[jch]

I'm being a little sarcastic here, but I wonder, are spurs, a crop, a saddle, a dressage whip, reins, or a bit artifical aids? After all the horse doesn't come equiped with them! My point is, we need to ride each horse the way that is best for that individual. We can't treat each the same as another because they are all different. I think that we need to respect one another and allow for some individual differences.

[pwynnnorman]

Wow, wow, wow!!!

This is, hands down, the most revealing thread I have ever, ever read.

Not only are many of you getting suspiciously defensive, but it is truly and utterly AMAZING and utter REVEALING how you absolutely refuse to answer my question: WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE, PEOPLE!!!!!!

You CAN'T answer that, can you? THAT's the problem--it isn't the bloody ear thingies at all. The problem is that you people are not willing to let go of an EXPEDIENT technique because to do so would force you to spend more time training and less time showing. By golly, isn't that at the heart of sooooo many issues this board has discussed: time vs. money, time vs. enjoyment, time vs. rewards. And you know what? It makes some of the other statements you make on other threads sound very, very hypocritical.


Devildog asked me to write up a rule change about the ear bunnies thing. Here's what I replied to her when she told me the AHSA people said they were unsure of the issue and that we should submit a rule change to resolve it:

Ha! In other words, they don't want to step in it.

Clearly, the plugs were meant to be illegal. No "rule change" should be necessary because there's no rule to change, is there? The applicable rule clearly states no artificial appliances or devices [except for those things Jumphigh Id'ed: saddle, bridle, etc.--BTW, Jumphigh, dressage REQUIRES the use of spurs because of what they demonstrate about the horse's training and submission), and ear plugs are undeniably artificial.

Anyway, though, I'd submit a change if the deadline weren't passed for members to do so. But think about it, Angel: if "they" aren't willing to admit that under the CURRENT rules, the plugs are illegal, how likely is it that "they" would EVER pass a change to make sure that they ARE illegal?

Nope, my friend. We've just caught them in yet another ill-considered, weak-willed, inconsistent position. You do realize that the mindset of the pure hunter people online can't even grasp why we're concerned? It's pretty hopeless, I'm afraid. They'll never get it because they'll never consider anything but their comfort and expedience. As long as the game is played in the way that they enjoy, they don't really care what the rules are!

[Clarke County]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by devildog20:
Melissa, I plan on showing Hunters. THAT is why I worry about it. And if I DO place second to a horse with ear plugs then I WILL protest it. Your post about your trainers horse not being able to function properly without earplugs proves my point. Obviously they do something or no one would use them. As Pwynn stated before, suitability comes to mind. But that is MY opinion. And funny how no one has a viable come back for why other horses in all other disciplines can live without ear plugs and not have nervous breakdowns. But that Hunters just can't do without them because they will be bothered by the noise. That is what I am curious about, I have tried to understand it but my trainers whom I have worked with in the past and present have taught me hard work with no gimmicks, and it can and does work. That is why I just can't for the life of me justify it, and I am sorry for that! I am a firm believer in the least amount of gimmicks possible. The only thing I have ever used was a running martengale on my TB who would throw his head back and almost hit me in the face. But that was for MY saftey. My saddle is properly fit to my horse, so there is no need for other padding. Besides that, a gel pad does not affect a horses senses. Again, sorry if I do not have the popular opinion. I know where you guys are coming from, I just don't agree with it!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Clarke County]

For some reason, my response (above) didn't get added: Not to add fuel to the fire, but I would disagree about the comment re gel pads; in my opinion they're very similar to ear plugs and they DO affect the horse's sense. Gel pads make a horse with a sensitive back more comfortable by cushioning the impact on his back, just as plugs make a horse more comfortable by "cushioning" him from loud sounds. I don't see any distinction - both unintrusive aids to make a horse happier.

Geez folks.
I think that maybe the changing of nosebands as the horses exit the ring should be of bigger concern. I watched at the in gate of our last show & ALL of the nosebands in one particular barn were changed as the saddle & martingale came off. If the steward was around, the horse was walked away by the groom & returned sans chain or tacks. I just don't get that. BTW, most of these horses had ear bunnies ,too. However, I do not believe that they were as effective as the doctored cavessons.Or maybe it is the non-testable concoction that they get at night. Vitamins -my foot. BTW- These are some of the TOP horses in the country.

[AHC]

Bravo, pwynn! The point isn't the ear bunnies, it's the rules and the lines that people will cross. It will be interesting to see whether there's a definitive answer on this one from the AHSA or whether they will keep the waters muddy. I expect the latter.
Maybe I'm an exception, but to me, the learning process is part of the fun of horses. And yes, at home we use equipment we wouldn't show in if we need to address a learning or training issue or a habit (I'm talking draw reins or a special bit here, nothing more severe). When there's improvement, we go back to the regular stuff.
I'm a competitive person, so I do have to remind myself that with my young horse and limited budget, it will take longer to get where we want to be, but instead of bemoaning that, I try to enjoy every accomplishment and not obssess too much about the tough days. It would be nice to know that when we do show, everyone is playing by the same rules, and our preparation will make a difference, but unfortunately, we all know better...

[G]

Ok, to whoever said that they would protest a horse that beat them and had earplugs in (I believe it was Devildog), that is PETTY!!!!!! I have nothing against earplugs and the people who use them - why can't you guys be the same way? I don't use them personally, and if a horse beat me who had them in, I wouldn't think "oh, he beat me cause he had earplugs in." NOOOO. I would think "What could I have done to make my performance better, what aspects of that horse did the judge particularly like" etc. Seriously guys... This is rediculous

[ccoronios]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TinyTot:
It sticks cotton in a horses ears will stop them from hearing, why do we still cluck?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOVE IT, TinyTot! Answers, please?

[pwynnnorman]

Answer my question.

[Louise]

I second Pwynn's request.

[Twister]

Pwynn, I think the line is hard to draw, especially when one considers things 'allowed' in one discipline that are not in another. Flash nosebands, running martingales, standing martingales, etc., are all things that vary from discipline to discipline as far as 'legality' goes. I think earplugs are pretty tame, compared to a 'legal' yet severe bit or a set of sharp spurs.
Once again, I think the benifits of earplugs vary from individual to individual. In the original thread,I gave as an example a horse in my care who benifited and, despite devildog's insistence that you can condition a horse to anything, spent ten years being a spook.<g>

[Duffy]

Has anyone noticed how many "poms" are found on the ground all over the show grounds??? There are obviously some horses out there schooling and showing without them that left the stabling area with them on. . .

I'm sure some horses are less frightened by the hissing of the loudspeakers, but I feel that more of them are wearing them for their trainers' and riders' sakes than for their own (per Tiny).

I too feel that there are lots more treacherous waters to be delved into than "ear bunnies", IMO. If they are deemed illegal, I shall not use them, and will make the ruling known to my fellow barnmates. But will I "protest" someone who beats me that is wearing them, PLEASE!!! Give me a break!! If I feel a horse is being abused in some manner, yes, I will protest, (even if it doesn't beat me)!!!! But, with this unharmful cotton. . . .??? And I would feel embarrassed for someone who did protest.

[Black Market Radio]

Keep attacking me folks, it proves mine and Pwynns point...

[This message has been edited by devildog20 (edited 04-17-2000).]

[Jumphigh83]

I was basically trying to illustrate absurdity by being absurd! We NEED artificial appliances to RIDE HORSES. It is just that simple. Without "artificial appliances" we would look preety funny zoaring around the rings (fields, stadia, backyards) wildly out of control! I also was tongue in cheek pointing out how rediculous the AHSA is in making an off the cuff comment like 'Earplugs are not permitted'. What next? No bits, reins, srups, stick, crank nosebands, rubber reins, weighted jumper boots, bell boots, etc etc etc..????? If you have a headache, you take an aspirin (or tylenol, whatever)..if your horse is AFRAID, them put in the freakin' earplugs and GET OVER IT!

[Black Market Radio]

And I STILL wonder why no one has legitamitly answered MY question.

[G]

As someone said... You can't really draw the line, but this is truly absurd. A horse that belongs to a friend of mine (she has had it for 3 years) is off the track and still spooky on some days, despite having been around in the Children's and now doing the juniors. Seriously, you just can't predict this mare some days. I remember arriving to watch them at a show (I ended up being late and missing her division), to find out that my friend's horse had spooked when the heaters in the indoor had turned on. The week before, the mare had turned in a FLAWLESS performance w/o spooks or any mishaps. That's just to prove my point that horses are unpredictable and these harmless devices can be the saving grace on some days. My usually unflappable horse jumped across the ring when he saw the dog rolling on the grass the other day.

Some of you refuse to believe that some horses just SPOOK. No training can fix a horse that is flighty. And as someone else said, in the hunters, especially at the bigger shows, you want your horse focused on his job, calm, and quiet. Even if these earplugs don't really work, have you ever noticed how much a horse will feed off of a rider's nervousness? If the earplugs make the rider feel better, then they will usually ride better and turn in a better trip. That's another point... Seriously, there are many other devices out there that aren't being complained about here. If earplugs are so inconsequential as everyone is saying WHY on EARTH do you CARE???? Can't you guys just focus on your riding and your horse and trying to make your horse the best it can be instead of trying to tear down other people and make an excuse as to why these horses and riders are *bad*? I'm only 13, and I find this sickening

[Black Market Radio]

I never said anyone was "Bad" for using ear plugs did I. BUT, How many times have I been told I am bad for having a different opinion? You still missed my point. Yes, horses can be unpredictable. But guess what, All the other disciplines are doing just fine without them and so I will never get why they are so heavily defended. Do you not think we who ride other disciplines as have spooky horses as well? Can your horses move as easily into dressage as ours can move into hunters? Western Pleasure and trail horses sure seem to make nice hunters, I have seen it many times in my area! If your horses have to have ear plugs then I guess not! And yes, my mare will show Hunters as well. You guys are never going to convince me. I am as firm in my belief as you are in yours, so how about we agree to disagree? Or you can keep attacking me, it shows true charactor.

[Duffy]

OK, I'll bite again. . .Maybe if the hunters were allowed to use the same devices (and it was customary and usual to) as the dressage, etc., then maybe some wouldn't feel the need for ear poms. Hunters are not judged on "submission" (I hate that word). They are allowed some freedom to have that relaxed and huntery look. The horse I show in the hunters has PLENTY of mileage AND training. He's done the QH stuff, jumpers, hunters, equitation, you name it. But he's still a horse, bottom line. If using ear poms can eliminate one injury due to an unpredictable spook, you'd condemn their use??? I'm sorry. . .I just don't understand your attitude on this issue, or what should be an non-issue, IMO.

I'm not attacking anyone - just trying to clarify my opinion. I just didn't realize the sensitivity on this, obviously.

OK - I just read my post and I apologize for the tone in the beginning - definately defensive. I have to say, that I love watching dressage done well (you can go to my posts on the Dressage Forum to see that). I sure advanced level dressage riders use different tack/applicances because of the level of intricacy their movements require. Some of the training, IMO, is the same across the board in the different disciplines and I think that is a good thing. By the same token, the training takes different turns by necessity for the different disciplines. What I'm trying to say, and obviously not doing a very good job, is that different disciplines require different training techniques. I'm not condoning all of them, needless to say. But I'm sure that some are needed that are unique to each discipline.

Ok, I'm stopping now - don't know if I'm helping or hurting here

[This message has been edited by Duffy (edited 04-17-2000).]

[Black Market Radio]

I don't use ANY devices on my mare.

[Ash]

In response to Pwynn's question on where to draw the line is-you can't! This is an all or nothing situation. I view stuffing ears the same as using a martingale or spurs. Devildog, why do dressage people use whips? Do you use them to get your horse to pay attention to your aids, to sharpen them up? I stuff my horse’s ears at a noisy horseshow so she can concentrate on me and what I am asking her to do. I have seen dressage riders/ trainers give a horse a slight flick of the whip to get the horses focus back on them when their mind starts to wonder-how is this different? If hunters can’t use ear plugs, then I guess we can’t use spurs, or carry sticks either. We rely on the rules to tell us what we may and may not use in the show ring, but lets face it-everything is an artificial aid! Unless we ride around with no tack someone, somewhere can accuse of use of using artificial aids or means to control our horses.