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  1. #1
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    Default UPDATE: Passed Senate - contact Governor BAD slaughter legislation in NJ vote Monday

    UPDATE: The bill passed in the Senate and is on the way to the Governor who has NOT been agriculturally friendly. However, if we make a case, perhaps we can get this slowed down long enough to modify the language and make this workable.

    Current law would close down horse sales (remember not every horse goes to slaughter) and can cause issues in transporting horses. Also gives SPCA some standing in horse issues where it has been with Dept of Ag

    OK... here we go again

    NJ has no equine slaughter houses, never has, isn't likely to have one. But AR people have pushed through a no slaughter for human consumption in NJ law. Not a fan, especially since the goal is to work against all slaughter of all animals in all states, using this for leverage, but I guess is made enough people feel good that it got through the Assembly

    The problem is in the amendments, which authorize the NJSPCA to stop trailers in NJ to see they aren't
    transporting to slaughter. These non-government, uniformed and armed SPCA 'officers' can stop you and ask for proof that you aren't slaughtering your horse. OK... they wouldn't go after ME would they? Well, there is a fine involved AND some of the proceeds go to SPCA. Still you say... they wouldn't

    I say wouldn't they? A local columnist in the Star Ledger is on a rant about SPCA. They are saying they plan to stop CARS with pets in them and fining drivers for unrestrained pets - no law against it, but they will be doing this none-the-less. Another report came in to him about a woman with a dog with a corded coat. She had a guy in a black uniform banging on her door because her dog wasn't groomed enough. Another woman had them on her case because her dog spends much of the day in her yard with a covered porch, but no specific dog house. She works from home and lets him in and out at will.

    Anyway... if you are from NJ PLEASE see below, contact your legislators and ask them to VOTE NO on the slaughter bill as it stands now. At least the amendments about transport need work. This is opposed by NJ Horse Council, the Equine Advisory Board and the Farm Council

    The NJSPCA has put in changes that can affect you – the average horse owner It is proposed that the SPCA can stop horse trailers and make you prove that you are not taking your horse to slaughter or be subject to a fine A fine that is collected by the SPCA and for their benefit (see something fishy here?)' The bill needs more work to be useful. It is opposed by NJ Farm Bureau on behalf of horses, NJHC, and other horse interests

    The bills are linked below

    The Assembly passed this bill and the originator of the bill (Lesniak) was not interested in hearing criticism

    PLEASE VOTE NO on NJ A2023/S1976 Horse Slaughter
    A ban on horse slaughter does not provide a solution!
    New Jersey A2023 and
    New Jersey S1976
    are posted for a final vote on Monday June 25 in the New Jersey Senate.

    The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) has been pushing hard for these bills passage -your voice is needed now!

    As currently written, transportation within the state would be enforced by NJSCPA agents who are also cited as the direct beneficiaries of the proposed fines! This could lead to severe harassment of responsible, tax-paying horse owners. How can it be determined what the final destination of the horses is ?

    If those bills were to pass and could be enforced, it would not just create a welfare crisis for horses, but would bring it home to New Jersey. What would happen to the hundreds of horses that are currently sold weekly throughout the state to dealers that may or may not sell them for slaughter? This bill would effectively shut down the rescue efforts done through the Camelot Auction and other auctions, that offer the horses another opportunity for a good home.

    There are no solutions offered in these bills, only bans.
    We need to be focusing our attention on the actual welfare of horses, not some emotional appeal that makes the situation worse.

    Please send a message to your State Senator and ask him or her to oppose A2023/S1976 when it comes to a vote in the Senate.

    You can find your state Senator at the link below:
    http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/members/abcroster.asp
    please contact them ASAP

    HSUS has been pushing for the bill’s passage if legislators do not hear from horse owners, they do not know they are making a mistake.
    Last edited by Drive NJ; Jun. 26, 2012 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Updating info



  2. #2
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    Default

    It is proposed that the SPCA can stop horse trailers and make you prove that you are not taking your horse to slaughter
    that is ridiculous. How do you prove that anyway? "uh see the saddles there? we were going to RIDE them in the NJ horse park."


    and the rest of the law? does that mean you can't slaughter your own horse for your own consumption, or pay a small mobile packer to come slaugher your own horse(s) for human consumption? that's certainly well within your rights.



  3. #3
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    Default

    This is an example of Under Ground Law and can be challenged. When Susan Parisio challenged the University of Davis on their minimal care for equine standards (they printed that it was THE LAW) she was not able to proceed very far as the courts would not hear her challenge as it was NOT A LAW...however many peace officers in California were interpreting it as such, and prosecuting. Since it is not a law, a lawyer can demand the dropping of all charges. However, that does cost the individual to defend themselves



  4. #4
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    Default

    Your tinfoil hats are slipping!





    <hides reynolds wrap>
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drive NJ View Post

    This is opposed by NJ Horse Council, the Equine Advisory Board and the Farm Council
    Of Course it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drive NJ View Post
    What would happen to the hundreds of horses that are currently sold weekly throughout the state to dealers that may or may not sell them for slaughter? This bill would effectively shut down the rescue efforts done through the Camelot Auction and other auctions, that offer the horses another opportunity for a good home.
    And there you have the real agenda.

    Since we are talking about deception:

    Frank Carper's minions would no longer be able to use the "big bad truck" as their most successful advertising tool.


    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drive NJ View Post
    I say wouldn't they? A local columnist in the Star Ledger is on a rant about SPCA. They are saying they plan to stop CARS with pets in them and fining drivers for unrestrained pets - no law against it, but they will be doing this none-the-less.
    Actually... there is.

    http://www.danielrrosen.com/2012/06/...strained-pets/



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldpony66 View Post

    It's been on the books for many years. But does not state that dogs have to be in seat belts, etc..

    http://www.lombardolawoffices.com/ne...nt-enforcment/



  8. #8
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    Default

    I don't see anything in the text of A2023 or S1976 that says or implies that SPCSA people can stop trailers...where is does it say?



  9. #9
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    Default They interpret it any way they like

    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    I don't see anything in the text of A2023 or S1976 that says or implies that SPCSA people can stop trailers...where is does it say?
    NJSPCA interprets the laws to their favor. The law about dogs having to ride with seat belts does NOT read that way at all, it only says animals must not be transported in a cruel manner. (Any animal)

    One officer insists that cruel is loose in the car with his head hanging out the window.... another will interpret it as a horse riding backwards in a trailer...

    And they will interpret it to mean they can pull over horse trailers to check and see where the horses are going to, and if all proper paperwork is aboard. A big money-maker for them if they can even make it LOOK like you might be transporting a horse to slaughter (no coggins on board). Sure, you might win in court, but in the end, it will be costly to defend yourself. Many will just give up and pay the $250 fine.
    Last edited by Shannna; Jun. 23, 2012 at 11:21 AM. Reason: Last paragraph disappeared.



  10. #10
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    Remember that "on the books" does not equal either funded or enforceable.

    This sounds about like passing a law that you can't grow coconuts in Connecticut.

    Probably could give the Camelot sale killer buyers a bit of a headache, though.



  11. #11
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    OK, but WHY would one pull over for an SPCA person? I know that I don't have to pull over for ANYONE who is not in a marked police cruiser here in Mass and I can't imagine you have to pull over for a private citizen in NJ either. If someone, not law enforcement, tries to impede my progress...by blocking the road or something, THEY are the ones in trouble, not me.

    I've refused to pull over for an unmarked police vehicle, even with their little light stuck on top. I didn't get in trouble, even. There are weirdos out there who order police paraphernalia through mail and prey on women. When an unmarked wanted to pull me over, I drove to the closest, occupied, gas station and called the police on the phone, to verify that it was, in fact, an officer of theirs. He was, but he said he understood, he'd wanted to tell me a tail light was out, they aren't actually supposed to be pulling you over in an unmarked car.



  12. #12
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    Default

    At first I thought the idea of the NJSPCA stopping trailers left and right was way overblown, until I spoke to a equine vet friend of mine who used to work for the state. She told me there she was involved in several incidents in court regarding the NJSPCA, whose officers were clueless about horses and livestock. One case involved a stakeout at an auction (not Camelot) and anyone who didn't properly transport their animals was fined. This included a woman who bought a few chickens at the auction and her friend was sitting in the back seat with them while they drove back to her house, which was just down the street. This vet didn't think the idea of the NJSPCA stopping ordinary trailers to make sure horses weren't being shipped to slaughter outlandish at all.



  13. #13
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    "Possible" isn't "probable." We all know that generally speaking, horses leaving a sale and bound for slaughter are not going to be riding in private, 2-horse trailers, private or hired goosenecks, or well-known shippers like Brook Ledge. They're going to be in cattle trailers or box trailers, crammed in like sardines, and the NJSPCA officers will have a good idea who these operators are. Probably be laying for 'em just outside of town. I would sumise that as for the pulling-over, they'll probably have the blue lights inside the grille of the car just like the CT "stealth" troopers do. I do not think this is enforcement that most of us should need to be worried about.

    One of my boarders was on the highway recently and saw a convoy of 4 trailers like these, probably bound north out of New Holland, and there was absolutely no mistaking what they were. It ruined her entire trip to have seen them.

    Realistically, funding is tight everywhere so if there's any will to enforce this law at all, it's going to be tightly targeted at the people most likely to be violating it--not egregious harassment of private citizens with their pet or show horses.



  14. #14
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    LOVE IT.... Scream slaughter is bad, then don't expect government to enforce laws against it.

    Simple solution is to realize horses are livestock and nothing more. They are NOT companion animals or pets and they don't have rights.



  15. #15
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    OK, but WHY would one pull over for an SPCA person?
    Maybe they put the law in place to get rid of SPCA officers...



  16. #16
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    The definition of "livestock" is animals raised for food. Horses in the United States do not belong to that category. Historically, they were work animals, which puts them in a unique category of neither livestock nor pets.

    Since nowadays most places they are "work" animals of a sporting nature, and a great many people indeed do regard them as companion animals and even pets, our society is in a state of transition philosophically as to exactly what our expectations and demands for handling them should be.

    Even in 1900 these questions were already on the table.

    There are ideals, there are realities and there are gray areas in the middle; the point I think we can all agree on is that owners themselves need to take humane responsibility for the welfare of their animals--whether work, pet, OR livestock.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    The definition of "livestock" is animals raised for food. Horses in the United States do not belong to that category. Historically, they were work animals, which puts them in a unique category of neither livestock nor pets...

    There are many definitions just as there are many types of livestock.
    (lîv'stŏk')
    n.
    Domestic animals, such as cattle or horses, raised for home use or for profit, especially on a farm

    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/livestock#ixzz1yjllaYuS

    As for horses being food... I can buy horsemeat to eat. Horses have been eaten in the US before. We sell cattle for export to be eaten. Horses are also transported out of the US to be eaten. Just because it's not available in supermarkets in the US doesn't mean they are not livestock.



  18. #18
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    You know, I usually stay out of these threads. Since I live in NJ, I thought I'd see what is being said. And, for the first time, I am HIDING ALL POSTS by a COTH-er. Thanks, 7HL.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanWeber View Post
    You know, I usually stay out of these threads. Since I live in NJ, I thought I'd see what is being said. And, for the first time, I am HIDING ALL POSTS by a COTH-er. Thanks, 7HL.

    I know I disagree a lot with 7, but I find him to have a decent head on the shoulders in these topics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  20. #20
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    I find it bizarre, that those that are rescuing horses from slaughter and those opposed to slaughter are up in arms about a law that is trying to prevent horses going to slaughter. Maybe some rescues are more concerned about running a business and making money then really rescuing horses from slaughter. I find it repulsive the "rescues" that are really front people for kill buyers.

    Now I am not opposed to slaughter and think it is an option that ALL horse owners should have. I am also not opposed to breeding horses specifically for horsemeat. Before anyone asks, what I would do with my horses, that really is my business and should be my choice.


    I am opposed to this law because it's the type of law that RARAs are trying to get passed. Anything and everything to discourage horse ownership and use.

    I don't go to NJ to often usually just to the Cowtown Rodeo. There are the occassional RARAs there, but they aren't taken to serious.


    I encourage the liberal use of the ignore feature.



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