to secure your trust.
    Good luck, and hang in there!
    Being right half the time beats being half-right all the time. Malcolm Forbes



  17. #17
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    No, he's never been honest with your (or employers or anyone else) before, and he's not being honest now. I don't know where the money is going, but that's not unusual. Hopelessly bad spenders can waste so much money, and you never figure out where it went, and they don't seem to know either. Does it matter where the money went? Because once it's gone, then it's gone.

    He is a liar, he will always be a liar, and he will never change. He has hurt you, because he's destroyed your trust, endangered you financially, and with the insurance lapse has put you in danger. Do something today about the car, house, health insurance. If you have to get a personal policy from Kaiser, Blue Cross or whoever then do it. A friend had no insurance for years, put off regular testing, and because she now qualified for Medicare she went for the last 15 or more years of tests-it's too late for her, because things that could have been caught and treated safely years ago have advanced so far that she is probably terminal. You need to fix that right now. You also need to stop giving him money, and helping him, you already know it's just allowing him to keep on fooling the world, and it solves nothing. Take whatever steps you need to so you ensure your financial future, and that means severing yourself from him. You need a first rate tax attorney, and probably a divorce attorney to get away from him. I don't care how 'kind' he was in the past, he's a liar and will use you until the money runs out.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
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    Depressed people often do NOT drink or do drugs. If they did, they would not be depressed, because their low level of neuro-transmitters was being boosted by the substance.

    OP, This is a life-long pattern, and he is comfortable in it. RUN !
    Comprehensive Equestrian Site Planning and Facility Design
    www.lynnlongplanninganddesign.com



  19. #19
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    Jul. 6, 2012
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    Hey all,

    First thanks to all for the replies a few months ago.

    Yes, only gotten worse. Lots of lies more being uncovered. I have been taken and taken really well...can't believe it when all is said and done. So, now, I wait for the legal system to handle things.

    But here is the good- its going to be over, and in the end that is a very good thing. I am grateful for that. What I am NOT happy about is how damn stupid I was. Live and learn, right? Gosh, I sure hope so!

    Thanks again!



  20. #20
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    I'm sorry it didn't work out better, and glad you have found a way forward.

    There is no need to feel badly because he deceived you, because liars are great at hiding the truth, and you are not the first or the last person to be lied to. I don't think I can name one person I know that hasn't been deceived in some way by a friend or loved one, so you definitely aren't alone.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



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