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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2000
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    241

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    What a great topic!
    Anyone remember in the late '70's when the junior divisions at A shows was so big that if you had a major fault (eg. a rail down) you were "bleeped" out and didn't get to finish the course? Happened to me once at N.C. State Fair (yes, the old Dorton arena), and they blew a LOUD horn (like a car horn) - how embarassing!



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Nokesville, VA
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    35,408

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    One thing no-one else has mentioned- NO saddlepads in the show ring. Saddlepads were considered a "shortcut" to keep the bottom of your saddle clean, and were NOT acceptable at a show.

    Another big no-no was field boots. They were just for schooling, but not acceptable in the show ring. And that may be one of the reasons for boot straps. Fewer people had custom boots, and even custom dress boots tend to slip down if you have a high instep. The bootstrap (fastened between the third and fourth BUTTONS on your canary non-stretch, peg-legged britches) kept the heel of you boot from slipping down.

    (Modern aside, in an emergency situation- custom boots fell apart, I needed SOEMTHING to show in next weekend - I bought a pair of off-the-rack dress boots that were a bit loose round the ankle.instep. I decided that boot straps would help. The boots still have the loop at the back, but NOBODY sells boot straps. I ended up buying a pair of spur straps and using them.)

    I never had anything but a black jacket. I was in Pony Club, and you needed a black jacket for the rally, and my parents couldn't see any point in buying TWO jackets we were just going to outgrow. (Other kids had a all sorts of light coleored and bright colored jacets, as well as real tweeds.) I had a variety of solid colored shirts (white and pale yellow are the ones I remember). But where we really went wild was with the chokers. All sorts of different colored prints. I particularly remember a gray silk one with little red and yellow diamonds on it. NOBODY wore a solid colored choker. And you HAD to wear a stock pin or similar with it. If you didn't, the choker would rotate around your neck so the buttons were in the front.

    Our hard hats were black velvet, with a black elastic strap which was of no use at all. Adults showed in Derby's in the hunter classes. And anyone who was not on the hunt staff who wore a hard hat with the ribbon DOWN would be laughed off the grounds.

    For Pony Club we had to wear white cotton gloves, but we didn't wear those for showing.

    At many recognized shows (and the one I remember in particular is the Bedford Whip and Spur on "old" Mrs. Tucker's estate) ALL of the hunter classes took place on the outside course. There was a nice flat spot about half way round the course where they held the under saddle classes. It could get a little hairy at the hand-gallop, which was ALWAYS called for in the under-saddle class, followed by a "hold hard."

    Only the equitation classes were held in the ring. But there were ENOUGH equitation classes to keep the ring busy all day. Maiden, Novice, Limit, Open, Medal, Mclay. Under 12, 12 to 14, 15 to 17. Leadline. But no short stirrup division. And I don't remember any walk trot classes at recognized shows, only at unrecognized shows.

    The hunter classes for Juniors (sorry, I didn't pay a lot of attention to the Seniors) were Small Pony (2'6"), Large Pony (3'), Junior Hunters (3'6"). For the adults, all I remember was First and Second Year Green (Working or Conformation), and Regular Working and Conformation. That was IT. No "children's", no "Adult's", no "Warmup", no "Schooling", no "Pre-Green". At some of the bigger shows there was a separate "Local" division, but they jumped 3'6" too.

    The outside course was probably between 1/4 and 1/2 mile, taken at a "hunting pace"- i.e., a gallop. Fences I remember were post and rails (and a "closed" post and rail in-and-out), stone walls with riders, brush jumps which were living hedges, Aikens (used to scare us, but the horses loved them). Many courses had definite Uphill and Downhill sections.

    When I started, everyone used flat tack, but by the early 70's rolled tack had become the fashion. Saddles had lots of knee rolls (suede), and often had thigh rolls too. The Stubben Siegfreid was the saddle of choice then, though the Hermes and various Crosbys became pupular in the 70s. I got a Passier All-Purpose for my 14th (I think) birthday, which I still have, and sometimes use, today.

    Jumper classes started at 4', and speed classes were just coming into common use. Every show with jumpers had at least one "touch" class. I still rmember seeing Tony Ambrosio SENIOR before he figured out that GALLOPING between the fences (but going the LONG way) was NOT the way to get a fast time.

    More later probably. I have to join a conference call.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    19,435

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    I never showed because I was afraid at over 3'6. Went to lots of shows with friends who had horses that could do both hunters and jumpers, and I remember pretty much what Janet and PamM remember.

    Does anybody remember moleskin breeches for men?

    The first stretch breeches were just coming in when I quit riding, and they were Helanca from Switzerland. Everybody yearned for a Pariani FS saddle, and the Mexicans ruled the International Shows with Colonel Morales.

    If you had a black Melton coat, it wasactually melton fabric, and it did have the button at the neck for holding the collar up in icy weather.

    Custom boots were pretty much Dehners, and they lasted and lasted and lasted. Every town had a cobbler, so you could get your off the shelf boots customized, as someone else mentioned.'

    You never saw an adult woman in anything except a derby hat, unless she had a top hat and sidesaddle.

    People still staghunted with hounds, and lots of women rode sidesaddle for that.

    Knock down and outs in the jumper classes. And fences in those classes that got REALLY, REALLY big. Time didn't count. A totally different style of riding for jumpers and hunters, and that was a NEW thing.

    Don't remember any show horses that weren't either grade or TB. No warmbloods, no QH's.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  4. #44
    Join Date
    May. 6, 1999
    Location
    Ocala, FL
    Posts
    10,440

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    I remember ooing and ahhing about it, the most expensive saddle on the market at the time (I'm pretty sure--at least in the catalogs it was) as $2500!

    And as to Stueben's. Please! To this day, I still cringe at the extra padding the Seigfried (scuze the spelling, if it's wrong) needed in back so that the rider's leg wouldn't jut out in front like sitting in a chair. Comfy and secure, absolutely. Fostering a good position, egad!

    And what about personalities? I've got two--no, three--for you:

    Rodney Jenkins and Harry DeLeyer (the Galloping Grandfather). Oh, for the days when our stars had PERSONALITY!

    The third? Tad Coffin (w/ Bruce coming in second and Conrad Homfeld in there, too, if only just for the record). Oh, those gorgeous blonds!

    Horses? For me, it was Jet Run and Balbuco.

    Sportponies Unlimited
    Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
    For more info, email: sportponies@horsecity.com
    Shameless signature plugplugplug.
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    May. 6, 1999
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    Ocala, FL
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    10,440

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    Or were those two the early eighties? I don't recall.

    Oh, and the Professional Horseman's Association. I don't know why, except that my boss was pretty active in it, but it stands out in my mind as an important and very functional organization back then. I recall Gene Mische played a major role and I specifically remember how they'd take up collections or whatever if someone got injured or died.


    Sportponies Unlimited
    Specializing in fancy, athletic, 3/4-TB ponies.
    For more info, email: sportponies@horsecity.com
    Shameless signature plugplugplug.
    Sportponies Unlimited
    Athletic Thoroughbred crosses for the highly motivated, smaller rider.



  6. #46
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    late 70's---what a classic!!!!!!!!! (horse too, but i'm partial!) [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2000
    Location
    Alexandria, VA USA
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    1,859

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    The horse that won so much for Bruce was a beautiful mare named Kim's Song.



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    8,573

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    PamM, what a great picture - I don't remember your memory being so good!!

    Kim's Song was indeed Bruce's nearly unbeatable A/O hunter - was anybody else at her retirement party during Washington? She was in her own little paddock (and own little world, due to being drugged to the gills) in the hotel while we all partied around her. It was a legendary party and Bruce was a terrific host.

    All my other memories have been mentioned here as far as attire and tack - I once bought a beautiful racehorse bridle (double stitched) from Miller's and it was my pride and joy - it was so cool.

    Laurie
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2000
    Location
    Chatham, NY USA
    Posts
    4,100

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Wrong, ccoronios. I never had a velveteen hat in my life. My black hat didn't have the elastic thingie, but both my blue and brown ones DID.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I stand corrected. I had only ever seen them on velveteen, although I do recall Kip's picture in George's first edition and it stands to reason she would have been wearing velvet.

    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm still looking for a replacement to a rein I had in the 70's - plain rein w/ a raised front. I do not like laced.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    After some freight train ripped the skin off 4 fingers with laced reins, I never rode in another pair. However, conditioned braided reins are wonderfully supple - but haven't looked for them in a million years..... I think I recall the ones you describe - sort of like a thin pencil line sewn on top of the rein to just about where a running martingale ring would be?
    www.ayliprod.com
    Equine Photography in the Northeast



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2000
    Location
    Youngsville, NC
    Posts
    2,534

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    Yep! It was a thing of beauty. It actually replaced the braided rein on my show bridle because it was 'slippery when wet'. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    'Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.'
    - Pablo Picasso



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    14,658

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    Yes, Under Saddle, Over Fences and Outside Course made up divisions, and the outside course had drop jumps!
    "If you would have only one day to live, you should spend at least half of it in the saddle."



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2000
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,088

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> RUXTON, RUXTON, RUXTON- my fave hunter of all times!!!Breeding anyone? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    By Abundance (Hanoverian) out of Nobody Much (TB).

    Bred by Al Steiert (sp?). Abundance was one of the first warmblood stallions imported to this country. According to a friend of mine who worked for Al Abundance was so even tempered that you could drive him paired with a mare.

    My friend rode Ruxton right after he was broken. You could call her fortunate but she said that he was pretty tough and prone to stopping. Goes to show you what some good professional rides can do for a horse.

    Nina



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 1999
    Location
    \"in the wind, and rain, looking for the sun..................\"
    Posts
    3,439

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    Pam M you are on my track [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Duke of Paeonia. Like you not sure of the sp. What a grand horse, and have to admit loved Not Always too! Friends have a 33 milmeter of schooling at MSG in '61. It's GREAT! They were trying to have this put on video.

    Remember those breeches well, you could stuff anything your heart desired in those flaps. How bout those black melton coats, or my personal fav the pinstriped summer coats with matching hunt cap.

    Oh forgot, had a Pariani with forward cut knee rolls. We used real sheepskin saddle pads at home. Kept brushing them out with baby powder to keep them clean.

    [This message was edited by wtywmn4 on Dec. 20, 2000 at 03:24 PM.]



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2000
    Location
    texas, usa
    Posts
    145

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    What i meant about jumpers years ago, was that i don't remember the childrens, adults, junior/ a/o,low schooling, high schooling, modified, etc and so on that we have today. You're right, they did have the Open Jumper classes at Raleigh!
    And, now that the old brain is functioning as it should (which on a good day leaves a lot to be desired...), i remember the entire family going to Charlotte for the Grand Prix they'd hold each year in one of the large football stadiums (which i'm sure has long since been torn down). The temporary stalls were across the road in a park, and the horses went thru a tunnel under a major thoroughfare to get to the ring.
    And, my hero of then (and now) will always be Rodney Jenkins and Idle Dice.



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,408

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    Hunters I remember:
    Aldie Belle (I was thrilled when, after I moved to Virginia, I drove through Aldie for the first time.)
    Showdown (later Spindletop Showdown) There was a horse that dominated the sport.
    Valhalla
    Rome Dome

    Another thing about shows, clases for each division were spread out throughout the day, e.g.,
    Jr Hunters on the outside course
    Large Ponies on the outside course,
    Small Ponies on the outside course,
    Jr Hunters under saddle on the outside course
    Large Ponies under saddle on the outside course,
    Small Ponies under saddle on the outside course,
    Jr Hunters on the outside course
    Large Ponies on the outside course,
    Small Ponies on the outside course.

    Back-to-back classes were UNHEARD of.

    You had either twelve or thirteen braids, depending on whether you had a mare or a gelding.

    You wore your hair in a hairnet, but NOT "put up" under the hard hat.

    Unlike some of the others, I DO remember breeds other than TB (though TBs were definitely the most popular). There were quite a few QH and QH crosses - probably in part because Sunnyfield Farm had a QH breeding program aimed at the "English" disciplines. But these were QHs that looked like TBs, so you wouldn't know unless someone told you.

    [This message was edited by Janet on Dec. 20, 2000 at 05:28 PM.]
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2000
    Location
    Kentucky
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    7,713

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    In the 60s and early 70s:

    You never saw horses with "color" in the show ring since hunters were expected to be Welsh (small ponies) Welsh/TB cross (large ponies) or Thoroughbreds and neither of those breeds came in colors like pinto, palomino, appaloosa, etc.

    Hand gallop in every hack class I ever rode in. And you always jogged for soundness, even at the smallest shows.

    Huge entries in the pony divisions. The first year my sister and I showed at Devon (no qualifying, you just entered and went)there were 72 large ponies. That led to a rule that if there were more than 50 entered, the division had to be split, which was great for us since we never had to show against each other at the A shows.

    Speaking of which, shows were rated A,B,C and unrecognized. Even the biggest--Devon, MSG, Upperville, etc, were just plain A.

    Does anyone else remember those wonderful long Island shows, North Shore (actually held on the shore, you could take your horse swimming in LI Sound if you wanted) and Piping Rock?

    No qualifying for any shows anywhere, except MSG. The only year we showed there was '67 (last year in the old Garden, with the move the following year to the new Garden, the pony divisions were dropped.) You had to win one blue ribbon at an A show to qualify--though there were many fewer A shows then.

    Lots of horses and ponies that weren't "right up to size" in their divisions and nobody cared. Hot Shot Kid and Keswick were two top large ponies who both measured 13.2. Aldie Belle, a fantastic working hunter, jumped 4' with Patty Heukeroth (sp?) and stood 15.1.

    I love this topic!



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
    Posts
    11,839

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    My favorite ponies of the era (can you tell that's what I showed?)
    Large: Pride n' Joy (mine), -- I remember the pony. I must remember you!

    Prim n' Proper,
    Thorwell,
    Rebel,
    Hot Shot Kid,-------Terry Rudd
    Rommel,
    Neat n' Tidy,
    Flying Mouse,
    Serendippity, -------Missy Leib
    Chimney Sweep.
    Small:
    Wizard of Oz, -------______ Burr

    Highfield's Town and Country, -----Brooke Hodgson

    Chantilly,---owned by Tanracken Farm. Ridden by Meta Boykin I think.

    Squeaky,
    Midget, ---girl from Conn.
    Driftwood.
    I found the perfect distance but they put the jump in the wrong place.



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
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    11,839

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    I saw Patty Heuckeroth at the KY Fall Classic this year--she was in for the Futurity--- and I looked and said "Patty, that horse looks like Aldie Belle." IT WAS her granddaughter!!!!!!

    And other good old horses: Rome Dome (Kip Rosenthal) and her other WONDERFUL gray horse

    Isgilde

    General C (ridden By VHV)

    Pikes Peak

    Old Dominion

    Cap and Gown

    ( Spindletop Showdown became just "Showdown" when he was bought byt he davies and moved to California and ridden by Linda Hough)

    Which brings me to : Sutton Place

    and Royal Blue (ridden by Bernie Traurig)

    Anyone remeber Lisa Joy Rosen with her two matching horses (full brothers): except one was 14.2 and the other was 14.2 1/2. So she showed one in ponies and the other in junior.

    SO MANY MEMORIES!

    Funny story about flap front breeches: I stopped riding when I went to College and started again 10 years later. I went to Flintridge to try horses, and the ONLY breeches I had were Melton wool, flap fronts. I was SO embarrassed when I saw what every one else was wearing! I went straight to the Paddock tack shop and bought new breeches---but Anne Kursinski had seen me in those breeches. (She was a Junior) and lusted after them--she thought they were so cool! So I sold them to her. LOL -- little did she know that I would never have been caught dead in them again!
    I found the perfect distance but they put the jump in the wrong place.



  19. #59
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2000
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    2,251

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    Did anybody here show at the Garden in the Children's Hunters? Before they had junior hunters, the division was chidren's (or child's, maybe) hunters. It was 3'6" then!



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2000
    Location
    Kentucky
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    These were the owners of the ponies when I was showing with/against them:

    Prim 'n Proper: Deborah (Debbie) Bonwit Cahn
    Thorwell: Karen Nolte
    Rebel: Judy Korn
    Hot Shot Kid: Terry Rudd, then Susie Rudd
    Rommel: Betsy Snyder (my sister)
    Neat n' Tidy: James Hulick, then Gail Hulick
    Flying Mouse: Jane Leasure
    Chimney Sweep: Cindy Weiner

    Wizard of Oz: Nancy & Susan Burr, owners. Puddy Jones, rider.
    Highfield's Town & County: Barbara Ulrichson, followed by Debbie Wolfe
    Chantilly: Waverly Farm, then Syndy Paul
    Squeaky: Syndy Paul
    Midget: Nancy Baroody, then Syndy Paul
    Driftwood: Gail Hulick, then Syndy Paul

    All of the above except Thorwell, Neat n' Tidy, Flying Mouse, and Wizard were at the barn where I rode, All Around Farm in Gwynedd Valley, PA with Junie Kulp.



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