Perhaps I arrved late and after her post had been modified, because Is till don't see anything rude or offensive in it.
I respect McLain's riding as much as the nest person..as I stated on another thread, I saw him in the puissance this past October and was full of admiration both for his riding ability and his ability to rise above some of the idiots in the crowd.
However, I have seen some much more hateful things posted than what is in Jetsmom's current post and I think you say it best in "The rest of the posters are judged by what they have to say, not who they are, nothing makes McLain any different. " TeriKessler has had some truly hateful things thrown her way that have never been deleted as it was someone's "opinion". Perhaps I feel this way simply because I did not see what was originally posted.
Back to the topic at hand, I guess my question is at what point should an amateur such as myself should become concerned over a trainer's method of training. How would I know when a trainer has crossed the line between a training method and abuse? What training methods utilized by the pros should amatears avoid?
As I stated at the bottom of Jetsmom's post, the ONLY thing edited was her paragraphs - she had mistakenly put carriage returns in rather than letting word wrap do its job, thus the post was difficult to read.
It was NOT edited for CONTENT.
[This message was edited by Weatherford on May. 23, 2001 at 09:33 PM.]
co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!
I decided that I would have a look after dinner since there seemed to be so much interest in this post, wow! I am truly glad to see that so many people from different walks of life can come together and have an open minded chat. As to Jetsmom's post, I have heard far worse here on these boards and elsewere. I may not agree with ones opinion but it is their right to have it. I will not discuss the topic of my father other than questions related to our personal relationship. My father and I are very close and I support him wholeheartly. I stand behind him with waivering as he does for me, that is the way it is whether people agree or not. I owe my career and life to my father, he has tought me more given me more and shown me more than any father I have seen do for their children. I think that the comments made about happy, healthy horses are on target. In todays show world the horse care is firstclass all the way. I wish I were pampered the way my horses are. I am lucky to have the best people in world take care of my horses, this is the main reason for my success. As greatful as I am to be surrounded by the people I am sure my horses enjoy the bennefits the most.
One of those city that are big towns, real big!,San Antonio TX
Welcome McLain! I hope you do stay here. It can be very addicting trust me. In this BB we have people of all levals who have one thing in common the love of horses. We range all levals of the spectrum from people like me who use these boards to pass all the months of no riding to the active compedators. We are a large family here that take pride in our bond. I think over time you will notice we have a excentric flare compared to others. We do our best to meet each other and get to know everyone possible. We take pride in the victories of others weather a first time show or a special classic.
I myself came here a year ago and since that day have called this place my home. I come as often as I can and in that time to many I have become a special person. When I dissapear I get nasties to come back. When someone leaves we notice and we hate to loose people. We all get our bad emails once in a while but we don't hold grudges. Im telling you this so you can understand our little comunity of friends weather young or old. So how about it why not park your bench here for a while and give this quaint comunity a try. Trust me if you stay long enough and then leave you will miss it here. Its just something none of us can explain that makes this board so unique.
\"I\'m going to go see a horse about a man\" - Unknown
New York, NY (a.k.a. The City and Center of the Universe), Canada (T.O.) and England (Kent Countrysi
As I was lucky enough to hang around the in-gate as my boys went in the Low Preliminaries at OSF (small boast for proud Mommy), I can honestly attest that your fan club far outnumbers those that criticize. Its just unfortunate in life that those that criticize often do so with the loudest voice. It was fabulous to watch you ride all week and listen to your fellow professionals admire your stylish rounds.
Most people would be well advised to shut their collective traps when it comes to commenting on issues when they lack the full story and all of the facts. Best of luck this year....just leave a little room for my boys in the ribbons [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] (shameless begging here... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] )
TeriK...as your personal bb secretary, you know I bring you up whenever possible....I just don't always remember the one "r" [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]
McLain, I have to say that after reading your posts my admiration for you has grown. From what I have seen, you seem to handle both horses and controversy with tact and courage. I hope to read more of your opinions and advice in the future.
One of those city that are big towns, real big!,San Antonio TX
TK don't make me chase you with a baseball bat! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Oh wait I can't do that incase I need a favor in 20 years. Darn [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]
\"I\'m going to go see a horse about a man\" - Unknown
To those who were offended by my post, I will only state that what prompted it was the comment that He has never seen any cruelty or abuse at the upper levels....
To the comment about guts, I noticed that the majority of the posters that complained (except for Mr Ward), don't include any email icon so I might email them privately. I'd sign my name, but
none of you would recognize me by it anyways, since I've always been "Jetsmom" to the posters.
To Mr Ward- That you have a good relationship with your Dad is great. I don't think I mentioned anything that wasn't public record, and I did try to avoid going into any depth on the matter. The mention from you about not ever seeing any cruelty or abuse in the upper levels,
gave me pause, precisely, because of your close
relationship with the people involved in the events. I am not saying you were involved or should be condemned for the acts of others, but if
you re-read your post you might understand why I posted what I did. I did not intend to criticize you personally, but expressed my reaction to that comment, coming from someone so close to the individuals involved.
To Coreene- To answer your question, I'll compare it to a more fitting situation... if a young adult's mom, killed each man she dated, and went to jail, would I condemn the young adult if he said he's never seen a mother be violent? I might not condemn him, but I would probably post something similar to what I did. (Again, no problem with the person...just that comment on abuse coming from that person.). I would have emailed you, but you don't have that option on your posts. Thankfully it's a free country and we can respectfully disagree with someone's position.
To all- I did not post this just to attack Mr Ward. I do admire his riding, and did not ever suggest he participated in any cruelty. please re-read both of our posts and maybe my reason will be more clear.
ps-Miniwelsh-thanks for seeing it the way I intended it!
[This message was edited by jetsmom on May. 23, 2001 at 09:56 PM.]
Just one quick reminder... everyone is welcome to their opinions, but please remember that we're here to discuss what's posted, not the people posting. It's a well-known fact that not everyone on the BB gets along... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] However, anyone who follows the rules is welcome to post.
Jetsmom is entitled to her opinion, but I don't really want to see this topic turn into a discussion of personalities. Let's try to keep the thread about issues, not individuals, please. Thanks! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
I first would like to say that commend you for sticking to your guns. Honest opinions are fine by me. To answer you though without getting into a debate regarding my father I would like to point out a few things. Even if you find my father guilty without question, he was never accused of animal abuse or any harmful act against a horse with his hands. So in that case, no even if that is how you feel about him I have never seen horse abuse in our stable or at gp level showing in my years in the sport.
McLain I think it's great that you are here and everyone can hold an intelligent conversation. I must say I admire your riding greatly and judging from your posts you have a high standard of professionalism which I find very admirable. As a college student and a rider I am greatful to be able to learn from those at the top. I hope you stick around or atleast stop by once in awhile [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
This is off the subject, but McLain, I've got to ask, what is going through your mind and what are you looking at three strides out from a puissance wall? I've seen one puissance and I was awestruck.
Oh, and by the way, welcome. It was a nice treat to come in from the barn and see this thread. Your posts are very well written and thought-provoking. It's good to share different "glasses"--nothing's ever black and white! [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]
Ok, I can speak again. I think you (Maclain) are an amazing rider! And your input is wonderful! Now that I have finished gushing at you I'll say welcome to the board. Good luck this year, hopefully I'll get to see you ride somewhere soon!
I believe you have proved to me that you have great courage and I respect you more for being willing to have an open debate than even for your winning and riding. Truth is all that can survive in sunshine.
It is very important to have a dialog and for people to be able to understand that what might seem like cruelty to one is actually good horsemanship to another. A tolerance for differeance is the only thing that can spare this sport from extinction. Just as we consider the horses welfare in our keeping the animal rights extremists condemn us all and want horses freed from our work.
To have a value and to be able to do a job gives every living thing worth and joy. To feel useless and purposeless is to feel worthless. So, to the extent that you have expressed a kindness and consideration for the horse I offer you my respect and welcome you to these debates. Certainly, no one expects a parent to condemn their child nor a child to condemn a parent.
MW> I'm very glad to see you here and must admit your were a hero of mine. Please stick around we have many good topics here and the more "points of view" given out the better and wider spectrum we can get of this whole horse world.
I must also add though my little comment, take it as you will and I remind everyone that this is not ment as harsh or negative words. Take it with a grain of salt as always [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Just because someone thinks a training method is acceptable doesn't mean it is. Of couse who sets the rules? Do our famous high and mighty GP riders/trainers set the rules? We hold them up on huge pedistals but should we rest the whole horse well being in their hands. Perhaps to some, but I would rather euthinize my horse then send him to certain riders. Why? Because to me, they draw the line. And that is the whole kitten-cabbodle, the key word is ME right now. What I think, what I practise and what I believe crosses. Of course that still doesn't prove that I am right.
We need to get rid of the me and the I , we need to decide once and for all where the heck that line is and I don't think that will ever happen.
And this makes me laugh, for some reason it does. It makes me think of way back when someone said "if you see a pro post on the wrong diagnol; it's to benifit the horse. If you see anyone else do it; they are just stupid."
I don't know if this all will make sense to everyone but it does to me at this moment. I'm now going to bed and will read this again in the morning to either delete or edit to better state what I mean [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]