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  1. #1

    Default who pays for what??

    I have a horse that has been out on a lease with trainer for some time...... it's time for him to be sold, could you all please advise me on how this usually works re: commission, paying for the advertising, etc?? In a couple of "testing the waters conversations" it sounds like I'm expected to pay all up front for the advertising, showing costs, etc, AND pay a large % for commission, whereas in my thoughts, I assumed the commission would cover all of that, ?????



  2. #2
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    If the horse is with the trainer and you are paying board, generally the commission is 10% plus all other expenses, boarding, training, advertisement, shows, farrier, vet, just as if you just own the horse, which you do.

    If the horse sells, many western trainers will split the commission with the trainer involved on the other end, the trainer of the buyer.

    In some sale barns, the commission can go up to 15%, so yes, ask in front.

    If you don't like the terms in that barn, look for another or you yourself do the advertising, showing the horse, etc.

    I doubt that you can get the same higher price a trainer can get, showing the horse in the right place to the right people, that trust the horse being what is supposed to be.



  3. #3
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    What were the terms of the lease? Was there any provision for future sales in the lease? If not, then I'd assume that that contract with the trainer is done, and you are starting fresh. So negotiate fresh - state what you're willing to pay for, and what you're willing to pay the trainer for, and get ready to haggle. It's all about what's agreed upon by both parties, IME.

    JMO.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  4. #4
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    there were no lease terms.... horse went for finishing, that evolved into being used in lessons and showing, and now is half leased to a rider...

    he's winning everything, and it's time for him to go on the market, at the top of his game, so to speak.

    I guess I was asking as I was starting to feel taken advantage of-- trainer has not "shared" any of the $$ the gelding has been bringing in, which I do feel is fair and right, I just wasn't feeling like I should be paying for all the costs of selling AND paying a 15 - 20% commisson



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by balancedseat09 View Post
    there were no lease terms.... horse went for finishing, that evolved into being used in lessons and showing, and now is half leased to a rider...

    he's winning everything, and it's time for him to go on the market, at the top of his game, so to speak.

    I guess I was asking as I was starting to feel taken advantage of-- trainer has not "shared" any of the $$ the gelding has been bringing in, which I do feel is fair and right, I just wasn't feeling like I should be paying for all the costs of selling AND paying a 15 - 20% commisson
    Bring that up with the trainer, see that you both agree on the same terms and that you want the horse sold NOW.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by balancedseat09 View Post
    there were no lease terms.... horse went for finishing, that evolved into being used in lessons and showing, and now is half leased to a rider...

    he's winning everything, and it's time for him to go on the market, at the top of his game, so to speak.

    I guess I was asking as I was starting to feel taken advantage of-- trainer has not "shared" any of the $$ the gelding has been bringing in, which I do feel is fair and right, I just wasn't feeling like I should be paying for all the costs of selling AND paying a 15 - 20% commisson
    What are you getting out of that deal right now?

    I understand that the horse's value is increasing but, your trainer seems to be living out of your pony expenses for more than the 'finishing' training that was supposed to be done at first. Was the pony supposed to be for sale after/during the finishing training period?

    And adding 15 to 20% more for commission? That would be a bit over the top for me at this point.

    But really, it depends on what you want to pay and what you want to get for that pony.



  7. #7
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by balancedseat09 View Post
    there were no lease terms.... horse went for finishing, that evolved into being used in lessons and showing, and now is half leased to a rider...
    So, let me get this straight; you've paid trainer for "finishing", while your horse was being used for lessons (making trainer money), being shown by lesson students (making trainer more money), and half leased to a rider (making trainer yet more money), and now trainer wants you to pay for everything?

    he's winning everything, and it's time for him to go on the market, at the top of his game, so to speak.
    "Winning everything" being shown by trainer, or students? Much more valuable if winning with students, but you know that already.

    I guess I was asking as I was starting to feel taken advantage of-- trainer has not "shared" any of the $$ the gelding has been bringing in, which I do feel is fair and right, I just wasn't feeling like I should be paying for all the costs of selling AND paying a 15 - 20% commisson
    Well, not trying to be rude, but you've already been taken advantage of by trainer, for what sounds like quite some time, for a good amount of money. The lease fee and show lease fees should have gone to you, not trainer. I think I'd be figuring that up and presenting trainer with a figure to be deducted from his/her commission, unless s/he wants to pay it up front.
    Then write up an agreement stating what commission you will pay, and what you expect to get for it. Also include what expenses/responsibilities you will bear, and what trainer is expected to do for her commission. Then present to trainer and let the haggling begin.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by alibi_18 View Post
    What are you getting out of that deal right now?

    I understand that the horse's value is increasing but, your trainer seems to be living out of your pony expenses for more than the 'finishing' training that was supposed to be done at first. Was the pony supposed to be for sale after/during the finishing training period?

    And adding 15 to 20% more for commission? That would be a bit over the top for me at this point.

    But really, it depends on what you want to pay and what you want to get for that pony.
    Not necessarily. I have a mare with a trainer right now. She is going to give her back to me after some 'seasoning'. I had her in full training for a decent period of time and then she was able to lease the horse to a rider in her barn.

    So I went from paying full training board to paying nothing while the horse is still under the supervision of the trainer and is still getting rides by the trainer. I feel this trainer has done me a huge favor, she has basically figured out way to get miles on my horse for me at no cost.

    I told her that if she could get someone to pay her for the lease agreement then that was ok by me. I have no problem with this woman, who has done so right by this horse, making a few bucks off her if she can.

    And while I have no intention of selling her, I would certainly expect to pay a full commission to her to do so. She is the one who has added the value to the horse and has found her excellent riders capable of bringing her along. Why would she not be entitled to be paid?



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    Not necessarily. I have a mare with a trainer right now. She is going to give her back to me after some 'seasoning'. I had her in full training for a decent period of time and then she was able to lease the horse to a rider in her barn.

    So I went from paying full training board to paying nothing while the horse is still under the supervision of the trainer and is still getting rides by the trainer. I feel this trainer has done me a huge favor, she has basically figured out way to get miles on my horse for me at no cost.
    Lucky you. The OP has been paying for training, and the trainer has been not only using the horse for lessons and letting students show it, but half leased it to one student - that's three separate sources of income that the trainer is getting from a horse she's being paid to train. I don't understand how you can equate that with your situation. Apples and oranges.

    I told her that if she could get someone to pay her for the lease agreement then that was ok by me. I have no problem with this woman, who has done so right by this horse, making a few bucks off her if she can.
    And again, completely different situation from the OP.

    And while I have no intention of selling her, I would certainly expect to pay a full commission to her to do so. She is the one who has added the value to the horse and has found her excellent riders capable of bringing her along. Why would she not be entitled to be paid?
    No one is arguing that the trainer shouldn't be paid a commission. The OP just doesn't want to get screwed out of any more money, AND pay a 20-25% commission on top of it. I don't blame her. She has every right to investigate what's reasonable and customary and present alternatives to the trainer that don't include her getting taken advantage of.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  10. #10
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    I read this quickly so may have missed something...Sounds like you have two issues:

    1. Horse is being "leased" at least part time by what is apparently a decent rider, if said horse is doing well. The lease is not between owner (you) and rider?
    2. Trainer is charging you board, show fees, training, etc and eventually a commission to sell horse. (in addition to receiving lease fees?)

    You need to get both parts of the equation on paper, separately.

    If rider wants to lease the horse FROM YOU, document the arrangement and agree on what rider will pay. (I had this arrangement some years ago - needed a horse to ride, leased a sales prospect, showed, did well and ultimately the horse got sold. My agreement was w/ horse owner. Worked fine.)

    Then haggle w/ the trainer over the sales agreement. But board, trainer rides, general care, etc are your costs as are reasonable show fees.

    And I sure wouldn't have any horse of mine that is showing well and is for sale, being used for lessons...
    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........



  11. #11
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    Esg, I did not see that OP said she was paying for horse after training. You assumed it, but she never said it(nor did she say she paid for training for that matter). Or am I misreading?



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chall View Post
    Esg, I did not see that OP said she was paying for horse after training. You assumed it, but she never said it(nor did she say she paid for training for that matter). Or am I misreading?
    See below. Especially this:

    Quote Originally Posted by balancedseat09 View Post
    I have a horse that has been out on a lease with trainer for some time...... it's time for him to be sold, could you all please advise me on how this usually works re: commission, paying for the advertising, etc?? In a couple of "testing the waters conversations" it sounds like I'm expected to pay all up front for the advertising, showing costs, etc, AND pay a large % for commission, whereas in my thoughts, I assumed the commission would cover all of that, ?????
    Add that to the fact that trainer has been being paid by OP, using horse for lessons and getting paid for that, letting students show horse and charging for that, and half leasing to another student and charging for that - without sharing any of the lesson, show rental or half lease monies with OP. To my mind, that's stealing. If trainer now expects to be paid for showing, advertising, etc etc on horse plus a 20-25% commission? Umm, no. Just because OP has decided to sell trainer's cash cow horse, doesn't mean trainer gets to quadruple dip.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  13. #13
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    With a standard 10% commission the owner of the horse should pay for all advertising, photography, production of sales videos, showing costs, and of course board and training, vet and farrier. That is standard.

    One thing that is not clear, OP, have you been paying board and training, vet and farrier all along on this horse? Or have you been paying nothing with the agreement that the trainer could recover costs by using the horse as a school horse or leasing it out? If you have been paying nothing all along and now want to sell the horse I can see where the trainer is asking for a larger commission than 10%.

    Your options as I see it would be to negotiate with your current trainer or move the horse to a different trainer and start from scratch with a more standard deal with less variables.



  14. #14
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    I stopped paying board/training two years ago when the gelding was first leased. I pay vet and shoes, just the basics for both. I do agree that having him at this stable has been beneficial, and his value has definitely increased by being there.

    I just felt a bit taken advantage of when the discussions to sell started and I was informed that I would be expected to pay all selling costs up front, ie: advertising, etc. AND possibly 20% commission...... the commission is based on the final sales price. I honestly was under the impression that the commission would cover the advertising.

    Reading all the comments, I see that it's not unusual for the owner to pay all the selling costs, so I am grateful to all that posted a reply.



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