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  1. #1
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    Default Meet your Olympic show jumping team!

    Check out my wrap-up of the Olympic selection action, complete with some great behind-the-scenes photos of the adorable Flexible!

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/...w-jumping-team



  2. #2
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    I'm not sure what Margie means when she's saying the whole team was picked subjectively. Does she mean not enough weight was given to the selection trials? I could understand the sentiment since the co-winner (her) was placed 9th and Charlie was 5th despite being 35th after the trials. But on the other hand, Reed won and continued to have strong showings and was rewarded accordingly.



  3. #3
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    I have to say I agree with Margie. Why waste the hoses' legs in all those selection trials if it was really the observation events that held all the weight? Not to mention Antares didn't jump that many clean rounds yet he was still named to the team? I think Margie should have been at least named as alternate. Charlie had some great rounds but not enough in my opinion to say he would perform better than Margie who has so much experience. Plus her horse has already proven himself.



  4. #4
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    Margie does have a point- If I'm remembering correctly, of the 4 horses on the team plus the first alternate, only two of them (Cylanna and Flexible) jumped in the trials. I personally think we have the right team, but if the trials aren't going to be given that much weight, the USEF should be more up front with that so people don't put their horses through it for nothing.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Great photos! Thanks!



  6. #6
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    Default

    The trials unquestionably did their job. Would Reed Kessler be on the team, if not for the trials? They gave her the chance to earn her way onto the team. The trials unquestionably carried a lot of weight.

    I personally think we're sending our best possible team, and the trials were a big part of that.

    I think you just can't think of the trials as the one and only determinant of who would be on the team. Rather, they gave riders an opportunity to prove that they should be considered for the team.



  7. #7
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    Default

    Did the other thread about Margie's comments just disappear or am I blind?

    I also noticed the above article was edited pertaining to Margie's comments.



  8. #8
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    No, the thread is still here. See post #66 by Molly Sorge.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Thanks for explaining the tone and intention that you heard Molly. It was different from my interpretation of it.

    Maybe you could do an article on the selection process after the Olympics?



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rel6 View Post
    Did the other thread about Margie's comments just disappear or am I blind?

    I also noticed the above article was edited pertaining to Margie's comments.
    Yes, the majority of this thread as it originally existed has disappeared. Wow, I'm extremely disappointed in COTH. I'm not surprised that they edited the original article that they posted on the web (they've done that before), but deleting so many posts from this thread is a new low.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    Yes, the majority of this thread as it originally existed has disappeared. Wow, I'm extremely disappointed in COTH. I'm not surprised that they edited the original article that they posted on the web (they've done that before), but deleting so many posts from this thread is a new low.
    Are you talking about this thread started by Molly Sorge?

    Or the other longer thread started by a different poster about the objective/subjective selection process? The one where people discussed Margie's comments at length?

    The other thread is still there, and it does not look to me as if any posts have been deleted from it. Specifically, my posts were at the top of page two and page three, and well down page four. They are still in the same spots. If any posts had been deleted above them, my posts would have moved up in the order. They have not.



  12. #12
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    Default

    The news article was edited in response to a request from Margie after posters on here spooked her.

    The original thread to which the previous poster is referring is intact. No 'new low' has been reached. Really.

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=357766



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molly Sorge View Post
    The news article was edited in response to a request from Margie after posters on here spooked her.

    The original thread to which the previous poster is referring is intact. No 'new low' has been reached. Really.

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=357766

    I can understand how Margie would be disappointed and I don't think she said anything terrible in the article but maybe I didn't read the whole thing?



  14. #14
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    I believe McLain and Beezie were given a bye from the trials, right? I don't think you can assign any special weight to them not fully engaging in the trials or mean that the trails had no weight themselves. If you are going to give certain people a bye from some part of the process you really are saying it is their slot to lose and everyone else is competing from the remaining slots. That might be the only part of the process that was clearer than mud. And personally speaking, two riders with so much experience, even if on newer, less tested horses (but not green by any means) are the kind of riders you want on a team where cumulative scores count.

    I don't know if there is an easy answer - we did the purely objective approach before and it didn't work. We used to do the purely subjective approach but it was a different era.

    I don't know if if there is answer, but when I looked at the observation events, I really thought the only one that truly mattered in my opinion (and my opinion is not that informed and doesn't matter for crap) was Spruce Meadows because I think/assume it would probably be most similar to conditions in London: big grass field, more often than not, big WET slippery grass field, I thought the course designer was the same one for the Olympics (so I would think he might preview some of his Olympic "questions" in the big classes, a big knowledgeable noisy crowd, a very international field of horses (in other words not just us competing against us - we always look good in that group). And of course, close enough to London to see how the horse has come along since the trials.

    And if my view was in any way similar to any of the officials, it sure would have been nice if they said, "hey, we will be watching all these events and quite frankly, we will really be watching the people who got the byes and the top X in the trials the most. But we really will be watching you at Spruce Meadows, so if you want your best shot at the team and have to pick and choose your events, you better pick this one."

    But for all I know, they could have said exactly that.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  15. #15
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    I think it would be interesting to see if there could be some sort of point system, completely objective. Give 40% of the weight to the trials, 30% to each observation event. Figure out points based on faults accumulated, and then two spots from the team go directly to two people with the least points. Other two spots remain selected by a committee including chef d'equipe. Not sure if it would actually work, of course.



  16. #16
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    Personally I am in favor of the system used this year - the long list is developed objectively and then the selectors can choose the riders they feel give us the best shot at gold.

    I am NOT a fan of the purely objective/computer ranking approach, based largely on the results that we've had with that in the past. Not that there haven't been some good performances, but overall... I'd say it hasn't served the team as well (other than limiting the exposure to lawsuits.)
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  17. #17
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    Sounds like the biggest surprise is Charlie. He did say in another COTH article that George Morris told him to just keep jumping clear rounds. I didn't really know if the selection committee would choose him although I felt he should be the reserve rider. The fact that the selection committee did consider Charlie fairly also supports the general horsemanship that we should be supporting. They did not penalize Charlie, as rider, for making the best decision for his horse. Perhaps this is where Margie might be most interested. As I recall, Indigo was coming off of an injury at the original selection trials. There will always be that wonder that if she had done "the horseman's thing" and not run him in those original trials would she also have been given the suggestion to "just jump clean rounds" in the observation events.

    We can never know the answer and the selection process is never going to be perfect for everyone. But I don't think the purely objective teams work well. Last year when the computer list selected for the Super League it did not serve us well. And I clearly remember some of the objective Olympic teams...



  18. #18
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    Margie did Indigo in the trials - he was day to day with an bruise/abscess prior to the trials, but recovered and did well in them (especially considering he was not being ridden/jumped for a week or so before). She also did 2 of the observation trials (KY and Devon) and with the exception of one class did well in all of them. I believe the only observation trials (other than the west coast trials) that she missed was Spruce Meadows.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Margie did Indigo in the trials....She also did 2 of the observation trials (KY and Devon) and with the exception of one class did well in all of them. I believe the only observation trials (other than the west coast trials) that she missed was Spruce Meadows.
    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but....

    IIRC, Margie and Reed both did the trials in March and had an equal number of total faults there. Reed and Margie both did 2 of the 4 observation events and both did well except for one 12 fault score each. Very similar results. If you were going to factor in Grand Prix experience, well... Let's just say Margie has quite a bit more.

    Reed ended up 3rd on the final list and Margie was 9th.

    I can't fault anyone for wondering about that. Especially if it was not clearly spelled out that Spruce Meadows would be the deciding factor.

    Again, I think we have a strong team, and I hope to see them succeed in London.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rel6 View Post
    I think it would be interesting to see if there could be some sort of point system, completely objective. Give 40% of the weight to the trials, 30% to each observation event. Figure out points based on faults accumulated, and then two spots from the team go directly to two people with the least points. Other two spots remain selected by a committee including chef d'equipe. Not sure if it would actually work, of course.
    Purely objective is a joke, and it has led us to having completely unqualified riders make the team (remember Alison Firestone and Jox? No one was more surprised than she, and she ultimately withdrew as she knew he wasn't up to it). If a particular team jumps up and has the BEST performances of their careers for that brief time, they can make the team and are COMPLETELY not worthy of it.

    The selection method this year makes a lot of sense, and seems to have found the right people. Since none of us are privy to the discussions of the selectors, perhaps something about Margie and Indigo bothered them enough not to use her, regardless of how her scores stacked up to the others. The selectors know a lot that we don't. I think they got it right.
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