The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2010
    Posts
    2,464

    Default Intact male acting inappropriately

    This is the first time I've had an intact male past 6 months so I am in uncharted waters.

    Dexter just turned 9 months and from 14 weeks of age he has been heavily socialized with dogs, cats, horses, children, etc. He is a fun and out-going guy who loves everyone he meets.

    Right now he lives with fixed female (~ 70 lbs) and has never once thought about inappropriate behavior. She is sweet but very dominant and he definitely respects her.

    At the dog park he never bothers females and the only time he has tried any sort of humping has been with very submissive neutered males. This behavior only occurred for a week or two around 6 months and after being consistently corrected he completely stopped.

    The Problem:
    My respectful guy disappears whenever I go home to visit my parents. He is really dominant with my parent's female wheaten terrier despite being 1/3 her size. He climbs all over her, growls, drags her around by her neck, and body slams her. She is way too tolerant and either plays with him or ignores her antics. He also follows her incessantly and licks her backside. It is totally disgusting and unacceptable. I can verbally correct him but it stops the behavior for less than a minute. She really doesn't mind but I don't want this to become ingrained behavior.

    What can I do to nip this behavior in the bud? I am afraid that if I allow it with one female then he will think it is acceptable with other submissive females.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2004
    Location
    Posts
    1,078

    Default

    If you know he's going to behave that way, keep him on a leash by your side and correct him when he makes even a hint of that behavior towards her.

    Is there a particular reason he's not neutered? Is that female fixed?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2010
    Posts
    2,464

    Default

    Despite his young age he is doing very well in the conformation ring. He has potential to be competitive nationally so neutering him is definitely not something I am willing to consider.

    The female is a companion only dog and was fixed at 6 months (currently 7 years old).



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    8,796

    Default

    I don't think it's sex, but dominance. I agree with the leash idea, and bet that puts a crimp in his style. And you do have to control him before he runs into the wrong dog, tries this, and gets chewed on up and down like a cob of corn.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2004
    Location
    Posts
    1,078

    Default

    It does sound like dominance issue. In this case I'd keep him on leash or crated around that dog, since your in her territory. I wouldn't ever leave alone and unattended. On leash you should be able to see and correct him before it ever gets started. I would think if you handle it now with a good quick clear correction that it would be less likely to become an issue permenently.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2008
    Posts
    4,538

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    He climbs all over her, growls, drags her around by her neck, and body slams her. She is way too tolerant and either plays with him or ignores her antics. He also follows her incessantly and licks her backside. It is totally disgusting and unacceptable.
    if you are ever going to breed him, keep in mind this is normal male dog behavior and you don't want to squash it totally.

    What can I do to nip this behavior in the bud? I am afraid that if I allow it with one female then he will think it is acceptable with other submissive females.
    in addition to keeping him on lead, you can also/or teach him a very solid recall. At the moment I've got one bitch coming into heat and Conner is very interested in her. He gets to work for some of his breakfast, where I call him away>give a few kibbles>send him back. This morning he refused to go back to her and stayed with me, so we did some sits, some downs and some stays. I found that very acceptable.

    Or, if that is not what you want, then you can also use a verbal and then walk him down. Say the cue word, and immediately walk between them, herding him away>do a sit/down/sit or some other simple chain of behaviors and leave him to try it again. Eventually he will quit bothering her.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
    Location
    Upper Midwest
    Posts
    5,833

    Default

    Leash him so you maintain control.

    Do you have to bring him over there when you visit? Can't you just keep him crated? When my in-laws come to visit and bring dogs their dogs stay in their kennels, and we rotate time in the fenced in back yard. Mainly, because I have kitties I dont' want slaughtered. It isn't the same thing, obviously, but my point is that since their dogs aren't kitty trustworthy, they get crated. I wouldn't expect your parents to crate their female, since she isn't the guest. Show dogs are crated all the time, so I would think he is comfortable crated?

    My friends all have intact males and if they come over with the dogs they stay crated. No dog issues and a lot less wear-and-tear on my house and yard.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,651

    Default

    I agree with the leash/crate theory, and the rough play behavior sounds like he is trying to be dominant over her. But I also wonder if there isn't something about that particular bitch that is *off* and she smells different. Especially considering he already lives with a spayed female.

    One of my dogs had a huge *crush* on an elderly male dog once...it was so odd that he would run away from me to find him at the town golf course where many dog owners would walk their dogs in the winter. I mentioned it to my vet, he said that sometimes particular illnesses can give off weird smells and some dogs confuse them with other smells - like females in season. Is your parents terrier old? I think my vet suggested it might be kidney related.

    But, no matter what, I would agree that you shouldn't allow it. Redirection and/or separating is probably the best idea.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2010
    Posts
    2,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    I agree with the leash/crate theory, and the rough play behavior sounds like he is trying to be dominant over her. But I also wonder if there isn't something about that particular bitch that is *off* and she smells different. Especially considering he already lives with a spayed female.

    One of my dogs had a huge *crush* on an elderly male dog once...it was so odd that he would run away from me to find him at the town golf course where many dog owners would walk their dogs in the winter. I mentioned it to my vet, he said that sometimes particular illnesses can give off weird smells and some dogs confuse them with other smells - like females in season. Is your parents terrier old? I think my vet suggested it might be kidney related.

    But, no matter what, I would agree that you shouldn't allow it. Redirection and/or separating is probably the best idea.
    That is really weird that you mentioned that. The female wheaten had elevated kidney enzymes at 12 weeks when she came home from the breeder. We've monitored her levels over the years and played around with her food. No matter what we've done her levels have stayed elevated but stable. Maybe part of his behavior is tied to her smell.

    Trot: When I visit my parents it's usually for a few days. This time dexter will be staying with them for a week and then he's going out of state for a show. My parents are exceptionally permissive but I think I can talk them into separation and crating him whenever they are out. As long as I keep things simple they should follow through. His co-owner lives very close to them so it is easier to hand him over for shows when he stays with them.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 24, 2003
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
    Posts
    1,114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    But, no matter what, I would agree that you shouldn't allow it. Redirection and/or separating is probably the best idea.
    Yup, this.

    There is NO reason for him to act that way, balls or not. So many people make excuses for intact males (not saying YOU are, just generalizing). They are perfectly capable of acting like "normal" dogs, you just don't allow the stupid crap!
    -Kady



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Sunshine State
    Posts
    2,215

    Default

    Our Flat Coat got to keep his "distal brain tumors" till he was three years old because he was in the conformation ring and his breeder is still half owner. (She owned the back end)

    With owning an intact dog, there should be a much higher level of responsibility. Dino spent a lot of time in training classes learning how to behave. Yes, he was allowed to look at girls, but he was leashed and he had to listen to us. We played lots of "watch me" type of games, and would keep him busy doing simple behaviors like touch, position changes, target work etc. to distract him when we were around a female in heat. Many times he would end up in the ring with a bitch in season (or there was one hanging out at ring side) so he had to learn to ignore it and keep his head in the game....

    That said, it would have been totally unfair to toss him unsupervised into a situation where he was around (or could smell) a female that he perceived to be in season. He would just do what was natural (or get very frustrated trying). It was no good to tell him to "stop", because he'd just go right back to it again in a few minutes. We had to give him something more appropriate to do (keep him working), or physically restrain him in a crate or on a leash. Because there was a chance that he was going to breed, we didn't want him to get the idea that he couldn't court a bitch ever, so we just didn't give him opportunities.

    BTW - In the end, we neutered him as soon as he finished his championship. He's a nice looking boy, but there are plenty with similar/identical pedigrees that are equally nice, and he's just a much happier boy with the hormones out of the equation.
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Sunshine State
    Posts
    2,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by diffuse01 View Post
    Yup, this.

    There is NO reason for him to act that way, balls or not. So many people make excuses for intact males (not saying YOU are, just generalizing). They are perfectly capable of acting like "normal" dogs, you just don't allow the stupid crap!

    Agreed - Intact should not be an excuse for peeing on things or acting overly aggressive.

    Breeding behavior is normal and to be expected, but the dog should also be able to listen and work in spite of distraction.
    The rebel in the grey shirt



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2010
    Location
    Texarkana, AR
    Posts
    1,661

    Default

    If your dog is constantly licking your parents' dog's rear, your parents may need to get their dog checked for a vaginal/urinary infection or anal gland problems. While I do agree that an intact male should have manners, if you do want to use him at stud eventually, your corrections shouldn't be overly harsh. Separation of the two is probably your best bet.

    I am not a big proponent of neutering males. I really don't think that neutering corrects behavior problems and there is a growing body of evidence that neutering can cause health problems. By the time he has finished his championship, his behaviors will, for the most part, be fixed so neutering will not have much affect on them. It really isn't hard for a responsible owner to manage an intact male dog.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2010
    Posts
    2,464

    Default

    Didn't even realize this got bumped back up.



    Right before I left town I noticed the female had a small cyst that opened up and was draining. I gave her a bath, cleaned and treated the drainage site, and also gave her a sanitary clip for good measures. Within a few hours he settled down markedly. He is still following her around a bit but now he is giving her a two to three foot buffer which is a big enough improvement that I am okay with that for now.


    I don't know how much I believe that some dogs are "nursers" but I do think that my guy has a very sensitive nose and a strong desire to go after cuts and drainage and such. She has enough of a coat that a small finger nail sized spot was hard to spot. Obviously he needs to learn to give other dogs a bigger bubble but I think it is really confusing to him because she literally gives no physical sign that she is annoyed by his following or rough play.

    He is being crated whenever he cannot be supervised and I'll continue to work with him when I go pick him up. I keep hoping that I'll get lucky and she'll flip him and pin him because I know that a dog's reaction time for correction is much quicker than mine. I know that the sooner I can establish appropriate boundaries the easier it will be for him but it's really hard when one dog doesn't follow the rules and he learns that rude behavior is acceptable in some circumstances.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
    Location
    Pottstown, PA (East Coventry)
    Posts
    3,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wireweiners View Post
    If your dog is constantly licking your parents' dog's rear, your parents may need to get their dog checked for a vaginal/urinary infection or anal gland problems. While I do agree that an intact male should have manners, if you do want to use him at stud eventually, your corrections shouldn't be overly harsh. Separation of the two is probably your best bet.
    Both my neutered male dogs got REALLY interested in licking my spayed female's rear. They had both lived with her for a minimum of 2.5 years before that. It turned out she did have a urinary infection. Couple of days of antibiotics and they stopped.
    Oh, well, clearly you're not thoroughly indoctrinated to COTH yet, because finger pointing and drawing conclusions are the cornerstones of this great online community. (Tidy Rabbit)



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2010
    Location
    Texarkana, AR
    Posts
    1,661

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    Didn't even realize this got bumped back up.

    I don't know how much I believe that some dogs are "nursers" but I do think that my guy has a very sensitive nose and a strong desire to go after cuts and drainage and such. She has enough of a coat that a small finger nail sized spot was hard to spot. Obviously he needs to learn to give other dogs a bigger bubble but I think it is really confusing to him because she literally gives no physical sign that she is annoyed by his following or rough play.

    .
    I once had a male standard smooth dachshund that I swore was a doctor or nurse in a former life. If anyone had a "booboo", including me, he would lick and clean it. Only a dog person would say this but dog spit is really soothing to itchy chigger bites. I once had a mole on the back of my calf checked by my doctor because Wheeler kept licking at it and I had heard that dogs can smell skin cancers. It was nothing, just a mole.



Similar Threads

  1. How do you decide which ones to keep intact?
    By Samotis in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Aug. 31, 2012, 01:49 PM
  2. Is this guy worth keeping intact?
    By Real Rush in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: Mar. 20, 2012, 01:28 PM
  3. Keeping an Intact Male Dog
    By GraceLikeRain in forum The Menagerie
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: Feb. 11, 2012, 04:44 PM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: May. 4, 2010, 09:43 AM
  5. Replies: 4
    Last Post: Nov. 10, 2009, 12:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •