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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Because that's completely normal???
    Delaware has very corporate-friendly laws.

    A very great many organizations incorporate in Delaware even though they do all of their business elsewhere.
    As a public school teacher in California, I resent hearing about people who could perfectly afford paying taxes in CA incorporating elsewhere to save money, when so much of their money is earned in this state.

    We are losing half our teachers next year when class sizes go up. We will no longer have a librarian or a nurse.

    You love living here? Pay your taxes.
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.



  2. #22
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    Populist journalism over the last 30 years has resulted in a climate of tremendous resentment directed at anyone viewed as a member of an "elite;" not only equestrian sports devotees, but the upper class in general. Not that we officially HAVE an upper class, you understand. Or so goes the myth!

    Jackie Kennedy lived during the last days of High Society, when the aspiring middle classes looked to those of her ilk as arbiters of taste and breeding. Now, due in part to the influence of the entertainment industry, our "elites" are more than likely to have messy lives, repulsive "style," and a notable lack of manners.

    C'est dommage.



  3. #23
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    Jul. 14, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHorseProblem View Post
    As a public school teacher in California, I resent hearing about people who could perfectly afford paying taxes in CA incorporating elsewhere to save money, when so much of their money is earned in this state.

    We are losing half our teachers next year when class sizes go up. We will no longer have a librarian or a nurse.

    You love living here? Pay your taxes.
    One daughter lives next to San Jose, one of the 30 plus sanctuary cities in California. The things she observes first hand frustrate her and her husband beyond words.

    As for the article, that was a typical political shot. That is Ann's $$ to spend as she wants.



  4. #24
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    Sep. 21, 2007
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    OK, so firstly, Ms. Romney can spend her money however she likes. Good for her to love dressage. (I do not support any of her husband's views, but that's totally beside the point.)
    Calling dressage fussy, well, it might be to the uninitiated. Still not good journalism.

    "Dressage is not for the faint of wallet; it requires healthy outlays of cash for upkeep, training, transportation and veterinary care."

    That, sadly, is true, and for those of us who are making it work without being part of the billionaire crowd...

    " It attracts some of the world's richest people — the daughter of billionaire New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg competes. Yahoo co-founder Jerry Yang and his wife own dressage horses."

    ... makes it a bit tougher to get to the Olympics. As a rider or sponsor of an Olympic horse and rider. But at least my horse didn't get tipped over in the flight container. How horrible.
    "Reite dein Pferd vorwärts und richte es gerade.” Gustav Steinbrecht



  5. #25
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    actually, I think a lot of the comments are spot on. If the Obama girls were riding dressage, the reporter would likely be touting all the health benefits.
    The media today are nothing but whores to ratings. They will do whatever they can to get more readers, more watchers whatever. It's not about the news anymore and reporting the truth. It's really pretty sad.



  6. #26
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Has Bloomberg's daughter switched to dressage after her accident or is the article less than accurate?
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  7. #27
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    Nov. 1, 2001
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    Default Not that most horse businesses make a profit, lol

    As a job creating business owner in California who tries any legal means to avoid paying California's business punishing taxes, I can tell you there is no tax benefit to being incorporated in Delaware.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  8. #28
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    Oct. 13, 2006
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    The dressage economy needs ALL of the supporters, however the "moneyed" do and have kept this sport alive at the top level. Just a fact.

    Regardless of politics I support the supporters of this sport unless they give me a reason not to.

    Liberty is the gift of independence to pursue such things as dressage, or other dreams and passions.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwr View Post
    As a job creating business owner in California who tries any legal means to avoid paying California's business punishing taxes, I can tell you there is no tax benefit to being incorporated in Delaware.
    http://www.florida-corporations-onli...porations.html
    Charter member of the I-Refuse-to-Relinquish-My-Whip Clique



  10. #30
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Michigan
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Has Bloomberg's daughter switched to dressage after her accident or is the article less than accurate?
    Don't you know all horse sports are the same thing? (How many of us have been asked if we have racehorses/going to ride in the Kentucky Derby?) It involves a horse, right? Ergo it's the same.

    And of course it's just out to show how EEEEEEVIL the Romneys are and how RICH they are. Same old bitter, stewing envious people. If Michelle Obama (who made more in a year at her non-job, where they never replaced her once she quit to be First Lady, than I have in ten years) were riding, it would be about how healthy and wholesome a sport it is. They basically looked up that horses cost a lot and Ann Romney does it, therefore it's something evil rich people do.



  11. #31
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    Jan. 12, 2000
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    Proud owner of one Lunar acre! (Campanus Crater, The Moon)
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    *yawn* What a silly topic, and an even more ridiculous article. Keep feeding the machine. The tail is definitely wagging the dog in this country if this is news, and can cause people to take sides.

    Boring.
    "Relinquish your whip!!"



  12. #32
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    Nov. 1, 2001
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    Default California has thought long and hard about taxes.

    suzy, good info but it applies to Delaware, not California.

    If you own a home in California (as the Romney's do) and spend more than 14 days in California, you are considered a resident of California. "Residency" is a key issue. If you are a non-resident, then you can work in California for limited periods. You become a non-resident when your domicile is moved. There is a Safe Harbor provision that says that once that domicile is established outside California for 546 days, you are a non-resident. Inside that period, you have to be able to demonstrate that your domicile has changed -- if challenged.

    If you receive W2 wages from a CA company for work conducted in CA, you risk being considered a full or part-time resident.

    If you receive W2 wages from a CA company for work conducted outside CA, then these wages would be taxable in the state in which you reside.

    If you receive K-1 income from a CA company, the rules are complex, but generally if you are a non-resident, this income is taxable in the state in which you reside.

    So basically, there are four possibilities:

    1. Full-time CA resident
    2. Full-time non-resident
    3. Part-time CA resident
    4. Split residency (one spouse is non-resident)

    Part-time residents and split residency are apportioned tax obligations based on the amount of time spent in the state.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  13. #33
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    May. 6, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    Has Bloomberg's daughter switched to dressage after her accident or is the article less than accurate?
    It's the same sloppy reporting done in the ABC piece recently, except that Robin Abcarian spelled the Jerry Yang's name right (except it's not him, but his wife Akiko who owns Ravel among others.

    nhwr, thanks for the correction. But why incorporate in Delaware?
    2012 goal: learn to ride like a Barn Rat

    A helmet saved my life.



  14. #34
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    Nov. 20, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy View Post
    I hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of this earned money was earned at terrible expense to others and the environment. Yes, there is nothing wrong with striving for a better life--I do--but not if it's going to hurt others.

    Also, the very wealthy make contributions because they NEED to. They have so much money that it will just go to the tax man otherwise. Sadly, most are not nearly as philanthropic as we'd like to think. They bask in the attention they get from giving $10M to a college or medical center that will have their name on it. Although this is a tremendous amount of money to the majority of us, it's chump change to those who are worth anywhere from $500M on up. Sorry to sound so jaded, but I work in an environment where we are dealing with top tier donors on a daily basis.
    No bubble is burst here. I know first-hand how corporate taxation works. I'm an executive in a family oil and gas company.

    Here is how taxation and so called "environmental expense" works.

    We are taxed at over 50% of profit for state and federal taxes. If we have one signature out of place on an EPA document with no EPA violation, it's a $5000 fine. We have regulations from the BLM, MMS, and numerous other government agencies that want their cut, their fee, etc, etc. or some other small "tax" to add to their pot. Our company produces jobs for 17 field employees and 7 office staff...I process over 700 invoices a month...which all equate to jobs for mostly Mom and Pop companies that wouldn't be able to survive if we didn't provide them work. Those individuals pay taxes to their school districts, counties, etc. They spend their money in local restaurants, shops and grocery stores...it all trickles down into the economy.

    Yes, the wealthy need to make contributions...because the taxes for most businesses would be outrageous. Industries are hit constantly with new regulations that while not considered taxes, still go into the government pot. If MOST corporations didn't have a way to have a tax break...they would have to either close up shop or lay off workers.

    If you want to blame someone...blame the government for their excessive waste.

    I'm sorry, but I'm tired of watching people work hard to earn their money at all levels, only to have the government take more of it away to give to those "less fortunate". When a lot of those "less fortunate" people could go out and get a job, but won't because they make more money off of welfare or unemployment...so there is no incentive. I'm tired of hearing about corporations who are supplying real jobs be demonized and called evil because they are striving to make a profit.

    How about this...since we are all so priviledged to have horses and ride dressage...why don't we give away our animals to someone else who desires them...that's what it is coming down to. Before long, it's not just the mega-wealthy that are going to be penalized.
    Unashamed Member of the Dressage Arab Clique
    CRAYOLA POSSE= Thistle



  15. #35
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    nhwr, thanks for the correction. But why incorporate in Delaware?
    My guess would be #7 on suzy's link;

    "Incorporating in Delaware also has legal advantages, for Delaware corporations receive the benefit of having Delaware's renowned Court of Chancery, a business court system solely specializing in corporate law. Consequently, Delaware corporations can rely upon a well-established body of law, providing predictable legal decisions."
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.



  16. #36
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    Jun. 20, 2009
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    Hunterdon County NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy View Post
    Really? Who are these people to whom you are referring? I can't think of any moneyed few who are helping me or any of my friends or acquaintances. In fact, I think you have it backwards. I think it's the adult ammies, filling the ranks at the non-FEI levels that are supporting the moneyed few. Shows could not exist otherwise.
    Yeah... I'm kinda thinking that might be more accurate.

    The wide base of the pyramid holds up the top. Not the other way around.



  17. #37
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    Jun. 7, 2006
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    Yes, Delaware has a great deal of well established case law etc etc so the question, "What happens if we do x?" is much more predictable in Delaware. They are also easier than a lot of states to deal with in terms of filing and so on.

    They are MORE EXPENSIVE than many other states (NY being one of them, if you can believe that NY managed to be less expensive than somewhere else) because they have a franchise tax and require a registered agent but people choose to incorporate there because of the above. They pay extra for convenience and predictability.

    I would assume Delaware corporations still have to register in CA as foreign corps and pay the associated taxes/fees if they want to do business in CA.



  18. #38
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    Jun. 20, 2006
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    Ft. Collins, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blkarab View Post
    No bubble is burst here. I know first-hand how corporate taxation works. I'm an executive in a family oil and gas company.

    Here is how taxation and so called "environmental expense" works.

    We are taxed at over 50% of profit for state and federal taxes. If we have one signature out of place on an EPA document with no EPA violation, it's a $5000 fine. We have regulations from the BLM, MMS, and numerous other government agencies that want their cut, their fee, etc, etc. or some other small "tax" to add to their pot. Our company produces jobs for 17 field employees and 7 office staff...I process over 700 invoices a month...which all equate to jobs for mostly Mom and Pop companies that wouldn't be able to survive if we didn't provide them work. Those individuals pay taxes to their school districts, counties, etc. They spend their money in local restaurants, shops and grocery stores...it all trickles down into the economy.

    Yes, the wealthy need to make contributions...because the taxes for most businesses would be outrageous. Industries are hit constantly with new regulations that while not considered taxes, still go into the government pot. If MOST corporations didn't have a way to have a tax break...they would have to either close up shop or lay off workers.

    If you want to blame someone...blame the government for their excessive waste.

    I'm sorry, but I'm tired of watching people work hard to earn their money at all levels, only to have the government take more of it away to give to those "less fortunate". When a lot of those "less fortunate" people could go out and get a job, but won't because they make more money off of welfare or unemployment...so there is no incentive. I'm tired of hearing about corporations who are supplying real jobs be demonized and called evil because they are striving to make a profit.

    How about this...since we are all so priviledged to have horses and ride dressage...why don't we give away our animals to someone else who desires them...that's what it is coming down to. Before long, it's not just the mega-wealthy that are going to be penalized.
    Thanks for the reality check. Here is a good analysis of the article:
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journal...-Romney-Horses
    Last edited by AZ Native; May. 22, 2012 at 05:03 PM. Reason: added info.



  19. #39
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    Bikarb, I'm afraid I don't understand. You say you are taxed 50% on your profits. Profit would be, simplistically, what is left over after all of your expenses. How does that affect whether your company is able to stay in business or cause it to lay off workers? I assume you and your family manage to pay yourselves a decent salary. We're talking PROFITS, not income.

    As far as the article...thanks to the internet and cutbacks at print media operations...that's what we get. Poor reporting, poor research, and opinion pieces parading as reporting. It's the dumbing down of America. Most people don't bother to fact check, rumors are repeated as fact. Politicians lie. So much for U.S. exceptionalism.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #40
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    Oct. 13, 2006
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    Yes, coth, your right what was I thinking It couldn't be the people dumping 100's of 1000's of dollars into the sport that are keeping the dressage economy afloat here in America.

    What do you think of when I say dressage economy?

    I think of trainers, grooms, breeders, not to mention the fair market on dressage horses...

    It couldn't possibly be the wealthy that invest the most into our sports economy

    The average joe middle class has become such a lame excuse for martydom.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



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