[bayou_bengal]

Here is a link to the latest facebook page created by the rabid animal rights extremists who are trying to get carriage horses banned in NYC and trying to confiscate the carriage horses from their owners.

A new wrinkle is a proposal to amend the current ordinance dealing with carriage horses to dictate to whom and how CURRENT carriage horses could change hands EVEN if the proposal to ban them doesn't go through.

Very interesting--- If you think this kind of thing is part of the plan only for carriage horses-- think again.

https://www.facebook.com/#!/WhatWill...eCarriageHorse

Please also visit and <LIKE> these pages on facebook that promote carriage and working horses--

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/No...17752678302324

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Ca...64550006933684

[Cielo Azure]

I reported the page as a scam -as far as I can figure that is what it is...

But as the author of the page is refering to carriage drivers as "slave drivers," one could report it on "hate speech" grounds as well.

It just takes a moment, and I do wonder if enough of us reported it -if we could actually shut it down!

[oldpony66]

whoa... scam? are they not allowed a Facebook page because you don't agree with what they are proposing? fwiw, I don't either - but they have just as much right to have that page as anyone else.

[Rhiannonjk]

They have a link to CotH posted there now. At least all sides of the story are allowed to post here, instead of only those that agree with them.

[MandyVA]

I hope some of those nutjobs do come over here. Maybe we should link them to some threads about horses that actually need help?

And while you're on facebook, you could like this page:

http://www.facebook.com/HorsesAgainstJobLoss

[Cielo Azure]

Scam comes from the fact that the people who head the carriage ban fight also have an interest in the property that the horses are kept on. That is a huge conflict of interest and a scam. It isn't about the horses, follow the money.

[carolprudm]

They're linking to this thread and saying that we are opposed to free speech. I posted that they deleted posts and banned posters. We'll see how long that stays up

[JSwan]

They're linking to this thread and saying that we are opposed to free speech. I posted that they deleted posts and banned posters.

Oh, the irony....

They're fanatics. There's little difference between them and people who fly planes into buildings.

Those people just haven't committed any violent acts.

Yet.

Eventually they'll step over the line and find FBI agents investigating them for animal enterprise terrorism.

[bayou_bengal]

Really the two proposals strike at the very heart of our constitutional right to own private property, and be secure from unreasonable seizures of private property.

One proposal would simply amend laws already on the books that govern the licensing of carriage horses and the manner in which they are removed from the rolls of active horses.

The other proposal Intro 86A would ban the carriages, outlaw the iconic carriage rides AND direct to whom, how, when and where the owners of those horses could sell or give away their horses.

Both proposals seek to take away the rights of horse owners in the NYC carriage trade to divest themselves of their own private property to whom they wish.

Both would stipulate that licensed NYC carriage horse could ONLY be sold or given to "recognized" sanctuaries or individuals who could, by law, NEVER ride or drive them again.

It is unclear as to whether these proposals would FORCE all carriage horse owners to HAVE to give up their horses, or if those with farms would be allowed to keep the horses they own and retire them for themselves.

Of course, carriage owners without their own farms or who could not afford board to keep a non-working horse would be faced with having to sell or give their horses to the "selected" sanctuaries. It also would seem that the carriage horse owners would not be part of the decision making process in selecting the "approved" sanctuaries since none of them belong to the anti-carriage groups like NYCLASS, Win Animal Rights, Friends of the Animals, or the Coalition to Ban Horse-Drawn Carriages in NYC that are pushing this legislation.

Adoption of such proposals as law, IMO, would pose a threat to all horse owners by extension because it would set a precedent

[oldpony66]

well I did support their right to have a page even if we disagree with it. On the other hand, I posted a simple question and my post got deleted. I guess free speech is NOT actually part of their agenda. My question was simply for them to list "sanctuaries" that I could donate to. I guess those sanctuaries don't exist, or they don't care to even know if they really exist or not.

[bayou_bengal]

Well oldpony66 there is a sanctuary called Blue Star Equiculture http://www.equiculture.org that has already been named as an official retirement farm by the Horse and Carriage Association of NYC-- an organization that most of the owners of the 68 licensed carriages in NYC belong to as a matter of fact.

The radical animal rights extremists refuse to recognize Blue Star as a retirement farm or refuge because they do still drive and ride the horese there to give them needed exercise and keep them healthy. Of course the horses are only exercised to their capablilites. If a horse is not sound for riding or driving, then it isn't.

The radical anti-carriage people like the ones with this page don't think ANY horses should be ridden or driven AT ALL, especially not if they are former NYC carriage horses. It doesn't matter to them how young and fit any of these horses are. They want to see to it that these horses can NEVER be ridden or driven again once they are retired.

We have asked over and over for them to list the sanctuaries that will be able and willing to care for the horses under this stringent "NO WORK" demand and they have yet to list any.

[oldpony66]

That might explain the deletion of my question.

I met a gentleman about two years ago - totally random situation, grocery store, DD wearing breeches - we start talking horses and a relative of his ran a retirement/vacation farm for NYC carriage horses in NE PA. I wish I had asked him the name of it. We weren't talking animal rights or anything, just horses. So I know that some exist. It would be nice if a list could be compiled to offset the "they all go to slaughter" talk!

[bayou_bengal]

That might explain the deletion of my question.

I met a gentleman about two years ago - totally random situation, grocery store, DD wearing breeches - we start talking horses and a relative of his ran a retirement/vacation farm for NYC carriage horses in NE PA. I wish I had asked him the name of it. We weren't talking animal rights or anything, just horses. So I know that some exist. It would be nice if a list could be compiled to offset the "they all go to slaughter" talk!

Well, because the NYC carriage owners and drivers have been under attack for so many years-- about 30-- and because of the rara proclivity for sculking arround with video cameras, I think most of the farms that act as retirement and vacation venues for the NYC horses try to keep a low profile.

Blue Star is the exception up there in the northeast. They are actively involved in supporting the rights of people to farm and run carriage liveries AND they provide a place for the horses, who need a place, to go to for retirement.

And because of their open involvement with the NYC carriage horses, the farm and its founders and volunteers have already been on the receiving end of rara wrath. They have been called names and accused of running a "faux rretirement home."

[LauraKY]

Don't you understand how free speech works? It's only appropriate when you agree with the owner of the page. Isn't that in the constitution?

To anyone checking out COTH for the first time...we practice free speech on COTH! BTW, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a troll.

[danceronice]

They deleted your question because like most activists they're not interested in a discussion, just in screaming their opinion until everyone either agrees with them or is too annoyed to argue any longer.

Calling drivers "slave drivers" certainly qualifies as hate speech enough for me to report them.

[carolprudm]

Don't you understand how free speech works? It's only appropriate when you agree with the owner of the page. Isn't that in the constitution?

To anyone checking out COTH for the first time...we practice free speech on COTH! BTW, just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a troll.

Just checked, my post was deleted and I'm blocked.

So much for free speech

[MandyVA]

I want to see THIS shut down!!

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06/...to-rent-a-dog/

That is total exploitation of dogs in Central Park! It's unregulated! There is no set charge for dog rental in the city code, no temp limits, no vacation from the city, and some stupid dog rescue is profiting from it!

How dare anyone use a poor innocent dog this way! Dogs should be laying on couches! Handing them off to strangers who don't own dogs is dangerous and stressful! It's abuse!

I'm starting five Facebook pages to expose the lawlessness and inhumanity of dog rental companies!

[ThoroughbredFancy]

Damn, they deleted my comment. It didn't outwardly say anything against their cause. I new I should have copied and pasted it. They also banned me from their page. I just said that calling someone a slave driver off of assumptions is a bit much and that there are sanctuaries, rescues and other groups that re-home or offer accommodations for retired carriage horses and those should be promoted. I did say that some people are scared that if you take away these horses that they could be next. Not saying that's right, but you can see where they're coming from and fearing for their personal property. It was a well structured response and I wasn't trolling. I did say/agree that there does need to be something set up for these horses after their career is over.

These people really are ridiculous. There are two sides of a story, and somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

[bayou_bengal]

Well, actually in this case, the truth is NOT in the middle-- it is on the side of all the carriage horse livery owners and drivers in this country who take good care of the horses and are just doing what almost everyone else does-- going to work, and just trying to earn a decent living.

The anti-carriage horse extremists have hounded and harassed the carriage owners and drivers in NYC for THIRTY years. They have formed several non-profit groups with the sole purpose of running law-abiding citizens conducting LEGAL businesses out of business.

During the same thirty years that these extremists have been purposely distorting the Truth and spreading LIES to anyone they can buttonhole, there hasn't BEEN A SINGLE citation written for abuse or cruelty regarding the NYC carriage horses. NOT ONE SINGLE CITATION, yet these people continue to call carriage driving "cruel and abusive." They call the carriage drivers "slave drivers."

They harass the drivers almost weekly at the hack line where they wait to pick up passengers. They shout at and harangue the drivers and passengers alike often cursing them.

They are constantly holding protests, demonstrations and creating anti-carriage horse petitions to present at city hall.More recently they have been trying to get two pieces of legislation passed in NYC and one at the state capitol that would force carriage horse Owens to have to surrender their horses-- THEIR PERSONAL PROPERTY-- to "sanctuaries" when the horses are retired from service.

THey constantly distort the truth, to put in mildly, to raise funds to continue their crusade to take away the livelihoods of approximately of the 200 people and horsesthat are connected with the 68 carriages licensed and authorized to operate in NYC mainly in and around Central Park.

The fact is, just like many retiring competitive horses, when carriage horses are retired from daily livery they are still sound, and have value as private driving horses or as horses doing light duty as special occasion horses doing a few weddings and parties a month.

Surely their owners should be able to keep the same rights as millions of other horse owners have-- the right to sell or give their horses to whomever they CHOOSE, not to whom some radical animal rights advocates (who don't own them) decides should have them.

These radical animal rights extremist-sponsored bills strike at the heart of an individual's right to own private property and sell or give said property to whomever THEY wish.

Again, the NYC carriage owners and drivers have NOT done anything criminal- they have NEVER been cited for cruelty or abuse BUT because some vocal fanatics have it in for their businesses, they are under vicious and unrelenting attack.

And by extension so are all other livery owners and even horse owners because the people behind all of this believe that horses should not be "enslaved" by being ridden or driven for any reason. They believe they all horses should be "allowed to run free in the pasture and just be horses.".

[carolprudm]

Damn, they deleted my comment. It didn't outwardly say anything against their cause. I new I should have copied and pasted it. They also banned me from their page. I just said that calling someone a slave driver off of assumptions is a bit much and that there are sanctuaries, rescues and other groups that re-home or offer accommodations for retired carriage horses and those should be promoted. I did say that some people are scared that if you take away these horses that they could be next. Not saying that's right, but you can see where they're coming from and fearing for their personal property. It was a well structured response and I wasn't trolling. I did say/agree that there does need to be something set up for these horses after their career is over.

These people really are ridiculous. There are two sides of a story, and somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

Well that's 29 "likes" and at least 3 deleted/banned