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  1. #181
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2001
    Location
    LI,NY
    Posts
    156

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    If we look at last years end of the year awards, only two of the six were horses. I do believe it was more than ten times it was split-seems that I remember splitting at Salt River, Hunters Isle, and Winners Circle. I can honestly say that at the shows I attended the division was split more often than not, but when not split there seemed about 20 in it. At the Hunters Isle series, their cooler was given to the pony, yet had never competed against the horses ever. Another downside to this was that many weeks there seemed to fewer ponies than horses-thus making the ponies points easier to accumulate.

    As I have said in the past, I think they should be two separate divisions; just as they are for low hunter and children's hunter.

    What I find most appalling is the talk of discarding show results that were split this year. If the class was run as a split, then it should count.

    Comparing the pre-childrens to the lows with regard to splitting really isn't comparable. The way I see it, if the lows don't have enough entries to split it doesn't have the same impact because they are split for end of the year. If there are only two amateurs then they still move up in points against the other amateurs. However, what happened this weekend-not splitting 4+4 was wrong.

    I have never been to a PHA meeting, always assumed it was for professionals only-I did however witness the meeting at Mid-Island regarding the 20 show issue. As a non-professional outsider let me say that there seems to be two distictively different groups in play and I came away from that meeting thinking who's in it for what. The skeptic in me keeps trying to figure out the angles, and once again the concept of FUN seems to be overlooked. Consistancy would be great, it would be great for the exhibitors to not have to read the prize lists like a jailhouse lawyer and know going in what the rules are and that the results will indeed count.



  2. #182
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
    Location
    Stony Brook
    Posts
    81

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    I checked with Micheal McCarthy on how many shows split the pre childrens and the answer was 10. These shows were Hunter's Isle and Winner's Circle. And yes the splitting the class but awarding one cooler/high score award tilts the results. I believe the old LIHSAA specs didn't say you could split the class BUT it didn't specifically say NO split. Reading other division specs it does say the lows/ old pre-green could be split amateur and pro. Unfortunately the new specs that were posted (a little late to be sure) do clearly state the pre-childrens are not to be split. Hopefully this will keep the horses and ponies competing against each other and the results on a equal playing field. Whether they are split in the year 2002 will no doubt be discussed at a PHA and LIHSAA meetings.

    As for the points awarded in the class that split this year. As I stated before the entrants participater in good faith that they were following the rules. A precident was set in 1999 and 2000 when the class split and points counted. The points should be counted for that one show.



  3. #183
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2001
    Location
    LI,NY
    Posts
    156

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    When was it first posted that the pre-children's cannot be split-had the year already started?

    Hey Deb, you were there, didn't it seem that more than ten shows split it? If they split winners circle and Hunters Isle, that was more than ten right there.

    I certainly hope that the no split rule was posted before the start of the year.

    As a non`-pro, let me ask, was it always like this? Did they always propose rule changes like the 20 show rule after the show year started? When was the no split change made-was it thrown open to some sort of vote? I remember years ago not having any idea where everyone stood in the points, this website thing has made for better competition. If the show in question gets posted in errors/ommisions section and points are not given there are going to be very angry people out there.



  4. #184
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

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    And might I add like anyone really cares but I shall trudge on.

    I have probably said these same things in this thread so I will try not to repeat myslef. Just need to go back to the previous pages and see my views. I do feel it may have been split more then 10 times.

    Last point I need to add. Can someone tell me where all of this is coming from? Why are we treating this pre-childrens division like it is the horror division on the roster? What is the big deal if it's split at the end of the year? Who has a grudge with this division please answer my question? Janet and I have aired our views on this but it seems others have taken such a harsh stand on this and I just don't get it. The AHSA started spliting divisions and they started with the childrens hunter so what is the big deal here.One big question, Is one more cooler and ten more minutes at the dinner dance a horrible price to pay for making a lot of exhibitors happy. Remember, we are not creating a new division, we are just follwing the AHSA s lead with Childrens hunter, and splitting our starter division with the same policies.

    Why is it we seem to be fighting so much lately? Are we all not in this for the same reasons? This whole thing to me is quite sad that all can not get together and just step back and think a minute. We all just want to go to a pleasant horseshow, learn to ride, have fun and in the end for all the hard work and money spent bring home a piece of fabric and maybe even a coat for the one who carried us around all year. Instead of looking at this as war, can we look at it as a bunch of dedicated people doing the best they can to keep the masses happy.
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  5. #185
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
    Location
    southampton,ny
    Posts
    2,348

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    um well a lil' birdie emailed me while i ws aaway with the following news ...She had gone to lihsaa website only to see a notice that there will be no mini finals this year???????
    Now i don't even compete in the gD THING but I am SICK AND TIRED OF THINGS BEING CHANGED W/O DISCUSSION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!What kind of jimmy jack corn association is this and why is thsi being allowed to continue?????
    Brilyntrip



  6. #186
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

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    I was present at the PHA meeting where this was discussed months ago to combine the Hugh, Robert and PHA divisions as one division with points accumulated to put a spark in these classes so that put a stop to the finals. Now it will be one award in the eq. for Jrs. and one for Adults with points accumulated from those 3 classes. This was discussed quite a while ago so I have to say that one did not come out of nowhere. The PHA has been throwing that around for a bit to give the mini eq. classes the boost it needed.
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  7. #187
    Join Date
    Apr. 11, 2001
    Location
    Hauppauge, NY USA
    Posts
    33

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    Whew!! This is going to be some meeting!! Is it going to be a 24 hour job? Sounds like you guys have alot to talk about!! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] June 11th, 7:30, New Horizon Diner, right?



  8. #188
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

    Default

    And don't forget the PHA meeting on the 4th too. Same place,same time!
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  9. #189
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 1999
    Location
    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
    Posts
    6,082

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    and the ones on the other LI threads and get every issue down on paper. If someone will let me know how many copies of these I should make, I will be able to attend the 11th after all (thanks Jane M!) and will bring these with me...I have sent a copy to several of you of the rude relpy I got from the LIHSAA webmaster in answer to a very simple and straightforward question re the Mini/Adult finals issue Karin raised above--thank you Deb for providing Karin and me with the answer in a rational, and I'd like to point out: <<<courteous>>> manner. This persistent rudeness is yet another "issue" to deal with, and a bothersome one at that as it should be totally unnecessary--don't we have enough to keep us occupied!!!



  10. #190
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

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    I can see that e-mail you recieved fueled some fire here!!! I am so glad you can make it to the meeting now. I am sorry you were not able to get the information you were looking for. Why is that you think? Is that not the job of a web-master to answer questions?

    O.K.,lets try this. I know this thread has some people of higher authority not too pleased with us. If they would really take the time to read them, they could see the problems and we could all work together as a team. But no. We seem to be the bad guys expressing our views and opinions. Like I have stated earlier, are we all not in this for the same reasons. Don't we want to see happy people at L.I. horse shows.

    Wherever the bad feelings are coming from, It must stop. Peoples feelings are getting hurt and that is not what is supposed to be gained by this thread. Everyone on this thread is just trying to either learn or throw another view in the pot. Treat people with respect or as everyones mom has said 'If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all!

    oh, and Mary, two copies will probably take up all your computer paper! If you can make them that would be great.
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  11. #191
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 1999
    Location
    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
    Posts
    6,082

    Default

    <<I know this thread has some people of higher authority not too pleased with us. If they would really take the time to read them, they could see the problems and we could all work together as a team. But no. We seem to be the bad guys expressing our views and opinions.>>

    I, for one, certainly do not mean to cause offense by participating in these discussions. I guess all the rumbling could be taken the wrong way, but it makes perfect sense to me that if there is a thankless task to be done, that getting people on all sides of the issue to agree to pitch in and tackle it is the most efficient way to get it done and minimize the griping afterwards.


    <<Like I have stated earlier, are we all not in this for the same reasons. >>

    Actually, we aren't...the horse is the one thing we all have in common, but our reasons for participating vary; trainers are motivated by certain things, clients by others, juniors and their parents by something else, amateurs by yet another, and show management by yet another--because of our interactions at the shows, there is a sizable amount of economic activity riding on what decisions are going to be made over the next few months...I think it would be a shame if some will choose to be too shortsighted to recognize that times, society, and our sport are all undergoing changes, and it would be in the best interests of all of us that the show scene on LI do the same....



  12. #192
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

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    You have a way with words and I hope people are really reading them! I just think we should all be trying to work together and get to one common goal. I for one am glad you will be coming on the 11th. We need your perspective on this.
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  13. #193
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

    Default

    Cann't get here soon enough for me. Start spreading the word people. Let's pack the house again. It worked for the 20 horse show rule. Have your voice heard again!!!
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  14. #194
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 1999
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,091

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    Since I don't plan on attending the PHA meeting, I thought maybe those who are can bring this up --- I really enjoy GM's "Long Island, Past, Present, and Future" last year, and I wonder if the PHA is planning on more similar events.....Get GM back again even...I'm sure he has plenty of other stories to tell [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    "Aly" -- Glad you're keeping Sam. He is such a good boy! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    "fighting stupidity; one step at a time" -- a wise COTHer



  15. #195
    Join Date
    May. 13, 2001
    Location
    Long Island, NY USA
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Hey Jane I thought you were at HITS II this weekend?



  16. #196
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

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    Please tell me you are planning on going the 11th!!? Go a little early and have some dinner with us. Tell Steve too!
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



  17. #197
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 1999
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    2,091

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    Stacey -- nah, we ended up not going...I think because no one sent in their entries! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] But we will be going to HITS 4 or 5. We're looking into Ox Ridge and Fairfield, if the classes aren't filled already.

    Deb -- I wasn't planning on attending the meeting...I like to listen to all the opinions/ideas, but don't have much of my own at this point. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] Besides, I live in Nassau county, so after spending a good portion of the day out east at the barnS, the last thing I want to do is drive out there again, and that goes for my day "off". My boyfriend already thinks I spend too much time on horse-related "stuff" anyway. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]
    "fighting stupidity; one step at a time" -- a wise COTHer



  18. #198
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
    Location
    Stony Brook
    Posts
    81

    Default

    AW come on Jane, we have dinner before hand with Janet and Debbie you'll have a blast and it's only one or two times a month??



  19. #199
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 1999
    Location
    Lexington Kentucky
    Posts
    237

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    Some of the clutter posts are bugging me. Sorry, just a long day wearing the show secretary hat at Glen Head - Muttontown. I'm very tired.

    Point is: don't some of you guys (mostly Gals, I think) ever try AOL IM or e-mail? There are too many e-mail or IM type posts for me to wade through. I would really appreciate all the chatty "between the two of us" type posts to be kept off this thread and find their way to your E-mails or IM chats. Can't we focus on the basic premise of this thread? (That is, posts about LI PHA / LIHSAA issues we can all relate to)

    Thanks, and again, I'm sorry for the beef, but I just had to vent.



  20. #200
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

    Default

    Just wanted to let you know you did a great job today. It was a long day and you were a great secretary!
    To stay on the horse show theme- I was scepticle about the rings but I thought the hunter ring was great. The main ring footing was fine. Long jumper courses. But- we lost one in the pre-childrens hack! Big class again. Hey, has anyone thought about splitting the pre-childrens horses and ponies. I think I'll bring that up at the June 11th meeting! LOL Beware people, the masses want the split! But, as far as the Preserve- It was fine.
    In defense of the chit chat Laura, I think sometimes it just breaks up the constant back and forth stuff and we can step back from it for a minute!
    Don't forget the PHA meeting tomorrow night guys!
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



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