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  1. #21
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    Nov. 11, 2000
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    A land where classical riding and natural horsemanship have all but vanished, and must be revived for the greater good of all horses trapped in the human world...
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    For the most part, I agree with Jen West! But, I would like to take a moment to analyze the wonderful photos taken by PaulaM.

    Starting with the photo of Junior: Poll low, curb shank horizontal (heavy contact), head on or slightly behind the vertical. Tail appears to be held down tightly. Although the horse is still somewhat in mid-stride, his hindleg appears as though it could still be further under his body as this point.

    Now, the photo of chestnut: Man, that is a gorgeous horse! I have to know who that is. Overall, very pleasing picture. Very soft contact, the whole horse appears very relaxed and quite happy. He could be stepping under more, however. But again, it is overall a pleasing picture. Also, Anky's position is quite exemplary in this photo. Do you mind if I save it to add into my Webshots screensaver?

    I'm in a passive, kind mood today, so I'm not going to complain too much. I thought I'd just post my comments on Paula's beautiful photos.
    [I]\"His [the horse\'s] is a power enhanced by pride, a courage heightened by challenge. His is a swiftness intensified by strength, a majesty magnified by grace. His is a timeless beauty touched with gentleness, a spirit that calls our hearts to dream



  2. #22
    Join Date
    May. 18, 2000
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    Fuquay-Varina, NC,
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    2,159

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    "I hope one day to ride as "poorly" as Anky..."



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug. 29, 2000
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    Bumping along life\'s highway, oops, detour, welcome to Yuma, AZ.
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    And I would have to grow more than "guts" to ride with the jump crew running in the background, with the tractors resetting the jumper course.

    Pity these photos are an instant in time, yet we assume every step is taken in this exact frame and contact and that Anky doesn't have the "courage" to let go of her horse's face.

    Hellooouuu.

    Yes we should all aspire to ride so poorly.

    "The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!"
    \"The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!\"



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2001
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    Gaston, Oregon, USA
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    520

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    Oh yes- God forbid a horse pay attention to the rider with distractions in the background.

    I'm sorry, I do a great deal of my riding with farm equipment running in THE SAME field. Jump crews would be nothing.
    Considering that dressage's main application was originally for the training of warhorses it's a sad commentary indeed that the "top" horses cannot work with distractions or that when they do it's considered worthy of comment.

    I do not "ride dressage" so you would never see me at Spruce Meadows even if I were to win a lottery and were able to afford that whole program. What I do do is apply the principles of classical dressage to the training of horses that I buy, reschool, and sell. They are not high dollar horses. Many are wonderful athletes with "issues" and a fair number are just good workable horses.

    I didn't realize there was a minimum income required to post opinions on this board. If there is, please fill me in and I'll go somewhere a little "poorer." I also did not realize that winning is everything or the only thing. I am very very very sorry that so many people seem to think that quality and trophies are synonymous, and I am even sorrier that so many are willing to forego the principles on which this sport was developed in order to advance a level and to win.

    When everyone is doing it wrong or poorly, the judges are forced to pick the best from that lot. I don't give a rip what anybody has won. I flat guarantee that the piaffer is NOT supposed to have six beats, and I will reiterate, virtually EVERY World Cup horse I saw on OLN was tapping a hind foot between each step. No, I do not wish I rode that poorly. I would rather walk and trot correctly the rest of my life and never even canter again than to force a horse into a six beated gait. Period. That wouldn't even fly in a good circus, and THAT is sad.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2000
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    4,619

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    >>>I am very very very sorry that so many people seem to think that quality and trophies are synonymous,

    Nope, that's not what we think. It's just that we see something different than you. There is no such thing as perfection in dressage -- the scores prove it: a 10 = excellent, not perfect. So, yes, we are able to forgive something that isn't perfect. Anky is so fluid and as one with her horse that I can "forgive" her for her occasional mistake. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] I'm just another who would like to ride like that.
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2000
    Posts
    632

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ...virtually EVERY World Cup horse I saw on OLN... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    WAIT! I can't get involved in the discussion because I've never seen any of the people we are discussing ride and haven't watched any dressage in far too long--BUT when did OLN show dressage?!? I watch the Grands Prix when they are on Tuesday nights, but would LOVE to see dressage!Will there be more?



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Aug. 29, 2000
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    Bumping along life\'s highway, oops, detour, welcome to Yuma, AZ.
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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jen West:

    I didn't realize there was a minimum income required to post opinions on this board. If there is, please fill me in and I'll go somewhere a little "poorer." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    ??????

    "The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!"
    \"The older I get, the better I used to be, but who the heck cares!\"



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 1999
    Location
    Rochester, NY
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    12,015

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    Jen West, if there were a monetary worth requirement for posting on these forums, I suspect the boards would be just about empty.

    You know that you are welcome to post your opinions, just as everybody else is welcome to post theirs.

    Just remember everybody - "Issues not individuals"

    (Haven't had to post that in a while [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] )
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2001
    Location
    Gaston, Oregon, USA
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    520

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    that win international medals. When horses have six legs I'll change that.

    It takes a fair bit of money to compete in any equestrian events at any level. More than money it takes free time, which, with three children and a (small) farm in addition to horses, I do not have. When people say that because they haven't seen me at the big shows then yes, it DOES come down to a financial commentary. Just about the only sport in which one can pay one's own way at ANY level is barrel racing, and, well, ya jus' AIN'T gonna see me runnin' cans. Period.

    I'd rather be right than president and I'd rather ride lower levels well than international levels appallingly poorly. Any time a horse is performing so unnaturally as to mark six beats in ANY gait that horse is being ridden appallingly poorly in my book. I just can't see where the opposing side can be argued with any merit, but please, have at it. I'd love to hear the justification for showing a horse who cannot keep his hind feet in SINGLE time with his fore at the international level. Takers?



  10. #30
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2001
    Location
    Alberta
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    2,644

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    Checkers324, feel free to save it if you like.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2001
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    Alberta
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    If anyone else in interested here are a couple more pics.



  12. #32
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    May. 10, 2001
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    Alberta
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    And last one.



  13. #33
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    Feb. 4, 2001
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    Gaston, Oregon, USA
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    a "dressager" I'll throw this into the mix- it's from this week's Chron --- "Much of what I have learned has come from books and old photos, "---

    If it's good enough for George Morris, well, enough said. When I see a CURRENT GP star doing advanced moves on a floating rein or better yet one-handed on a floating rein, I will put the same credence into their philosophies as I do in the ODGs.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jun. 26, 2001
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    California
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    Jen West, perhaps what you saw was Anky having a difficult time with a difficult horse. That's all there could be to it. Perhaps this horse's training needs some polishing. If he was doing a six beat movement, yes that is incorrect.

    However . . . .Anky is a goddess in the saddle. She (from what I have heard in reviews) is also a very classical teacher. Classical as in ODG's! I ride with an almost ODG (he's pretty old) and I asked him about this. He laughed and said "they are horses aren't they?", I believe this to mean that they make mistakes and we can't always fix it right then and there, especially during a demonstration.

    Please don't get upset with everyone, we believe in our heroes and will stand up for them. Perhaps Anky herself had a bad day, been known to happen, just ask Isabelle Werth each time she beat her! What a great battle that was, watching those two go head to head, loved it!

    Oh and Jen your remark about running around cans, cracked me up! LOL! I wouldn't ride a barrel racer for love nor money, those ponies go way too fast for me, thank you very much!

    Hang in there Jen, our barks are worse than our bites, except for a couple of us anyway, kidding.

    Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!
    Lions and Tigers and Bears, oh my!!



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jan. 20, 2001
    Location
    Calgary
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    191

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> The best thing about Anky though was that she speaks so well to the crowd. The people that generally go to Spruce Meadows are a mixture of families wanting to see pretty horses jump, to those who are fairly educated in the sport of show jumping, to riders in the area that one day aspire to be in that big ring. Anky wowed all of these people with her humour and charisma. If nothing else I think it is great for dressage to gain public recognitian, maybe next time we approach a prospective sponsor they will have heard of the sport called dressage. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    One thing that seems to have been forgotten in this whole discussion is what an amazing job Anky has done as an ambassador for dressage.

    The dressage scene around here stinks. And I mean badly! I have a lot of issues with it, and unfortunately I compare the dressage scene to the jumper scene... and not much can compare to Spruce Meadows and the intensity of the hunter/jumper community in the surrounding area.

    But take a minute to look past Anky and her correct or incorrect riding for a second... look at the background in some of PaulaM's pictures (thanks for posting them by the way!). There's thousands of people with their eyes glued on a horse and rider in that ring. They listened very carefully to what she said. They learned about pirouettes and passage and extended trots. They thought it was beautiful! And in 10 minutes Anky & Junior did more for dressage than any of us could have done in 10 years. That has to be respected.

    And Joe Schmoe who brought the family to Spruce for the day doesn't give a crap if Junior's nose is in the air or at his knees. But he might now know a little bit of what Dressage is about.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2000
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    A land where classical riding and natural horsemanship have all but vanished, and must be revived for the greater good of all horses trapped in the human world...
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    Once again, I have to agree with Jen West.

    I really don't think Anky's riding is a good example of dressage. Joe Schmoe will see a horse on a heavy contact with straight hocks out behind him, and think that's dressage at its best. That is NOT the picture I want people getting of dressage. I think the main reason dressage is so unpopular is because the average non-horse person who doesn't know a thing about the technical stuff, just sees a tense and unhappy horse and gets very turned off, understandably.

    We are not just talking about a few secons of ONE difficult ride on ONE difficult horse. We're talking about World Cup-winning, Olympic silver medal-winning tests on BONFIRE! Heavy contact, poll dipped down, head on or behind the vertical, weight-bearing hocks straight, airborne hocks pointing skyward, croup high, back hollowed, four-beating at trot and canter, very nearly pacing at the walk. Things you WISH you saw in just the losing combinations. Nope, this is WINNING World Cups and Olympic medals! Just because someone's winning everything in sight does NOT mean she is in any way good. I believe one of our fellow BBer's once said "You are only as good as the judge thinks you are". Many judges have not even ridden or trained up to the level they are judging at!

    I just do NOT see in about 99% of winning pairs -- INCLUDING Anky and her horses -- the same collection, energy, engagement, fluidity, HARMONY and overall CORRECTNESS I see in the horses of the classical masters. Now, of course, that's just my NON-competitive, NON-moneyed, opinion.
    [I]\"His [the horse\'s] is a power enhanced by pride, a courage heightened by challenge. His is a swiftness intensified by strength, a majesty magnified by grace. His is a timeless beauty touched with gentleness, a spirit that calls our hearts to dream



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    I've ridden Andalusians in a barn that was purely "classical" to the point of "new age." I've also ridden in very competitive barns. In both I've experienced horses who were taught the upper level movements by top riders.

    If you've ridden it and you have an eye, you can see that Anky's horses are light and free. You can also see that the most of the Lippizans ridden in exhibitions in this country are sucked back and usually not sitting down as they do movements.

    You can ride a horse deep and it won't be heavy, nor will it be behind IF RIDDEN CORRECTLY. The problem in this country is that no one has any experience (usually--not always) on horses that are trained by top international riders. So, what they feel are on horses that are incorrectly trained by other local riders or trainers who don't necessarily know what they are doing.

    Now, do I think all horses need to be ridden deep? Nope. Do I think all riders can ride a horse correctly in a deep frame? No way.

    So, unless you've dived into both ends of a black bottomed pool, don't tell me which one you "think" is deeper. I'll only trust those who have successfully touched bottom (ridden to the FEI levels) when they say one is deeper (better) than the other. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  18. #38
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    Jun. 7, 2000
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    I'm not too smart Jen, could you explain this statement to me please?

    "but so does Monty Roberts and he's the biggest charleton there is."



  19. #39
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    charlatan [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  20. #40
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    Jun. 7, 2000
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    189 Jersey st. Addison VT 05491
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    Oh. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]



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