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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2012
    Posts
    45

    Default breeding haflinger mare to sportpony or sporthorse?

    I would like some opinions on my situation. I'm looking at potentially breeding my haflinger mare to a sport pony or sport horse for an eventing mount. My mare is 9 and has never had a foal. She is about 14.2hh and the typical haflinger color. Here's a conformation shot of her:
    http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...05095396_n.jpg

    What I want from the foal is a foal that is a potential eventing or dressage prospect. I'm leaning more towards eventing than dressage. My mare is very bold, smart and sensitive. I've never had a connection like this with a horse. I think, she does. I know I might not get that out of the foal, but I feel like it would be hard to pick a horse for sale with this quality as well, so I'm ok with that.

    Her biggest flaw in my opinion, is that she isn't very naturally uphill. So, I would like to breed her to something that has natural uphill build and movement. Also I want to be sure to breed her to a stallion that is well balanced. She is a bit heavy in the front, so I wouldn't want to pick a stallion that was too unbalanced towards the front end.

    I've poked around looking at pony stallions - mainly connemara's and german riding ponies. I rather like Belafonte d'Avalon so far. But a lot of the ponies don't have an uphill build. I have considered sporthorse stallions, but I am having trouble finding sporthorse stallions around 15hh or so. Most are close to or over 17hh - which I don't want. I've been told the mares body won't let the foal get too big, but I don't want to risk it. And I don't want a 17hh horse - I would like the foal to be between 14 - 15hh at maturity.

    So... does anyone have recommendations for an uphill sport pony stallion, or short uphill sporthorse stallion? Breed doesn't matter too much to me.

    Thanks in advance and sorry for the length



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Sunshine State
    Posts
    2,215

    Default

    How about this guy? He's only available frozen (he's in Europe) but by the dose, he's really inexpensive. I believe he's $250 per dose. He is 14.2 and has produced dressage and jumping foals including some Bundeschampionats participants.


    Mandingo


    If I was looking for a small sport horse he'd be on my list to consider!

    I also worked with this guy in my youth and he was quite nice... Not sure whether he is still alive, although they still list him at stud. He's an arabian but he was also ATA licensed. He was SO easy to work with - an intact stallion that was just easy as anything to handle and ride.
    However he jumped well enough to get approved, but I don't know that it was ever really his calling. He's produced lots of dressage horses but I can't think of a single baby that is jumping anything of significance. Probably fine if your goals are for a BN/N horse, but if you want more, maybe not.

    Al-Marah Quebec
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2012
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Thanks JWB! I do like Mandingo... will definitely keep him on my list. I would like to go as far as possible in eventing, but I'm not an experienced eventer - more experienced in dressage. But would like the foal to have as much potential as possible

    I also hadn't come across Superior Equine Sires - will do some more poking around on there. I would prefer frozen over cooled - seems easier to work with. But I could be wrong, I'm by no means a seasoned breeder. Where I board they have used frozen and cooled. I didn't think to ask the other day but she didn't mention one being better than the other. Will do some reading up on that as well.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2005
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    787

    Default

    What a cute mare.

    I would LOVE to have something a little more substantail (like your mare) and breed to Top Cat http://www.mortonstables.com/ I have a video from that breeding farm as I was interested in breeding one of their mediums to a small horse (I ended up going with a section C from another farm) But I fell in love with the vid of Top Cat!! Moves very much like a warmblood.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fillytracks View Post
    Thanks JWB! I do like Mandingo... will definitely keep him on my list. I would like to go as far as possible in eventing, but I'm not an experienced eventer - more experienced in dressage. But would like the foal to have as much potential as possible

    I also hadn't come across Superior Equine Sires - will do some more poking around on there. I would prefer frozen over cooled - seems easier to work with. But I could be wrong, I'm by no means a seasoned breeder. Where I board they have used frozen and cooled. I didn't think to ask the other day but she didn't mention one being better than the other. Will do some reading up on that as well.
    Cooled would be more "ideal" for you to use on a 9yr old maiden mare.

    This stallion isn't huge
    http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stalli...weiss_ggf.html

    This boy I have seen in person and is very nice
    http://www.germanridingpony.com/burberry.html
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    16,877

    Default

    There's also a TB that looks pretty neat that is smallish...who is it?

    Ah--Cor Magnifique. He's only 15.2, and he is eventing. The pedigree is very interesting.

    http://www.teamwallace.org/stallion



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 22, 2006
    Posts
    2,138

    Default

    The reason you aren't finding WB stallions smaller is they aren't out there I think some registries will not liscense them if they are under 15.3. I would def be looking at some Connemaras because they will refine your mare.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2009
    Location
    Thurmond, NC
    Posts
    435

    Default Haflinger's rock!

    Your mare is SO cute! We were in exactly the same situation 3 years ago. We have a 13.2h Haflinger mare, Pazia
    http://witsendeventing.com/Breeding/pazia.html
    that LOVES to jump and we wanted to breed her to a sport pony to get an event pony. We ended up settling on Voyager
    http://www.breeding-stallions.com/photos745.html
    and now have a 2yo gelding Valliant Voyager
    http://witsendeventing.com/Foals/Valiant_Voyager.html
    Val is definitely more refined than his mom, has nicer gaits and also appears to love jumping. We haven't free jumped him yet because of his age but he will regularly jump things in his paddock when playing or the fence if so inclined . We would definitely breed back to Voyager although I'm not sure if you can get Voyager in the US any more.

    Last year we bred Pazia to Ridley
    http://www.fair-windsfarm.com/Ridley.html
    We are very pleased with Renegade. I don't have any pictures of him on our web page yet but you can see him on our facebook page (below). Harder to tell exactly how he is going to turn out since he is only a few weeks old. He was a bit more uphill at birth than his 1/2 brother, has a very nice trot and canter. Chris Rush (Ridley's owner) was great to work with.

    Best of luck!
    Dale and "A"



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 1, 2007
    Location
    Gettysburg, PA
    Posts
    2,636

    Default

    Hey FT I second Ridley - I've liked what he has produced.

    Also Popeye Hilltop is great to work with http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stallion_popeye.html
    Epona Farm
    Irish Draughts and Irish Sport horses

    Join us on Facebook



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2005
    Location
    ON, Canada
    Posts
    402

    Default

    There is someone local to me who bred their haffie mare to a Popeye K son twice. The older filly competed on the line as a 2 and three year old with rather respectable results. Last year she showed on the provincial circuit and qualified for the championships in the hack division. She is about 16 hh and very solid!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    Small WB stallion -- http://www.chadalefarms.com/breeding.html I don't know whether they are still standing him or not. He is right about 15.2 hh (I have seen him numerous times when he was in Florida). I have a mare by him. Her dam was 15.2 hh and she is right at 15.2 hh.

    As far as sportpony stallions, these are the ones I personally like quite a bit:

    Belfonte and Burberry who were already mentioned and .....

    FS Daily Hero http://foxcreekfarm.com/horse/Daily%20Hero. He is the sire of my 2 year old sportpony stallion prospect.

    Chicco B http://foxcreekfarm.com/horse/Chicco-B They don't have any jumping photos of him on the site (at least not that I saw) but trust me this pony can jump !!! I saw him at the ISR/Oldenburg stallion approval and he outjumped all the horse stallions. Love him

    Good luck.
    Richard, Approved Black KWPN Stallion
    Website
    and Facebook page
    Oh Kaptain Underpants SFS, Approved BRp pony stallion
    Website and Facebook page



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2012
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Thanks Aven - I will pass your compliment onto Annie! I do like the looks of Top Cat but had trouble finding any video. Do you know if any is available online?

    This stallion isn't huge
    http://www.hilltopfarminc.com/stalli...weiss_ggf.html

    This boy I have seen in person and is very nice
    http://www.germanridingpony.com/burberry.html
    I like Donarweiss - his stud fee is on the high end from what I've seen so far. But hard to put a price on something like this, so will keep an eye out for a discount or a breeding to him on an auction or something. He is gorgeous.

    I really like Burberry... He is cute and I like his build. These guys are both on my list now, thanks Nootka!

    Ah--Cor Magnifique. He's only 15.2, and he is eventing. The pedigree is very interesting.
    I'm not too sure of a TB cross... Not that TB's aren't good, just not a fan of them. I don't feel I liked this guy as well as some of the others listed, so he wouldn't make my list for my haflinger. Thank you for the suggestion though Simkie

    The reason you aren't finding WB stallions smaller is they aren't out there I think some registries will not liscense them if they are under 15.3. I would def be looking at some Connemaras because they will refine your mare.
    I was not aware there was a height limit on WB's... Very good to know. I have looked at some connemaras - but most of them are a bit longer in the back than I like and I feel like a lot of them are not very naturally uphill. I feel I really need a stallion naturally uphill for my mare, since she isn't so naturally uphill herself.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2012
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Wits End Eventing - thanks soo much for the info! Nice to see photos and video of some haflinger crosses... There aren't many out there! I saw the photos of Renegade on your FB page - how cute! Will be sure to look forward for more updated photos of him and Valliant Voyager! I really like Ridley... He is definitely on the list, haha. And thank you for the compliments on Annie!

    horsetales... Funny seeing you here I rather like Ridley... Glad you put a vote in for him. Like some of the others over Popeye... Thanks for the suggestions

    The Bandit - thanks for the additional info on Popeye... He just isn't doing it for me though... Will look more at what he produces. Always more research to be done, haha

    sfstable - I like Icarus a lot! I think I would prefer Daily Hero over Chicco B... Thanks!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,072

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fillytracks View Post

    I really like Burberry... He is cute and I like his build. These guys are both on my list now, thanks Nootka!

    .
    Your welcome! I just want to add that I have delt with Burberry's owner and she is a very nice person.
    Last edited by Nootka; Jun. 13, 2012 at 10:43 PM.
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  15. #15
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2012
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    383

    Default

    You won't find small stallions approved with registries unless they're approved as ponies because, as someone else noted, registries have size restrictions on the stallions they approve.

    I don't know too much about sport ponies, so I won't be much here. My favorite ponies I've ever seen were all spectacular, uphill movers by Forest Flame. I don't know where he stands and have a hard time finding any info about him online. But anytime I google search for him, I always find lots of lovely uphill ponies and small horses. May be one to google?

    Stallion I suggest is Pablo or Pablito at Rainbow Equus Meadows. I've seen several offspring by both, and the dams of a few of them. The "stamp" of both stallions (from the offspring I've seen) seems to be uphill movement. And I agree with fillytracks that the main thing to consider when looking for a stallion for this particular mare is that he sires uphill moving horses. They are both lovely movers and superb, bold jumpers. I don't think they throw size. The horses I've seen were 15.3-16.1 and were about the same height as their dams. The only negative to these boys (from the horses I've seen), the offspring were a bit hot. Not super super hot, needing hours of lunging sorts. But definitely forward, aware of their surroundings, sensitive sorts. But I also know for a fact a few of the mares these horses were out of were hot, sensitive girls. So out of a very steady, calm mare you may not get such a sensitive ride? If any of the Rain. Equus. horses interest you, I would suggest sending them an e-mail. They're a big enough stallion station they they likely have sent semen out to a few Haflinger mares and may have a decent idea of what to expect with the crosses.

    I would not personally consider any of the "hunter" stallions. They're just not uphill enough for this mare - IMO. I would probably lean towards nice, loose relaxed moving jumper stallions.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2012
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    383

    Default

    I would also have a vet do a repro exam on her and discuss frozen vs. fresh semen with them. Maiden mares are typically a little harder to get in foal, so you may only want to consider fresh. But if you meet with a good vet and after examining her they are fairly confident in their ability to get her pregnant with frozen, then your options become almost limitless!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2007
    Posts
    49

    Default

    Ridley is approved as a Horse Stallion with ISR/Oldenburg NA. He is currently showing Intermediare and last weekend had 2 first place rides with a 70 and a 65 for his scores. Ridley also has a fabulous jump as do his babies.

    Chris Rush
    Fair Winds Farm
    www.fair-windsfarm.com



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    13,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fillytracks View Post
    Thanks JWB! I do like Mandingo... will definitely keep him on my list. I would like to go as far as possible in eventing, but I'm not an experienced eventer - more experienced in dressage. But would like the foal to have as much potential as possible

    I also hadn't come across Superior Equine Sires - will do some more poking around on there. I would prefer frozen over cooled - seems easier to work with. But I could be wrong, I'm by no means a seasoned breeder. Where I board they have used frozen and cooled. I didn't think to ask the other day but she didn't mention one being better than the other. Will do some reading up on that as well.
    Frozen requires an experienced repro person, timing and thawing protocols are crucial to success. Ask your vet about his success rate using fresh and frozen. Failures are expensive
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2012
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Stallion I suggest is Pablo or Pablito at Rainbow Equus Meadows. I've seen several offspring by both, and the dams of a few of them. The "stamp" of both stallions (from the offspring I've seen) seems to be uphill movement. And I agree with fillytracks that the main thing to consider when looking for a stallion for this particular mare is that he sires uphill moving horses. They are both lovely movers and superb, bold jumpers. I don't think they throw size. The horses I've seen were 15.3-16.1 and were about the same height as their dams. The only negative to these boys (from the horses I've seen), the offspring were a bit hot. Not super super hot, needing hours of lunging sorts. But definitely forward, aware of their surroundings, sensitive sorts. But I also know for a fact a few of the mares these horses were out of were hot, sensitive girls. So out of a very steady, calm mare you may not get such a sensitive ride? If any of the Rain. Equus. horses interest you, I would suggest sending them an e-mail. They're a big enough stallion station they they likely have sent semen out to a few Haflinger mares and may have a decent idea of what to expect with the crosses.
    I would also have a vet do a repro exam on her and discuss frozen vs. fresh semen with them. Maiden mares are typically a little harder to get in foal, so you may only want to consider fresh. But if you meet with a good vet and after examining her they are fairly confident in their ability to get her pregnant with frozen, then your options become almost limitless!
    Thank you Twisted River! I like Pablo... Will have to watch the video of Pablito on a PC when I find one to borrow for a bit. Yes, uphill movement is a must! I will be sure to discuss all of this with the vet... Luckily our vet specializes in breeding and I am very confident in them. I haven't discussed this with them yet, but will absolutely be asking them lots of questions

    My mare's heat cycles are very obvious, especially in the spring time, then she gets more mellow into summer. Not sure if that has any correlation with anything or gives any indication of how easy she will be to get pregnant.

    Ridley is approved as a Horse Stallion with ISR/Oldenburg NA. He is currently showing Intermediare and last weekend had 2 first place rides with a 70 and a 65 for his scores. Ridley also has a fabulous jump as do his babies.
    Congratulations on the success last weekend! I keep watching Ridley's video, along with a few others... This will be such a hard decision!

    Frozen requires an experienced repro person, timing and thawing protocols are crucial to success. Ask your vet about his success rate using fresh and frozen. Failures are expensive
    Thanks carolprudm - will be sure to discuss all of this with my vet. Lots to learn for me here!



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    35,879

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    I'd definitely consider Belafonte d'Avalon!
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