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  1. #21
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    I was the starter at a recent show with Linda Andrisani in the box. She asked me to relay to a competitor that the horse was wearing "too much net for my taste" and that protocol would be to request to use it prior to the show. It was the variety that Cella uses. Fortunately for this horse he went just fine without it. I don't recall if he was pinned or not in the warm up class in which he wore the thing but I got the impression that he would not have been if he had continued to use it in subsequent classes.
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  2. #22
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    I am going to put the flame suit on and make a few statements, certainly all just my humble OP.
    I have ridden head shakers. I have watched head shakers from the box. When a head shaker decides to have an issue in front of a jump, it is dangerous. i have seen it. I will not comment on the dressage or eventing world. Or frankly even the jumpers. What happens in the jumper ring stays in the jumper ring.
    I do not want to see a hair net in the hunter ring. Period. It tells me that this horse has a problem. It may not happen with hairnet on in this round, but it may in the next. You are anouncing to me that this horse has a problem. I am sorry that he may be a sweet, nice horse or even a winner. But he is a head shaker. In my op a head shaker cannot be a winner. They are good until they are not. Then it can be dangerous.
    We don't allow boots on a horse, that tells us that there is a problem with interference. When a hairnet is present, it is telling us all that this animal is a head shaker. And yes I can see it. It changes the contour of the nose. Often their tongue is pushing at it and at worse there is a spit ball at the end of it.
    A head shaker to me is an unsoundness. I don't want to ever ride one to the jumpsI don't want to ever judge one, and i sure don't want to try to sell one.. It is also unconventional equipment for the hunter ring. I am sorry if you bought one, or if your great beloved hunter turned into one. But I do not want people riding to jumps on head shakers that are so bad that they need nets. It is about safety.
    Last edited by chunky munky; Jun. 18, 2012 at 11:44 AM.
    www.midatlanticeq.com
    Mid-Atlantic Equitation Festival,Scholarships and College Fair
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunky munky View Post
    I am going to put the flame suit on and make a few statements, certainly all just my humble OP.
    I have ridden head shakers. I have watched head shakers from the box. When a head shaker decides to have an issue in front of a jump, it is dangerous. i have seen it. I will not comment on the dressage or eventing world. Or frankly even the jumpers. What happens in the jumper ring stays in the jumper ring.
    I do not want to see a hair net in the hunter ring. Period. It tells me that this horse has a problem. It may not happen with hairnet on in this round, but it may in the next. You are anouncing to me that this horse has a problem. I am sorry that he may be a sweet, nice horse or even a winner. But he is a head shaker. In my op a head shaker cannot be a winner. They are good until they are not. Then it can be dangerous.
    We don't allow boots on a horse, that tells us that there is a problem with interference. When a hairnet is present, it is telling us all that this animal is a head shaker. And yes I can see it. It changes the contour of the nose. Often their tongue is pushing at it and at worse there is a spit ball at the end of it.
    A head shaker to me is an unsoundness. I don't want to ever ride one, I don't want to ever judge one. It is also unconventional equipment for the hunter ring. I am sorry if you bought one, or if your great hunter turned into one. But I do not want people riding to jumps on head shakers that are so bad that they need nets. It is about safety.
    I can honestly say that I have never ridden a head shaker that has had an issue with the shaking in front of a jump. I've ridden several, and showed one for three years.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heineken View Post
    Hair net really only works on a full cheek
    We must have missed that memo, my hunter wore a hairnet on his big d work bridle every day for about 10 years! Worked just fine. Now that he is retired and the nose nets are cheap, I just switched to that, but a hairnet did the trick for us.

    I rarely used it showing, but for the most part once my horse saw a fence, he laser locked on to it and never so much as flicked a nose. I really only had to worry about the corners and the hack. And since he was the bonafide hack loser, it was only the corners.

    However if we are at a show and it was fall and a bit windy (his worst allergy season) I would leave it on for the red/blue round and see how we did. If I thought that was a nice trip and no score, then for sure it came off since the no score may have been from a judge frowning on the hairnet. If not, and I thought he needed it, I left it on. I would say 95% of the time it came off though. And it was really hard to see. Really. He's actually wearing it in this pic
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    We must have missed that memo, my hunter wore a hairnet on his big d work bridle every day for about 10 years! Worked just fine. Now that he is retired and the nose nets are cheap, I just switched to that, but a hairnet did the trick for us.

    I rarely used it showing, but for the most part once my horse saw a fence, he laser locked on to it and never so much as flicked a nose. I really only had to worry about the corners and the hack. And since he was the bonafide hack loser, it was only the corners.

    However if we are at a show and it was fall and a bit windy (his worst allergy season) I would leave it on for the red/blue round and see how we did. If I thought that was a nice trip and no score, then for sure it came off since the no score may have been from a judge frowning on the hairnet. If not, and I thought he needed it, I left it on. I would say 95% of the time it came off though. And it was really hard to see. Really. He's actually wearing it in this pic
    I guess I am just hairnet impaired, then. And, yes, my experience has been exactly as yours re: locking to the fences and forgetting about the urge to head shake. Mine didn't even do it in the corners.

    Your horse is lovely, by the way.



  6. #26
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    yes, for the most part he was pretty solid in the ring. I'm sure if I stayed in there for longer than 2 minutes it might have been a different story, and it was maybe one show a year where I thought it might be an issue and that was usually the show with the 30 mile and hour gusts blowing across the ring. And for sure he wears it 100% of the time when not in the show ring because there is no point in making a medical issue a behavioral one unless you just like to make work for yourself.

    I just ran one knot over and under the noseband and back through the netting, then set the other knot under the chin, or if it was a larger hair net, poked a hole in the bottom part of the net (by the knot) and ran the chin part/strap of the noseband through that hole before buckling it (like a martingale loop). If it was a medium hairnet (not heavy netting) and you pull it a bit tight it pushes against the trigomenal nerve and also makes it harder to see.

    Thanks - he was a fun horse to show, now he's retired and a fun horse to take on paces and trail rides. And I'm in baby-land, feeling like I take my life in my hands to jump 2'6. Whoo whoo.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by FineAlready View Post
    I can honestly say that I have never ridden a head shaker that has had an issue with the shaking in front of a jump. I've ridden several, and showed one for three years.
    I can tell you that as a judge I have watched way more horses than you have ever ridden in your life time. And I have seen horses fall through jumps due to head shaking. And many more just completely blow the distance for the rider much to their dismay and shock.
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  8. #28
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    Well I will add you to the list of judges that won't score my horse with it on. No big deal, I appreciate the upfront knowledge of your preferences.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunky munky View Post
    I can tell you that as a judge I have watched way more horses than you have ever ridden in your life time. And I have seen horses fall through jumps due to head shaking. And many more just completely blow the distance for the rider much to their dismay and shock.
    Interesting. If I had one that shook to the jumps without the net, then I guess I would either show it with the net (and risk not being scored) or not show it at all. What you are describing sounds like really severe head shaking. My guess would be that it depends a lot on the cause, and I don't think all head shaking stems from the same cause.



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    Well I will add you to the list of judges that won't score my horse with it on. No big deal, I appreciate the upfront knowledge of your preferences.
    For the record when presented with a horse with an obvious net at a recognized show i usually call the steward to let the exhibitor know my feelings about the equipment. Then they have the option of taking it off, not showing in front of me, or just not caring and leave it on.
    Frankly I see few at recognized shows. I see more at unrecognized shows. Most at recognized shows are paying enough to show that they don't want the risk of not being judged and take it off before they enter the ring.
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  11. #31
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    Yes...but Don Stewart had a very nice junior hunter recently that wore a hairnet, and Laura Kraut's junior horse (Back in the day...lol) wore one as well. They both won a ton, but occasionally didnt get scored. Like I said I like knowing upfront where I stand with it. The horse I have now isnt showing anymore (kid to college) so it is a non issue.
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  12. #32
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    It would be nice for exhibitors if there was a guideline/rule about it. Unfortunately there is not, and we are left to our own judgement on the matter.
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  13. #33
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    I've never had an issue with any judge that considers it a problem. If nothing else you could make an argument that the hairnet can act similar to a flash attachment, which is certainly prohibited.

    I don't think I used that hairnet in the ring more than a handful of times, and most of those were in the early days of the onset of his head shaking. The show the attached pic came from I actually forgot I had it on the horse. Usually if it was a windy day I would warm up with it and maybe leave it on for the red/blue round and take it off unless I really thought it was going to be an issue. I think I had it on, didn't really need it, forgot about it and clocked around my classes with a bit of success (think I was champion at that show).

    Mroades, in case you didn't already have it on your list, I'm pretty sure you can add Sue Ashe to the "doesn't approve of hairnets" list!
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  14. #34
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    Chunky munky, I am a little confused. And please know I am questioning this with respect. What I am understanding you say is that you would rather see a horse without the net even if that is helpful to the horse by telling the steward/rider and risk them having a possible missed distance or have them go through a fence. If you have seen such bad things, and I'm not questioning that, why would you prefer them to take it off? I can understand you saying you won't place them high. That's fine since you are a subjective judge. We all risk that when we enter the hunter classes. But I think by telling them ahead of time almost sets the rider up for failure/possible danger. Again, I am not being disrespectful. I have a head shaker, but only show jumpers. I personally don't use a net, but will consider trying it.
    “Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.”
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mroades View Post
    Yes...but Don Stewart had a very nice junior hunter recently that wore a hairnet, and Laura Kraut's junior horse (Back in the day...lol) wore one as well. They both won a ton, but occasionally didnt get scored. Like I said I like knowing upfront where I stand with it. The horse I have now isnt showing anymore (kid to college) so it is a non issue.
    I noticed that in this year's VHSA yearbook (for those of you who don't know, the yearbook lists year-end awards in all Regular and Associate hunter and jumper divisions with a photo of the winner) that one of the champion ponies displayed a nose net in its jumping photo. Obviously the net didn't prevent the pony from winning enough to take home the end of year championship.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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  16. #36
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    DMK, I rode with Sue for my junior career, and have sat with her to judge...this I know!!!
    "You can't really debate with someone who has a prescient invisible friend"
    carolprudm



  17. #37
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    I have a horse that showed with me in the a/os when I rode with Don and we went with a hair net all spring and summer I learned when I turned pro and had the same horse leased to a children's kid to all ways ask the steward to see what the judge says. Some say no some say ok and I had one say if the horse had the same trip as another without net that horse would pin higher. Bottom line at a rated show you ask the steward.



  18. #38
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    Default DMK:

    I think we owned the same model!!!!!! You described my Lego to a "T". And, when I left Wisconsin and moved out East his allergies changed and mostly the shaking went away.
    Can you stress-fracture your brain?



  19. #39
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    Maybe its because I'm tired, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how one secures the hairnet on the nose...

    does it just hang there? or is it strapped all the way around the muzzle?

    Anyone have an up close pic?

    Also, how does it work like a nose net if the material is so different, i.e., bigger "holes?"
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  20. #40
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    I have an OTTB with some allergies who has been pretty sensitive to bugs this season (this is my first full summer with him). He does best in an ear bonnet, but at our last show (we went with SWAT and lots of bug spray since we couldn't wear the bonnet), he was an awful head shaker - except for in the ring. A nose net would probably be beneficial. He only does it on the grass which is why I know it's related to allergies/bugs and this whole conversation has had me intrigued.

    As much as I want to use one - and probably will if we really need it (we primarily do combined tests/event so the whole hunter round thing isn't as big of a deal for us), I do sort of see the judges' point: where do you draw the line: nose nets, ear bonnets, ear poms, splint boots/wraps?

    I personally don't think it's that big of an issue. I don't think a horse/rider should be penalized for needing something to help an issue (ie: allergies) that a horse/rider can't control. Someone mentioned that an issue like that - since it leads to head-shaking - is basically unsoundness. But if it can be "fixed" by a simple net/bonnet/whatever - is that really unsoundness? Do you deny an otherwise healthy horse a productive, happy career/job because of it? My gelding LOVES to jump. But these bugs and the allergies make jumping in a field distracting. He is much, much happier with his bonnet on, hopping over fences, then he is with nothing to do (he gets a bit bored - that's when trouble starts!).



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