The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 279
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2001
    Posts
    5,653

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
    are Pro-Life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    The correct term is anti-choice.

    thanks. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2001
    Location
    Minnesotan living in PARIS!
    Posts
    926

    Default

    As a close associate to Peter Singer and Tom Regan, I have had many, many opportunities to sit and speak with them in length about AR topics. I also attend an AR conference every year with THE top AR leaders. (FYI-I boycotted Ingrid Newkirk's speech) I have been questioned many, many, MANY times about having and riding horses. I have no problem with riding. Tom and Peter agree with me.
    Horses like to have jobs. I do not believe in making a horse who does not enjoy jumping, jump. (Is it cruel to throw a ball for a dog? YOu make the dog 'work', but does the dog enjoy it??)

    IMO, there are WAY bigger issues to deal with, like the slaughter of 9 BILLION farmed animals every year to merely satisfy human taste buds. Once slaughter, research, overpopulation of companion animals, and other cruelties are resolved, I will start worrying about horses and riding.


    Everyone has their views. Ingrid has companion cats. We, as a group of AR people, KNOW that we are fully responsible for domesticated animals. No one wants them running the streets, including PETA who whole-heartedly believes in euthanasia, as do I.

    I have worked in animal rights for over 10 years. I have heard every side, and have debated every issue. Its easy to try to find 'fault' in a belief, as it makes you more comfortable. That's fine. Just keep in mind that there ARE those out there who want to know the TRUTH. That is why I take MEAT SCIENCE classes, thats why I study every bit of scientific literature I can get my hands on about research. I want the FULL story. I want to be well informed, both from the AR view, AND the other side. I am not going into this blindly. I have worked in slaughter houses, fur farms, and dog research laboratories. It's horrific, and you wouldn't want your horse, your dog, or your cat to go through what these animals endure.

    I am a vegan, avoid leather at all costs (although this world is NOT perfect)
    and am completely against animal testing although I have the most severe case of multiple sclerosis you can get. I will NOT give MS charities money so others (the animals) will die in vain. I am but one life. Thousands of animals do not need to die for me to live. Its not right. Their lives are JUST as important to them as mine is to me.
    \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Posts
    7,937

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:

    What hoodoo is saying is that PETA is not representative of the AR movement. So using quotes from PETA to define AR isn't really proving anything.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Erin, I've read every single post. I am stunned that you and hoodoo are saying that PETA is not representative of the AR movement! PETA is extremely representative of the AR movement. In fact, I'd say they define it.

    Ok, folks, everybody take a quick office poll. Say to your co-workers: "PETA. What is it?" Tell me what they say. Or ask people: name an animal rights group. Tell me what they say.

    In addition, I gave quotes from other ARs: a Princeton professor, the New Jersey Animal Rights Alliance, the Animals Agenda, the Animals Voice. The John Bryant quote was from his book "Fettered Kingdom". I have given quotes from FIVE non-PETA AR places right there, and I can give you a dozen more. So, are NONE of these representative of the AR movement?

    I think many horse people really have their heads in the sand on this one.

    {And yes, Erin, I am really enjoying this discussion. I do appreciate all your posts- they're great for getting & keeping the ball rolling}.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2000
    Location
    Charm City, hon
    Posts
    5,234

    Default

    Erin, MB & Daydream pretty much summed it up for me. The views of one AR org. doesn't constitute the views of all.

    I think Peta's gone off their collective rockers. There are a lot of people involved with Peta who have (or had) no idea that they are funding terroism groups. Paul McCartney supports Peta and he has horses and rides. He is pretty serious about animal rithgs

    If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop diggin'- A Cowboy's Guide to Life
    The truth is rarely pure, and never simple. Oscar Wilde



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Posts
    7,937

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bgoosewood:
    Erin, MB & Daydream pretty much summed it up for me. The views of one AR org. doesn't constitute the views of all.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I gave the views of SIX AR organizations, not one. Six. Can we say 'denial'?



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 1999
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    16,626

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:

    Erin, I've read every single post. I am stunned that you and hoodoo are saying that PETA is not representative of the AR movement! PETA is extremely representative of the AR movement. In fact, I'd say they define it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    PETA is the most visible face of the AR movement. No doubt about that. Does PETA represent the views of the majority of animal rightists? My perception is that they don't. Same as Jimmy and Tammy Faye don't represent the views of the majority of Christians. Same as USET doesn't represent the views of the majority of horse people. (Hee hee... okay, maybe the last one isn't as good of a comparison. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

    My point is that the views espoused by PETA do not necessarily seem to jive with the views of the general "animal rights movement." PETA is the loudmouth arm of the movement that gets all the attention, but my perception is that they are not "the movement." Again, that's just my perception as someone who has looked into this stuff a bit.

    I am pretty sure you can be an animal rights supporter and think PETA is a crock of horse doody. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2001
    Location
    Gotham City BEQS/TSAU Clique
    Posts
    1,477

    Default

    Well, that just says it all! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    "It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will." -- Alois Podhajsky

    "Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony."
    \"It is by no means the privilege of the rider to part with his horse solely by his own will.\" -- Alois Podhajsky

    \"Go on, Bill... This is no place for a pony.\"



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2000
    Location
    Durham/Chapel Hill nc
    Posts
    3,812

    Default

    MB and yd - you go, girls!

    Did you say you, too, were autonomus rebels?? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Posts
    7,937

    Default

    Make that SEVEN. I'm adding HSUS:

    Wayne Pacelle, Senior Vice President, Humane Society of the United States:

    "We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. ... One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals."

    "The life of an ant and that of my child should be granted equal consideration."



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2001
    Location
    Minnesotan living in PARIS!
    Posts
    926

    Default

    <sigh>
    Tom Regan is a RIGHTS THEORIST.
    Peter Singer is a UTILITARIAN.
    The NJ Alliance for Animals is a college based grassroots organization. Not exactly the thinkers and the shakers. One thing you find out quickly in AR circles, is the longer you are involved, the less PETA and the like mean to you.

    Peter Singer's quote referring to human torture--if its for the good of many...of course killing BILLIONS of animals to help our lowly human population thrive is THE case study for ignorance and selfishness.

    Alex Pacheco left PETA years ago over opposing views with Ingrid. I do, however believe that animals being tortured should be freed with whatever means possible, but I would do that for a human as well. DO I care about someone's job as a researcher or killer? As much as anyone cares about the guy at walmart's job. Not alot.
    \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Posts
    7,937

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoodoo:

    I am a vegan, avoid leather at all costs
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    What are your saddles, bridles, and halters made from?



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 1999
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    16,626

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Anne FS:

    I gave the views of SIX AR organizations, not one. Six. Can we say 'denial'?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Okay... but where did you get those quotes? The fact that you found them all in such quick fashion makes me think that they were probably all compiled on one anti-AR page. And probably taken out of context. (By them, not you... Sorry, I'm a natural skeptic and I rarely believe everything I read. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )

    I'm not in denial. I just don't believe that things are as black and white as people like to portray them. I don't think it's as easy as "animal rights bad, animal welfare good." I don't think the world can be neatly divided into "us" and the "evil-doers." [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    If you ask me, we as horse people have more to fear from the animal welfare movement than the animal rights movement. The hard-core AR's are awfully busy blowing up research labs and probably don't care as much about the local h/j circuit. (And RAyers, I don't mean to diminish the fears of the researchers in any way... I personally don't think there's any excuse for that kind of violent agenda. If you can't make your case with words, you're not trying hard enough!)

    Y'know who I worry about? The naive bunny-huggers who believe everything they read, who will be easily swayed by misleading portrayals of our sports (like the moronic "article" on the death of Bermuda's Gold at the Sydney Olympics that appeared on the HSUS website the day after she was put down, calling for the banning of eventing [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] ). You convince enough uninformed suburban soccer moms that a sport is "cruel," and you suddenly start seeing useless legislation like the ban on horse slaughter.

    It's so easy to take "facts" and twist them around and make things appear to be what they aren't. Don't believe everything you read. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    [This message was edited by Erin on Sep. 17, 2002 at 11:35 AM.]



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
    Posts
    1,914

    Default

    Anne FS, I'm not certain that you've actually cited separate sources. Isn't Animals' Agenda PETA's own publication? And Animals' Voice sounds like the title of another group's publication. I'm not familiar with NJARA, but suspect it's a small group that is closely allied with PETA, not a major independent group.

    I would also be interested in hearing the entire text from which isolated sentences were taken, since my experience is that they're frequently taken completely out of context.

    Gary Francione is definitely waaay out there. People who support animal welfare or moderate animal rights are about as comfortable with his views as Republicans are with Pat Buchanan.

    I absolutely agree with Erin, MBStark, bgoosewood, etc., that the issue of animal rights is not black or white, either/or. It's a spectrum of beliefs, just like religion or politics.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2000
    Posts
    1,070

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't see this as horsey and it is getting Political. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Good one, MBStark! Agreed!

    But before it's (hopefully) locked, I must point out to aspiring PETA-freaks or AR supporters who might have in mind attacking my chosen animal-filled lifestyle that I have given up HRT, I have a shotgun, and I know how to use it!
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2001
    Location
    Minnesotan living in PARIS!
    Posts
    926

    Default

    QUOTE:
    [Wayne Pacelle, Senior Vice President, Humane Society of the United States:

    "We have no ethical obligation to preserve the different breeds of livestock produced through selective breeding. ... One generation and out. We have no problem with the extinction of domestic animals."]



    Wayne is a VERY good friend of mine. Says it right. I would rather see cows, pigs, etc extinct than suffer unimaginable horrors of the slaughterhouse. If given a choice, euthanize me, don't stun me, hang me up alive (6 out of ten times) and skin and dismember me while I am conscious. Yep, Wayne is right on. We are breeding animals to torture them. I hope to God that someday we no longer breed pigs in sow crates to live horrible joyless lives. A life like that is not worth living.
    \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Oct. 23, 2000
    Posts
    1,914

    Default

    Just saw that Wayne Pacelle quote. I've seen it tossed around before, and actually had the opportunity to ask him about it. It *is* taken totally out of context. He was quite familiar with its routine misuse.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Posts
    7,937

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoodoo:
    <sigh>
    Tom Regan is a RIGHTS THEORIST.
    Peter Singer is a UTILITARIAN.
    The NJ Alliance for Animals is a college based grassroots organization.
    Not exactly the thinkers and the shakers.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Not exactly the thinkers and shakers? Tell me who is then.

    Tom Regan: Head of Dept. of Philosophy & Religion, North Carolina State, 1995-1999. Master's and Doctoral degrees from the University of Virginia.

    Peter Singer: Professor of Bioethics at Princeton University. Master's from University of Melbourne, B. Phil. from Oxford.

    NJ Animal Rights Alliance. Grassroots, eh? and therefore not credible. Like USA Eq?

    What about HSUS, the Animals Agenda, the Animals Voice? You said nothing about these organizations/publications. So are they, too, like PETA, and the 'non-thinkers' Drs. Singer and Regan, not speaking for your movement? Please then, tell me who is. I give source after source, quote after quote, of people, organizations and publications telling me they are speaking for the animal rights movement. Guess they're all liars, then.



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2000
    Location
    Milford, CT
    Posts
    948

    Default

    I have commented on these threads before, but my Opinion is that we need someone to the Far Left so we can find a happy medium in the Middle.

    When I worked for Greenpeace for 5 years, I would hear so many people say we were Radical. I personally thought we were more main stream and I would tend to be more on the side of Earth First.

    But I don't necessarily have to agree with EVERY aspect of an organization's mission statement to lend them some support.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 1999
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA USA
    Posts
    7,937

    Default

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Erin:

    Okay... but where did you get those quotes? The fact that you found them all in such quick fashion makes me think that they were probably all compiled on one anti-AR page. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I've been collecting animal rights quotes for 12 years now. I have an extensive collection. They're in a file on my hard drive. I save them because people simply refuse to believe that's what the AR movement is about, so I started saving the quotes in 1990.

    If they were all compiled on one page, does that make them less valuable? How odd. I understand about taking things out of context - so I say to you READ AR books, magazines, and publications yourselves. Go to the source, like I did. That has been my point here from the beginning. Don't take MY word for it, read the stuff YOURSELF and decide. I, too, first heard 'animal rights' and thought it was all about caring for animals and treating them well. When I actually began to read and listen to the stuff, my eyes were opened and I realized that to call myself an AR was not correct. This stuff is not taken out of context. Start reading these things.



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    8,615

    Default

    regarding the breeding of livestock for slaughter: doesn't it make more sense to fight for more humane methods of keeping and slaughering these animals, than to eliminate the practice completely (never happen) and deny me my right to eat meat? Not to mention the other countries that buy their meat from us. Although I agree with many of the arguments, I have always thought that AR fights battles it has no hope of winning and that are especially abhorrent to the general public. And I will never be a vegan or not use leather. But I do believe there are better ways to obtain them.

    Fight the fights you can win; start small and build to the bigger battles. Even small victories advance the care and lives of animals.

    Laurie
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com



Similar Threads

  1. PETA - are they really that bad?
    By Kate66 in forum Off Course
    Replies: 205
    Last Post: Sep. 10, 2012, 10:36 AM
  2. WETA in DC PETA ad
    By red mares in forum Off Course
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: Jun. 28, 2012, 09:35 AM
  3. PETA Wants $360 fee added...
    By ThisTooShallPass in forum Racing
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: Jun. 1, 2011, 10:13 AM
  4. Lea Michele/PETA/ Carriages in NYC
    By BlueBobRadar in forum Off Course
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Jan. 7, 2011, 10:26 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •