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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    17

    Unhappy Legality of ownership

    I had a colt given to me for pay for barn work. Now the barn owner put it in the barn, locked it up, and wouldn't allow me to have it. She sent it away on a trailer. She told the police she gave it to a friend. I have the registration papers in my name , vet boll receipts, farrier receipts. The cops tell me it not enough. I filed suit at magistrate, but it will not get my horse back only money. I want my horse back. Does any know my rights?
    Last edited by lconroe; Jun. 6, 2012 at 04:31 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Oh man. Did you sign a contract/bill of sale? If you don't have anything on paper with both signatures that explains everything, you are most likely out of luck. I'm sorry this has happened to you!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    17

    Default

    No. Nothing signed,just verbal with a 73 year old lady who was like my Mom.. I didn't see a need.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 26, 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    5,214

    Default

    Mistake number one. Sorry you had to learn that the hard way. I'd still try to speak to an attorney.

    Please keep us updated.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    17

    Default

    The registrations papers with KMSHA with a dna sample don't mean anything??



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2008
    Posts
    4,589

    Default

    Are you in the US, Iconroe? The word "magistrate" made me think you aren't. If that's the case, your laws might be different than ours. But here, no, registration papers or DNA don't mean a thing without a bill of sale or a written contract.

    I'm so sorry.
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Yes in US penna.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2004
    Location
    Rixeyville, VA
    Posts
    6,734

    Default

    You are best off going to the magistrate and seeking money. Perhaps the horse will be returned rather than paying you a sum of money.

    As everyone said, ALWAYS get a bill of sale that is signed by both the buyer and seller. Never, ever take anyone's word as a substitute. I don't care if it is your mother, sister, best friend, employer.....when conducting business, do it in a business like manner.

    I just sold a trailer this morning. I signed the title and the buyer and I both signed bills of sale, one of her and one for me. The bill of sale is not required, but I always provide one.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2011
    Posts
    233

    Default

    Next time...even if it IS your MOM....GET IT IN WRIGHTING!!!



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2010
    Location
    Glastonbury, CT
    Posts
    15

    Default

    What is her reasoning behind taking it back? Was she unhappy about the work that you did? How long was the colt in your possession before she took it back? Did she sign the registration papers over to you? If she did I would think that would prove she intended on transferring ownership over to you.
    Hillside Stable LLC
    Glastonbury, CT

    http://www.HillsideStable.net



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    43,135

    Default

    Your name in the registration papers only means at some time you may have owned the horse.
    There are many horses out there no one transferred the papers, but still own the horse.
    A registration certificate is not legal proof of ownership.

    You needed a bill of sale, even on a gift horse, to be able to prove a horse is yours.
    If you don't have one and want the horse, contact an attorney where you are, the laws about such are different in each state.

    Hope you get your horse back and learn a very important lesson, to always have your paperwork in order, including a properly signed bill of sale, if just for $1 or whatever the law where you are requires.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
    Posts
    15,797

    Default

    Is it troll season already?
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Napanee ON
    Posts
    4,367

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    Not sure a yearling is the best choice for a 5 year old.

    It sounds like she was unhappy with your work. Did you comply to your agreement of work completely?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2008
    Location
    Where The Snow Flies
    Posts
    2,602

    Default

    Yep, sounds like the old lady saw an inexperienced, easy target to be able to get free labor. The horse world is full of shady people. With time and experience, you should be able to weed them out.

    I had a horse stolen once and it was a nasty, ugly fight to get her back. I needed help from friends. Mine became a legal investigation and the DA was involved because the person that had her - a notoriously shady horse dealer - had lots of marks against him. With enough pressure, we got him to relent and I got my horse back. He was *this close* to being hit with multiple fines for transporting horses without a DOT license and also the state ag dept was going to sanction him for transporting horses without coggins.

    Sadly, his MO is that he preys on novice horse people. People who aren't in the "know" enough to be able to understand that he's a snake. He's still in business but, man, I tried my best to run him out of this area.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lconroe View Post
    I filed for the registration papers he is only 1 year old. Her name is on nothing only that she has the mother of him. She has no reasoning only says I renigged on my deal of barn chores. If that was the case then she should have just told us to put him somewhere not on her farm, which I would have. And I still went to do chores twice a day and cleaned at least 3 to 6 pens per day among other things. I have had the colt for 7 months and did all the training on him. He did not like her and tried to kick her when she entered his pen, thats why she didn't want him. The registration cost me $115 and no she never paid for any vets or the papers or his feed for the last month. She supplied and outdoor corral and hay.@ESG she is much worse than a troll, she has really hurt myself my 5 year old grandson and husband. Blaze was to be a 4-H project for my grandson and he can't understand why she did this. I don't myself..
    I'm sorry, but there is nothing you can do without a bill of sale or contract. Next time, have something in writing!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2005
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    4,182

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    I have no idea what the registry in question requires, but I know when I did the original registration on my girl, because I was not the breeder, I had to send in a form that was a transfer of ownership for an unregistered foal. That form indicated that she was being sold to me by her breeder on x date, etc. If your registry required such a thing, a copy of that may help your case, as it would clearly indicate the owner/breeder turned over ownership to you.
    Proud member of the EDRF



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,278

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kementari View Post
    I have no idea what the registry in question requires, but I know when I did the original registration on my girl, because I was not the breeder, I had to send in a form that was a transfer of ownership for an unregistered foal. That form indicated that she was being sold to me by her breeder on x date, etc. If your registry required such a thing, a copy of that may help your case, as it would clearly indicate the owner/breeder turned over ownership to you.
    i presume you have over there simular to us i uk as trading standards

    here we have our horses past ported and micro chipped as proof of owner
    and any medical issues /jabs etc go on the passport so that one can track his movements if at shows or sold the new owner has to re apply for the by sending in his passport under the old owners addy details etc

    you said you worked for him- at any time by pay as this is a taxable earning if in a wage did she/he give you a wage packet with any deductions for leiu of payment for the colt - this is evidence if she did

    you should go to the police - even though they cant do anything you can ask for a hold of the horse until proof of ownership
    the horse will then be en pounded noramally at a rescue center until both parties have been resloves of who owns what - vets fees and insurance paid for the for the time you had him also helps as this proves he was in your care

    but - you said this

    I filed for the registration papers he is only 1 year old. Her name is on nothing only that she has the mother of him.

    did you check its actual his mother

    She has no reasoning only says I renigged on my deal of barn chores.
    explain yourself - mate if you looked afetr him whilse doing chores then hats just it, unless deductions in wage packet for him- cheap labour gives you a horse to train and handle ready to be sold

    If that was the case then she should have just told us to put him somewhere not on her farm, which I would have.

    she wouldnt do that - as its money to feed a any horse and trian it and your there doing her work as chores and handling him for her as in chores unless deduction in wage packet for lieu of him for feed vets, stable , or in your case coral etc

    And I still went to do chores twice a day and cleaned at least 3 to 6 pens per day among other things. I have had the colt for 7 months and did all the training on him.
    so now you know what not to do------- get a job get a wage do do things for people for nothing or on a promise of xyz your an adult be wiser

    He did not like her and tried to kick her when she entered his pen

    so you say - but she went into to get him to be sold so at some point she must of shown him of to someone as a sale

    , thats why she didn't want him


    be grown up - he was always for sale thats why she bred him


    . The registration cost me $115 and no she never paid for any vets or the papers or his feed for the last month.

    then use this as proof to trading standards or small claims court tel plod and file a claim as this is you owning the horse

    lets be clear ------- owner is the person who owns him if its lease then you would be the keeper of said horse as you have kept him in food vets and trained him
    if she told you he was for sale then and shes not paid you
    properly then send her a bill
    for your time your cost, and the amount of triaining

    hence why this sounds more like a lease as you have been told you can only have money but

    like i said take it to police and ask them for small claims court or trading standards
    She supplied and outdoor corral and hay.

    see part owner ship she paid for his hay and stabling - again this is leasing not owning


    @ESG she is much worse than a troll, she has really hurt myself my 5 year old grandson and husband. Blaze was to be a 4-H project for my grandson and he can't understand why she did this. I don't myself..


    dont be silly a colt or horse that young with a 5yrs old kid of a 4h pony club
    look at something smaller like 12.2hs and about 10 whos been there and done it

    and dont work for nothing again learn your lesson and dont lease but own the horse



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 3, 2011
    Posts
    47

    Default

    I feel for you Iconroe. I see this sort of thing happen all of the damned time and I find it despicable. People ripping each other off for a few bucks. It is really sad how business warps people into these wretched jack asses who will lie to and cheat people.

    The worst ones are the guys who try to prey on people who have poor mathematical skills. The saddest part is how many people fall for this type of scam.
    Last edited by asparwhite; May. 27, 2012 at 04:36 AM.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2012
    Posts
    17

    Default

    You sound like your related to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goes like stink!! I don't need your advice thanks
    Last edited by lconroe; May. 27, 2012 at 10:49 AM. Reason: Added somthing



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Qc
    Posts
    3,153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lconroe View Post
    You sound like your related to her!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Goes like stink!! I don't need your advice thanks
    Actually, I think GLS may have hit a nail on something.

    And NO, a colt is not a good match for a 5yrs old 4-H club project.

    And really, if this is a colt, there is really no big need of "training" but some usual handling and nipping in the bud bad behaviors.

    Were you working off your board and hay for the past 7months?



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