[jaimebaker]

Of course I posted the minute I heard about it. Apparently the trailer sort of, caved in, in the center. So it wasn't overturned, the trailer collapsed. Wonder if it was weight. I saw horses in the news footage and some were skin and bones...not 'worthy' of slaughter if you get my drift. I understand the guy isn't doing anything illegal but geez, can he not take a SIGN when this same crap happens twice in the last 6 months? This guy is fairly well known in the area. My farrier knows him and said the minute he saw the first wreck on the news he knew who it was and knew where they were headed. The first wreck a few months back the guy dodged questions and lied through his teeth where those horses were headed. Those that knew the guy knew EXACTLY the fate of those horses. I'm not for or against slaughter but I am against these horses travel accommodations. Some good looking horses in that stock too. Such a shame.

[Tamara in TN]

Our local waste management will no longer provide their huge dumpsters for manure removal because it literally destroyed them.


Anyhow. Three Angels DOT records in this link. Compared to the national average, I find his record very concerning.


For the February incident:

Review Information

Review Date:02/23/2012
Type:Compliance Review

Rating Date:05/05/2012
Rating:Unsatisfactory

If there are no consequences for being in violation why bother?

actually this page will help decipher the other page
http://safersys.org/saferhelp.aspx#Inspections

as far as inspection numbers these are totals of all the variables being added together...so the higher the number the more stringent the inspections not the more total number of inspections

we have been put OOS twice...once for a faulty rear air bag and again for a short in the running lights

both times we got to go home (it was Middle Tn runs as we don't travel any more over 300 miles) and both times we were/are given the papers with the problems to fix

and then our mechanic signs off on what he has fixed (not all places have their own mechanic but we do,other places would have to have a dealership do this)

that paper turned in w/in <x> days gives the state a record of the fix and you are back in service as soon as the thing is fixed

can we lie? sure....but then the second time all hell will break loose with the DOT...

Tamara

[Moderator 1]

We merged a few threads on this topic to keep the info together.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[Liberty]

Vets should be made aware of who he is, and euthanize any horse with so much as a scratch, because then Ayache wouldn't get paid for those horses, and might even have to pay the vet for euthanizing them.

I agree.

The one that was euthed was the lucky one of the bunch.

Don't truckers have to have a bill of lading (or something like that) that states the load destination? The fact that this slaughter dealer outright lied about where those horses were going in the wreck earlier this year has me wondering how he got away with it.

[Plainandtall]

His lie was clearly exposed when he said that the injured horses (from the earlier wreck) were going to OK... but wound up being rejected because of their injuries at the Mexico border.

[Derid]

Local news is reporting the surviving horses were returned to "3 Angels." If its like the last time they'll be on the road to TX within 24 hours of the accident. Shameful....

[Louise]

The law says that people are free to take horse to slaughter. I don't like it, but that's just me.

Here's what worries me regarding this particular operation. There appears to be the possibility that they are operating under unsafe conditions. A driver that falls asleep, and a trailer that may, and I repeat, may, have been maintained improperly point to that possibility. That may cause peril to the horses, the drivers and the unknowing public.

An airline faces strict regulations regarding the safety of their planes. And, they face even stricter fines and punishments if they fail to live up to those regulations. There are also regulations that those who transport goods must live under, and fines, or worse, if they don't. I worked in the transportation industry. I know several trucking companies who faced the consequences of not living up to those regulations.

I would hope that, given these two incidents, this Three Angels place would be forced to undergo a thorough scrutiny and appropriate fines or harsher punishment, if it proves that their vehicles, and their internal rules, do not meet the particular laws that they are required to function under. Because, if they are not meeting those standards or are knowingly hiring people who are not meeting those standards, they are not only putting the horses in jeopardy, they are putting the public in danger.

[Plainandtall]

Yes Louise- There isn't anything inherently illegal about what Three Angels routinely does... except that there is A LOT of what they are doing that is illegal.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/16568210/h...-abused-horses

[Louise]

Well, there would almost have to be. If you're making a run of that distance, and following all of the rules and regulations of the Federal government, and the States that you're passing through; if your vehicles are properly maintained, and your drivers are properly licensed and following the down time regulations incurred; then, if you're only getting $11,000 before expenses for your cargo (and I know that's a cold term for living creatures) I don't see how you're able to turn any kind of a profit.

That's why I hope that they are thoroughly investigated, and, fined, jailed or shut down, if the circumstances are there to do so.

[Tamara in TN]

Well, there would almost have to be. If you're making a run of that distance, and following all of the rules and regulations of the Federal government, and the States that you're passing through; if your vehicles are properly maintained, and your drivers are properly licensed and following the down time regulations incurred; then, if you're only getting $11,000 before expenses for your cargo (and I know that's a cold term for living creatures) I don't see how you're able to turn any kind of a profit.

That's why I hope that they are thoroughly investigated, and, fined, jailed or shut down, if the circumstances are there to do so.

you make a very salient point...hauling horses to the border at their very low sales price only pays the gas down there...you must have a return cargo (known as a back haul) to make any money...so you are just trying to get to the border to turn around and get something else to bring out...all last year cattle were hauled out by the tens of thousands to Neb and the mid plains states

now an issue could be made if he is running "farm tags" and not "semi tags"....

while we as farmers have to keep the same BS log books and vehicle inspections the requirements for the drivers are lowered (though we have learned to keep full requirements on everyone)


AND you are exempt from a lot of taxes and harassment IF you are hauling your own cargo under 300 miles....but only your cargo and only in that window....all the states surrounding us have the same agreements with TN as far as these tags go....

so a farm tag does not let me go to TX my cargo or not and a farm tag does not let me back haul a load of cattle to Neb and then come home to TN

Tamara

[Louise]

so a farm tag does not let me go to TX my cargo or not and a farm tag does not let me back haul a load of cattle to Neb and then come home to TN

Tamara

Yes, if they are getting any kind of a backhaul, that is something that has to be added into the equation. I wonder how much a load of cattle brings, but I'm too lazy to look it up so I guess it will have to remain a mystery.

Thanks for the information about farm tags. Being from the world of commercial hauling, I am not familiar with the differing regulations for farms. Heck, I've been out of the industry for 2.5 years, so regulation could very well be very different now than when I was working.

But, the dollars and cents ought to have remained fairly consistent. So, I would hope that the appropriate agencies would be looking at this operation very closely, to see what, if any, regulations are being ignored.

[Bluey]

Sometimes, an accident is that, an accident, just like any other accident.

Now, you say that company had more than one accident?
How many trucks do they manage, how many is "too many, they have an unsafe record"?

You don't know, unless you know the numbers.
If they have several trucks a day on the road and two accidents a year, how does that compare with having two trucks a month on the road and ten accidents?

The DOT knows what they are doing and I am sure they are keeping an eye on them, as they are everyone else in trucking.
I would say, let them make the call there, because we just don't know.

[Tamara in TN]

Yes, if they are getting any kind of a backhaul, that is something that has to be added into the equation. I wonder how much a load of cattle brings, but I'm too lazy to look it up so I guess it will have to remain a mystery.

.

cattle hauls are paid for by the mile like anything else....freight is freight and diesel is diesel as you already know


while there are some undercutters on things like uship, the per mile is about the same

Tamara

[luvmytbs]

Now, you say that company had more than one accident?
How many trucks do they manage, how many is "too many, they have an unsafe record"?

Three Angels has three power units (trucks).

Over the last 24 months they were inspected 24 times for on-road performance.

21 out of the 24 inspections ended in vehicle maintenance violations.

The total violations in those 21 failed added up to 64 violations, giving them a fail rate of 96.3%

LINK to source.

Some highlites from their violations:

2 x Frame cracked/loose/sagging/broken

2 x Wheel cracked or broken

1 x Leafspring defective/missing

6 x Tire - ply or belt material exposed

Several of those 64 violations were OOS; which if you review their records, they did not comply with.

Also, according to the above link, they had an accident in October of 2011 with injuries.

For fatique driving (hours of service) they have a fail rate of 97.4%

[Bluey]

Three Angels has three power units (trucks).

Over the last 24 months they were inspected 24 times for on-road performance.

21 out of the 24 inspections ended in vehicle maintenance violations.

The total violations in those 21 failed added up to 64 violations, giving them a fail rate of 96.3%

LINK to source.

Some highlites from their violations:

2 x Frame cracked/loose/sagging/broken

2 x Wheel cracked or broken

1 x Leafspring defective/missing

6 x Tire - ply or belt material exposed

Several of those 64 violations were OOS; which if you review their records, they did not comply with.

Also, according to the above link, they had an accident in October of 2010 with injuries.

For fatique driving (hours of service) they have a fail rate of 97.4%

And how does that compare with inspections of other firm's trailers?

Aha, you still don't know, because you are looking to hang them only.

A friend has some trucks and the inspectors find something regularly.
Why?
The inspectors have some 500+ points to check and there is no heavenly way you can keep a rig on the road and not at any time you are stopped not to have something wrong.
The DOT knows it, the drivers know it, it is a game played by all.
That revenue from the fines is what pay for our highways and maintenance of said highways.

On paper, inspections are to insure only safe vehicles are on the highways.
In reality, if a DOT officer wants to fine you, he will find something.

Now, maybe this is a two bit outfit doing plenty wrong that good truckers would not do and so an easy target and one that needs to be fined or even their license suspended, that I don't know.

Will doing so help any horses, or will they keep on trucking the same, under another name?

In any case, those stories sure gives animal rights extremists free publicity to keep painting everyone, from the few that, real or imagined, are presented as evil abusers.

[Tamara in TN]

2 x Frame cracked/loose/sagging/broken

2 x Wheel cracked or broken

1 x Leafspring defective/missing

6 x Tire - ply or belt material exposed

Several of those 64 violations were OOS; which if you review their records, they did not comply with.

Also, according to the above link, they had an accident in October of 2011 with injuries.

For fatique driving (hours of service) they have a fail rate of 97.4%

all the violations listed above are some serious serious problems esp the frames and the retreads

Tamara

[luvmytbs]

all the violations listed above are some serious serious problems esp the frames and the retreads

Tamara

Would be interesting to know if those frame violations were for the trailer that broke in half yesterday.

[Plainandtall]

Re: haulback. Not that it tells what every trip is like, but in the story from the disgruntled trucker I linked, two trucks made the trip and one trailer was sold in TX and the other was going to return empty, but one emaciated mare refused at the border was reloaded and returned to TN.

[SwampYankee]

The only way this kind of thing is going to end is the day it becomes economically unviable.

If someone is trying to pay their bills, and is desperate or profit motivated enough, whether or not the cargo is alive becomes a technicality. If it pays, they're going to do it. And anything governmental is operating at sub-optimal efficiency today due to funding issues, which includes the DOT.

But the solution may be more than we know in OUR hands. So . . . here's what WE have to do:

(1) Cut off supply. Stop breeding inferior stock, stop selling youngsters that aren't trained, stop dumping the old and infirm at auctions. If you can't afford euthanasia, you can't afford a horse. Now as throughout all of history, horses are a LUXURY. Take responsibility for what you own, and use peer pressure--do NOT let it be all right for people to just dump them, any more than it's now OK to let your unspayed dog run all over town and then drown the puppies.

(2) Cut off demand. I don't notice much of this horse meat being slaughtered for dog food and zoos--and it's certainly NOT going to provide protein for starving people in sub-Saharan Africa! Due to the IGNORANCE of the consumer in Europe, it's a "delicacy" for the discriminating restaurant cuisines of Belgium and France--and if WE were to let them know what their delicate EU-conditioned palates are REALLY eating--that it just might be over 20 years old and laced with everything from steroids to Bute to Ivermectin and more--could it be the demand dries up pronto?

Put out the word, posting on Belgian and French foodie blogs and I'll bet the price south of the border drops off pretty damn quick and this yokel gets himself a job at Wal-Mart.

[pony4me]

Agree with the post above that since we are not having much luck drying up the supply, we might look at influencing the demand. Does anyone know if horsemeat sold in Europe has to labeled by country of origin?