[caffeinated]

You have to be a bit selfish when making the decision to have/not have kids. And by 'selfish' I mean carefully considering how you (and your SO) feel about having kids. In my case the desire simply isn't there. I am pretty sure that had I adhered to norms and expectations, I'd be a not-fantastic parent.

Yup.

I think "selfish" is sort of a dirty word but it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. I would say I was pretty selfish before I had my son - not as a bad thing at all - but my life revolved around doing the stuff that made me happy. The decision to have him really changed the focus of my life, and now pretty much everything is about him. Every second I'm not at work is about taking care of him, keeping him fed, and getting ready for the next day. So yes, my life before was pretty selfish in comparison. Which, OP, I think is what she was trying to say (basically, not an attack on the childless, but a statement about how much her life and her focus has changed).

But I would never say the decision to not have kids is somehow bad or "selfish" in the negative sense - it's honestly a great decision for a lot of people. It means more financial security/independence, it means you can focus more on other things (including rather self-less things like charity work and such), and it also is really necessary in today's world for people to not have children, given the population and environmental impact people have on the planet.

[Velvet]

My life revolves around my animals. I put them before me. I have no mewling, screaming progeny.

Yep, I'm a selfish beyatch.

What-friggin-ever.

[Natalie]

I work at a education/advocacy non-profit that's been around since the whole "population bomb" thing became the topic du jour back in the 60's. (If the phrase "stop at two" rings a bell than you probably know the group I speak of).

We occasionally get letters/emails from members who are so thankful we're here so they can use the population issue to justify why they didn't have children. Hence, this is a semi-frequent topic of conversation in our office, especially as most of our staff is young women of child-bearing age.

I agree with the posters above who've pointed out that there are both "selfish" and more altruistic reasons for both having and NOT having children. I don't buy the bs that all childless people made that choice out of their deep concern for the environment. Some of them certainly did, without question. The others just didn't want kids and wanted to point to a higher justification for their decision--understandable in a society that puts some much pressure on procreating. (Exhibit A--my 31 year old married co-worker who still isn't sure if she ever wants children, though she likes them quite a bit, and is consistently harassed and badgered by all of her mommy friends to just "join the club" and start breeding already. Or Exhibit B--another co-worker who had to fight unbelievable bureaucratic hoops to have her tubes tied at the age of 24 after she gave birth to her second child. The first was an accidental teenage pregnancy, the second while she was married--she said she knew two were all she would ever want to handle, financially and otherwise. Numerous doctors fought her since she was still so young. Another co-worker went through the same thing after her 2nd kid--and she was already into her 30's.)

I personally do want children, if I can have them. I don't believe that having children is a selfish act, though it certainly can be (see--the Duggars). I also don't think that choosing to never have children is selfish either--different strokes for different folks, ya'll.

And I do agree that many of the people who try to pressure the childless into procreating--especially when they pull the "selfish" card--are doing so because they want justification for their own choices, which they may, on some level, regret.

[Velvet]

And I do agree that many of the people who try to pressure the childless into procreating--especially when they pull the "selfish" card--are doing so because they want justification for their own choices, which they may, on some level, regret.

Amen! Preach it, sister!

I don't dislike kids. I don't want to have any. No desire to be a single parent. No desire to add to the population growth. And, big one, I grew up with cramps that I was told were on a par with child labor, or slightly less. NO FREAKING WAY was I going to CHOOSE to go through that. And then have to take care, support, worry about, etc., a child.

Adoption? If I thought I was the right person.

I think that if half the people in this country who have kids took a hard look at what their learned parenting skills were from their own situations when growing up, they'd all just say, "No!" And that would not be a bad thing.

[Mara]

When people ask me why I don't want kids my response is that I'm too selfish. It's really the only response that they will understand (because usually they are carting around 2 or 3 screaming brats that have taken over their lives).

"Because I hate babies and children and have a near-pathological fear and revulsion at the idea of pregnancy" works pretty well too! It does get you some odd looks, though.

[FineAlready]

I personally chose to have kids in order to ruin the environment. Our favorite activities include plover-hunting, spilling nuclear waste in rivers, and spraying as many aerosol cans as possible to create a larger hole in the ozone.

After that, my "mini-me" fans me while I sit on my chaise lounge and sip tea made from tiger bones. He does all the household chores and brings me a rhino horn to gnaw on when I wake up in the middle of the night, I find it comforting. Yes, having children is totally selfish, I will own it.

OMG, hilarious!

[Velvet]

"Because I hate babies and children and have a near-pathological fear and revulsion at the idea of pregnancy" works pretty well too! It does get you some odd looks, though.

Yeah, like, "Oh, you poor thing. You aren't a real woman if you don't want children!"

Seriously, some people are just not wired for it and are better off being left alone. The baby facists need to learn how to bite their tongues!

I have a friend who had a kid because her hubby bugged her for one forever. Adoption was not an option. It had to be from his genes. Whatever. She had the kid, told him he was fully responsible, and then pretty much ended up being an absentee parent.

Who is right and who is wrong? What happens to the child?

I look around and see so much bad and over parenting (both extremes) I am glad I'm not leaving any kids behind!

I don't hate them, just never really wanted any. If my situation had been different, I might have considered it. But with the choices and chances in my life, it's turned out differently. What the heck is so threatening to people when you're different?

[FineAlready]

EXACTLY! I fly down in a private plane because I find checking my chainsaw and whale harpoon to be too much of a hassle. Halfway there I like to open the jet fuel tanks and let a little "rain" out on eagle nests. The kids love it.

OMG, I am DYING here!

[FineAlready]

My mom said I was defective because I didnt want kids....see moms thread....sigh

Hmm, well, that's not very nice. In consolation, I offer you this:

I was telling my mother that I don't think I will ever want kids (I am 31 and married). She responded, "Well then definitely DON'T! I didn't really want to have kids, but your dad really did, and it was really hard for me to give up my life...[slowing down, realizing who she is talking to]...but of course I'm really glad that we had you, and I wouldn't change any of it..."

LOL! I'm an only child. I long suspected that I was a compromise of sorts. My childhood was fine, but my mom, like me, is a really active person. She played tennis and golf nonstop, and I ride horses. I definitely think that my existence was a bit of a drag on her active lifestyle, and I think I would have resented it if I were her and was lukewarm on having kids. After all, she was the one who really had to do the majority of the parenting. Anyway, I didn't feel unloved or anything, but, looking back, I think my mom would have been quite happy not having kids.

[myhorsefaith]

This has been coming up a lot lately for me, too. I'm 31, my sister has 3 kids and my husband's brother just had their first. And as of right now, we don't want children.

We get hit from both sides of the family with this - which pisses us off the most. Because the context they are using the "you are selfish to not have children" is in the vein of:

- you are not producing cousins for our sons/daughters - they won't have family to grow up with
-I'll never be an auntie/uncle
-I deserve grandchildren.

I can usually brush off the "you are being selfish" except when family uses it. I am not going to produce humans for your entertainment, sorry.

Usually, this is intertwined with how if I gave up my selfish life of owning and riding horses, I'd somehow choose the better life and have kids.

THAT gets under my skin. As if its one or the other. And if I happened to get pregnant, I somehow lose my own passion in life.

[JanM]

Actually, the most selfish act of all is having kids because you want them to support you in your old age. Or having kids so you can live vicariously through them (watch Toddlers & Tiaras for a perfect example of this-kids with no lives, money spent on makeup, flippers, lessons, head shots, entry fees) even if they never have a choice in the matter.

[re-runs]

I am afraid that some people who have children do not look at the big picture. For every child that is born over the ability of earth`s capacity to support them, the quality of life goes down for everyone already born. We are reaching burgeoning proportions. Even if we find alternative fuels, there is only so much water and thus only so much land where people can live, so those that say there is still plenty of room are not informed or are in denial.

Something about experience in animal husbandry gives a person a wider, more educated perspective. I know of two very asthmatic individuals who married expecting to have 3 healthy children. Chances of that are about nill.

I think having children is more selfish that NOT having children when you look at it the big picture. Parents who are now putting pressure on their children to give them grandchildren came from a time when there weren`t as many people, less competition for resourses etc....... it is a whole nuther world from when they were in their child-bearing years. People who put pressure on thier children to have children can be very near sighted.

On the other hand, there are people who SHOULD have children because they are mentally mature and capable of supporting them and wanted them more than anything else in the world but those few are not like most people.

[jumpingmaya]

I don't think it is THAT simple...

I think it CAN be selfish to not have children... in certain circumstances. I think that for most, it is a choice.

I don't think there is anything worse than people having kids for the sake of it... the kids suffer from it.

I was always in the "will never have them camp"... Changed quite a bit in the last 6months...
I can't quite imagine my life without a family (used here in the sense of more than 2 people- even though 2 people could be a family too). However, I don't have the need/desire to actually HAVE kids- raise them, teach them, love them... why not. Have them- no thanks!

So- adoption will be my route of choice when I get there.. and if I find someone that is on my page.

The whole subject of abortion goes along the same line by the way. Some say it is selfish to have an abortion- as you aren't considering the unborn child...
Well, personally- I think it would be selfish to bring a child into this world that will not be loved and cherished the way it deserves...

These subjects are almost too personal to be evaluated.

However, with the outside pressure- it's just that: pressure. There is pressure to conform to the "norm" throughout society. Being "blamed" for not having kids is just another aspect of that...

[Bozilla]

North American society has such strong "children are everything" strictures that those who dislike children can be very good at social politeness when forced into proximity with children. This social facade is usually mistaken by parents and those who want to be parents as "potential good parent." If someone has expressed a preference for no children there is a certain degree of obnoxiousness in telling that person they would be a good parent.

There are also those who choose to be childless but enjoy children in small doses. These people often do either volunteer, or just become great aunts/uncles to their siblings' kids. Maybe they would be good parents, but maybe they know that they haven't got the patience or other needed traits to handle kids full time.

I completely agree with this, particularly the part about enjoying children in small doses and that making me a great Auntie. I worked for years as a child photographer and was constantly asked about my children. People saw me work so well with their little ones that they assumed I must be a mom. However, little did they know that I was not sad to see them leave when the work was done. I know that I do not personally have the patience level to deal with kids on a 24 hour basis. I also feel that I should want a child at least as much as I've obsessively wanted a puppy or horse, before bringing one into the world. Kids are kind of like a face tattoo, you'd better be committed before getting one.

[candyappy]

Yes. No. Maybe?


If you opt to not have children are you being selfish about your resources or responsible for not bringing another life into the world?

You should only have children if you and your husband want them. Since you are totally responsible for them for the next 18 years ( or much, much more now a days) why would you have them to please someone else or for any other reason??

[Velvet]

Kids are kind of like a face tattoo, you'd better be committed before getting one.

That's the best one yet!

[meupatdoes]

I also feel that I should want a child at least as much as I've obsessively wanted a puppy or horse, before bringing one into the world.

Actually, the experience of owning and developing sport horses confirmed for me my long held belief that I don't want kids.

The level of commitment that is required to get up every day and go ride several horses and the CONSTANT, CONSTANT, UNRELENTINGNESS of it all, not to mention the never ending financial hoops...

...and that's just the horses.
Fundamentally you go ride a couple hours a day and then go home. You can take days off.

You can sell them if you really need a break.
Not so with kids.

And some kids won't turn out well. No seriously. Maybe even yours! We all like to think it will all just be peachy but it is the ultimate roulette wheel. They get weird mental disorders, physical things, just have 'meh' personalities, cause endless problems for you when THEY make bad decisions, whatever. I mean, we all know people who are great so their parents must have done something right, but who have siblings that are just generally useless "meh" people, or outright jerks, or have something wrong with them that NO ONE could ever have helped or done anything about. One of my best friends went to Oxford/the Sorbonne/Various Prestigious European Schools and is now happily married and fully independent in Munich. Her brother has major OCD, won't leave his room, won't shower, and gets so violent his mother frequently has to call the police. Aaaaannnd..... you're stuck.

[bluemooncowgirl]

I've always known I wanted to be a mom. I love my two creep-agers (13 and 15) to the moon and beyond. They were both very much wanted although one of them was a surprise. ("Wow, how did THAT happen? Oh yeah... we went canoeing without life jackets. Once.")

On the other hand, when their dad and I split, I knew two things to be true: I didn't want any more kids, and I didn't want to deal with step kids. So call me selfish if you need to and if it makes you feel better... it is what it is. And I was honest and up-front early on when I met my current hubs. MrBlueMoon didn't truly want children either and outwardly admits he is too selfish for them. He is, however, an amazing step father. Go figure.

So I guess I can see both sides of the story.

[Epona142]

I'm writing this without reading ANY replies.

I considered having an abortion. I was called selfish.

I gave a child up for adoption at birth. I was called selfish.

I chose not to have "my own" children. I was called selfish.

My friends chose to have children in a less than stellar situation. They were called selfish.

Different friends have seven well raised and wonderful children. They've been called selfish.


STOP being concerned what someone else has to think or say about you. Since when did THEIR opinion truly matter? There will always be someone somewhere that will not agree with you choice.

Accept YOUR choice and embrace it. That's is all that is needed.

[Velvet]

STOP being concerned what someone else has to think or say about you. Since when did THEIR opinion truly matter? There will always be someone somewhere that will not agree with you choice.

Accept YOUR choice and embrace it. That's is all that is needed.

Yeah, but then, when we're in a bad mood, what would we have to complain about? We need a reason for a good rant sometimes.