[mbm]

Many of you know I have been agonizing for 2 years over breeding my mare - should I? if yes, to who? Connemema? GRP? Small WB ?

So, I am happy to report after some hard core flip flopping (lol!) Sophie was sent to the breeding station on Sunday, vet reported on Monday that she had two huge folicles and she was bred yesterday. Vet reports she did ovulate twice, so at 15 days we will see if both are still vialble etc.

I am so excited i almost can't breathe and i finally get why folks do this!!

so.... the lucky boy was Manchester City - a young GRP owned by Crosiadore Farm

I had made several well thought out choices, but somehow changed my mind at the last minute and i feel really good about this - and the timing was excellent on all sides - it was meant to be for sure.

Vet reported great semen quality too

15 days and we scan.

< i am so excited i can't stand it!!! >

[JB]

What a nice boy!!! I giggle at them calling those guys "dun"

Who's your mare?

[Blume Farm]

Great choice!!

fingers crossed for a good report in 15 days

[mbm]

my mare is by Wolkentanz I / Sir Ivorson xx

you can see pics here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3&l=95b741f3b4

pedigree

[mbm]

JB - why is he not a "dun" ?

[gabby.gator]

if you are anything like me, you will barely sleep the night before the scan!!

and THEN it's like half holding your breath for 11 months! :-)

here's hoping for a black dot for you, and enjoy the wait, LOL

[JB]

my mare is by Wolkentanz I / Sir Ivorson xx

you can see pics here https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3&l=95b741f3b4

pedigree

Ok, that's going to be a flippin' fantastic foal!!

JB - why is he not a "dun" ?

because he's buckskin LOL They just do that, have done that forever, called buckskins "dun" Maybe you'll get a buckskin or smoky brown yourself

[mbm]

well i think i have an even chance of buckskin or bay (like 33% chance each?) then a smaller chance of palomino or black or smoky black

[JB]

So much depends on other factors, like whether either mare or stallion are homozygous for black, whether your mare is homozygous for brown (she's obviously brown, therefore has no bay in her), and whether the stallion is homozgyous for bay, has 1 copy of bay and brown, or only has 1 bay LOL

50/50 shot at a dilute any way you look at it. How the breakdown within each dilute/non dilute comes out depends on the above

[mbm]

stallion's sire is a palomino , dam is a bay

my mare's dam is bay and sire is chestnut.

when i put all that into the color thingy the results are what i posted

my mare has black points a black mane and tail altho a brown muzzle. her papers say dark bay.

i do not know what a "dilute" is.

[JB]

Ok, so the stallion is heterozygous black, but we don't know his Agouti status.

This means he's Ee for black, but Agouti can be AA, AAt, or Aa.

Your mare is also hetero black - Ee. But, we don't know if she's AtAt (homozygous brown) or Ata.

I believe you her papers say "dark bay", but I guarantee you she's brown

[mbm]

Looking at her mum, she is hard to tell if she is black or dark brown or dark bay....

[JB]

if you can't tell if she's black/dark brown/dark bay, nearly guaranteed it's brown - dark seal brown

Pet DNA Services of AZ is the only place that tests for brown, so you'd have to send mane hair to them.

If she ended up being AtAt - homozygous for brown, then that means she cannot have a black or smoky black foal.

But with the stallion's Agouti status unknown, you're still open for bay, brown, buckskin, and smoky brown.

The only thing we DO know for sure is 12.5% chance for each of chestnut and palomino

[mbm]

its not really that important to me - i really want a bay but buckskin would be great as would anything else - i didn't want a grey and i think that i can be pretty confident about

it's funny - i never really ever thought about what color my mare is.... but she doesn't really look like a bay - when she isn't bleached she is dark - almost black... are there browns in other breeds besides TBs?

[mbm]

btw i think it is hilarious that i want a bay and i cant get it lol! figures

i guess i should say : the color my mare is - that is what i want ha!

[Kryswyn]

First off, I wish you the very best of luck with your foal, whatever color it turns out to be.

The second thing is that you now have 11 months to learn all the stuff you should know before you become a breeder. Good luck with that too. Seems like not really knowing what color your mare is might be one of them, especially if you're trying to breed for color.

In the past it was 'okay' to breed without knowledge (I am NOT saying you're unknowledgeable about horses) and hope for the best, but now with so many excess horses, breeders, especially small breeders are being held to higher standards for bringing better quality stock into the world. I don't know what your plans are for this baby. Maybe it will never leave your ownership. But if this baby is going to go on the market, I hope it will have more going for it than color (although unusual colors do generally sell well), like TEMPERAMENT, CONFORMATION, and MOVEMENT. The sire and dam seem like nice individuals so your chances are good there. But if you are going to breed you owe it to the horse world to ask yourself is my mare SO GOOD that she deserves to pass on her genes? I'm sure you think so but do other knowledgeable people agree.

Anyway, this is probably moot since the deed is done and I DO wish you and your mare only the best. I'm off now to Facebook to help share out the lovely excess horses that have landed in the #10 kill pen at Camelot who face slaughter if we can't find homes for them. I'm sure their breeders had high hopes for them too.

[JB]

its not really that important to me - i really want a bay but buckskin would be great as would anything else - i didn't want a grey and i think that i can be pretty confident about

LOL, yep, no chance of gray here!

it's funny - i never really ever thought about what color my mare is.... but she doesn't really look like a bay - when she isn't bleached she is dark - almost black... are there browns in other breeds besides TBs?

Brown is *everywhere* Ok, not Freisians

btw i think it is hilarious that i want a bay and i cant get it lol! figures

Oh but you CAN still get bay! The stallion absolutely looks buckskin, as opposed to smoky black (cream on bay and not cream on brown).

Bay is dominant over brown, which is why I said your mare must be AtAt or Ata. At denotes brown, A is bay, and a is "not present". So, the stallion is either:
- AA homozygous for bay, turning your other 75% into 37.5% bay and 37.5% buckskin
- AAt hetero for bay, hetero for brown, turning that 75% into 18.75% chance each of bay, brown, buckskin, or brown, depending on the mare's status of course)
- Aa hetero for bay, making that 75% Aa AAt Ata aa 18.75% chance bay, 18.75 buckskin, 12.5% each of brown, smoky brown, black, smoky black. Wait, I think I missed a % somewhere. Crap. Well, you get my drift!

i guess i should say : the color my mare is - that is what i want ha![/QUOTE]

[JB]

First off, I wish you the very best of luck with your foal, whatever color it turns out to be.

The second thing is that you now have 11 months to learn all the stuff you should know before you become a breeder. Good luck with that too. Seems like not really knowing what color your mare is might be one of them, especially if you're trying to breed for color.

In the past it was 'okay' to breed without knowledge (I am NOT saying you're unknowledgeable about horses) and hope for the best, but now with so many excess horses, breeders, especially small breeders are being held to higher standards for bringing better quality stock into the world. I don't know what your plans are for this baby. Maybe it will never leave your ownership. But if this baby is going to go on the market, I hope it will have more going for it than color (although unusual colors do generally sell well), like TEMPERAMENT, CONFORMATION, and MOVEMENT. The sire and dam seem like nice individuals so your chances are good there. But if you are going to breed you owe it to the horse world to ask yourself is my mare SO GOOD that she deserves to pass on her genes? I'm sure you think so but do other knowledgeable people agree.

Anyway, this is probably moot since the deed is done and I DO wish you and your mare only the best. I'm off now to Facebook to help share out the lovely excess horses that have landed in the #10 kill pen at Camelot who face slaughter if we can't find homes for them. I'm sure their breeders had high hopes for them too.

Ummm, really?? Was that REALLY necessary?

And why does it seem SO important to you that mbm doesn't know brown vs bay or what colors this foal has a chance of being? Man, it used to be that people were blasted for being excited about getting TO chose the color, or choosing a stallion (largely) based on color, and now it's a problem she isn't certain whether her mare is "dark bay" or brown? Isn't it a BIGGER problem that *professional* registries don't know the difference?

Maybe I'm reading your reply all wrong, but I don't think so.

[honeylips]

The Germans only have one word for the type of color from the sire (who is buckskin not dun) - Falbe. It encompasses what we call buckskin and dun lumped together into 1 term.They (in Germany) don't distinguish (give different words) between the 2 colors.

Falbe can be buckskin or a dark dun as a "generic" color term (like chestnut or bay can mean anything from liver chestnut to regular chestnut. Bay can encompass anything from red bay, mahogany bay, black bay etc)

Fuchsfalbe is red dun
Mausfalbe is black or brown dun
Dunkelfalbe is dark buckskin
Hellfalbe is light buckskin

[goodpony]

CONGRATULATIONS--I happen to really really like MC--super moving and super looking pony! I really really wanted to use him on my mare who is buckskin--but did not want chance a cremello foal.

I think your mare may be dark brown--wonder what your chances are of smutty buckskin.