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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2000
    Location
    LI & KY
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    462

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    At a LIHSAA meeting held just after Christmas, it was passed that LIHSAA points will, as of this year, be tabulated by only considering a competitor's top 20 horse shows. In the past it was based on total accumulation for the entire year. It was explained that most don't even do 20 shows and that some divisions are being won by riders who do 40 or more. This new idea was introduced to even the playing field. So do any of you have any thoughts on this subject?
    \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2000
    Location
    LI & KY
    Posts
    462

    Default

    At a LIHSAA meeting held just after Christmas, it was passed that LIHSAA points will, as of this year, be tabulated by only considering a competitor's top 20 horse shows. In the past it was based on total accumulation for the entire year. It was explained that most don't even do 20 shows and that some divisions are being won by riders who do 40 or more. This new idea was introduced to even the playing field. So do any of you have any thoughts on this subject?
    \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2000
    Location
    LI & KY
    Posts
    462

    Default

    I see there have been 33 hits on this thread- Let's get some feedback here!!
    \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
    Location
    Stony Brook
    Posts
    81

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    Since an end of the year award is based on a cumulative score thoughout the year, how can we switch to a top 20???? How is this going to affect the Long Island shows, especially the winter ones if you can catch 20 shows easily in the nice warm weather of summer. No one will go to a winter show. I thought the LIHSAA was supposed to "promote" Long Island show??
    It seems to me this rule helps only those riders who show off Long Island during the year but want to win the end of the year by joining the race halfway through. It doesn't seem fair.undefined



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2000
    Location
    Now In the Sandhills, NC mostly
    Posts
    6,784

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    i dont know what it means...sorry!
    fw

    Always,
    FairWeather
    http://www.fairweather.bizland.com/entrance.html



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
    Location
    Stony Brook
    Posts
    81

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    This subject was brought up at a LIPHA meeting several months ago and at that time it was voted a BIG NO!!!! The local trainers and the few riders there were strongly against it. The LIHSAA awards is supposed to be for riders who compete throughout the year on Long Island. If you choose to go to Old Salem, New Jersey or Florida, more power to you, but that means you don't get Long Island points. I don't think it's fair for my customers to work hard all year showing at close to 60 horse shows to lose out on an end of the year award to someone who catchs 20 shows. Who is supporting LI??



  7. #7
    crs2 Guest

    Default

    Will someone please explain,in simple language,what the benefit is of switching to a 'top twenty' point system is? So for I have not heard the "pros" fully explained! Thanks



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 1999
    Posts
    1,804

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    How does someone do 60 shows a year? I think someone who gets more points from 20 shows than someone gets with 40 is the more quality horse/rider combo.



  9. #9
    crs2 Guest

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    60 shows is easily attained when there are shows nearly every day during July and August on Long Island.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
    Location
    Stony Brook
    Posts
    81

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    The top 20 shows would be fair if you were Qualifing for something but we are talking about an END OF YEAR award which should reflect a whole year of showing no matter how few or many shows you choose to ride in.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
    Location
    southampton,ny
    Posts
    2,348

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    First of all only one person on LI did or ever does that many shows.This rule was changed without input from anyone but 4 people in the meeting!And it was changed for one person( so that type of person would not be able to win) ,also it was changed so that one person can win high score on LI while they also show at cap challenge harrisburg fla etc.A vast majority of trainers and exhibitors are against this rule change but it seems that the majority has no say in how things are done out here !Only the minority has any say.
    For ya all in other parts of the world say Virginia how would you like it if... the pres and vice pres and say tom struzzieri decided that of all the shows you guys show at only the Culpeper shows would count.That means that Warrenton wouldnt count Upperville wouldnt count Deep Run Middleburg any shows in NC or Md wouldnt count. More importantly lets say that this decision was
    made in a closed meeting without any input from any of you who pay all the bills
    YOU see here on LI there are a lot of shows lots of them ,all points are or were calculated like zone awards points so if you are champion at like 15 shows where there are 9 or more in division you win ,period the end.All the winter shows will die many of the smaller ones in summer will also trainers who take 15 to a show wontbe able to because the clients wont want to go to anything but the biggest shows which might have rock hard footing or sloppy mud or be the hampton classic which is not really open to all entries any more .I may not be expressing myself clearly but MY BIG PROBLEM WITH THIS IS>>> this was done in an underhanded sneaky way.
    Brilyntrip



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2000
    Location
    LI & KY
    Posts
    462

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    Crs2-
    The advantages, as it was explained to me are:
    1) It would prevent someone from getting way out in front. Once he/she acquires 20 shows, points would start to get deducted from his/her TOTAL as he/she continues to show.
    2) It would allow the guy who only wants to do a smaller number of LI shows to have a better shot at a LI prize.
    3) It would prevent "horse races" in the Fall.
    4) It would even the playing field.

    And, as it was presented to a room full of people at a LIPHA meeting, using several charts and graphs, only 7% of LI's horse show competitors were benefiting from the aggregate method. The room was still not convinced, however, that the 20 show rule would positively impact the horse show community as a whole. The rule was tabled at that point. It was brought up again at 2 LIHSAA meetings. It was voted in, as a trial for 2001, at the second meeting, with 5 members present, 4-1 vote.
    \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
    Location
    southampton,ny
    Posts
    2,348

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    I am repeating to the best of my abilities what are supposed to be the pros
    !) it is easier to book keep this way( HOnestly it was said to me that the person who runs the website for our local organization would not have to work so hard)
    2)The really nice ones arent winning,we are getting beaten because they show at all the winter shows and do more shows than we do( because the trainer takes a lot of people to fla but not the childrens hunter kids who dont show or jump all winter .)My answer is then dont go to Fla Old Salem Hits etc etc or be willing to accept that you aren't going to be LI high score champion and Zone top 6 and win at Cap Challenge, Harrisburg etc etc
    3) If one gets way out in front during the winter we can't catch them.(Well too bad)
    40Th epoint calculator has shown us all the statistics that show us that it wont affect anyone 's placing so we want to od this .
    These are the reasons for changing this rule I have tried to be fair and honest if anyone else has a comment please feel free to add ok???
    Brilyntrip



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 20, 2001
    Location
    Huntington, NY USA
    Posts
    42

    Default

    Please everyone give us your thoughts and feeling so we can bring them to a meeting



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    206

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    "Once he/she acquires 20 shows, points would start to get deducted from his/her TOTAL as he/she continues to show."

    Really? You get penalized for doing more than 20 shows?

    I'm a little confused...
    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img]



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2000
    Posts
    134

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    The NJPHA (New Jersey Professional Horsemans Assoc.) took a different approach. They allow all shows to count for points but you are allowed only ten shows from one series of shows. Let's say barn X has 20 shows during the year - you are only allowed to count points from 10 of those shows. This was done because people were collecting year end awards without ever leaving the property where their horse was boarded. It was seen as a way to level the playing field. The NJPHA had sent questionairres out to all members when they were discussing what rule changes should be applied. All responses indicated that members wanted some change to try to level the playing field.

    Another rule that they have is that when there are only 3 (minimum number for points to count) in the class, the number of points is reduced.

    My opinion is that there will never be a way to curb the point chasers. I've heard of lawsuits being threatened over a beginner hunter division. Allegations of point fixing were thrown around. I'm in agreement that just because you won a year end award does not mean you were the best in the division, it just means you went to more horse shows.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 29, 2000
    Location
    LI & KY
    Posts
    462

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    Sweet Pea-
    Once a competitor does 20 shows, he/she starts to loose the points from his/her worst show. The total is from HIS/HER top 20 shows. Does that help you??
    \"I can\'t drive....55!!!!\" Sammy Hagar



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2000
    Location
    southampton,ny
    Posts
    2,348

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    I think that what Pony Pulr meant was that if you did say 25 shows and at 15 shows you won 74 points at those 15 your total would be 1110. At the next six you only got 35 points instead of adding the 1110 to 210 you could only add 175.So unless you could show and get more than 35 points at a show your total wouldnt change.
    Brilyntrip



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2000
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    206

    Default

    Gotcha - thanks!



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2001
    Location
    Smithtown,N.Y.
    Posts
    1,074

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    It took this topic to get me to fill out this form to be able to post this message. From start to finish this has been handled very poorly to say the least. I believe the committee really should step back and see the message they they have just sent out. Please remember this is called L.I. END OF YEAR AWARDS. The people that are here all year deserve to have all points counted. As it has already been stated if you choose to go off long Island great for you but should not be rewarded for this at the end of year awards. Being on a committee means you should represent all fairly and not just push things through for a select few. L.I. is made up of such a variety of people and so many do not have the resources for that expensive fancy horse and can only show close to their home. Should they not be allowed to have their moment also even if it be a 5th or 6th at the end of year banquet. Let zones take your top shows and leave L.I. point system the way it has been for years. I don't think it was broke so why are we trying to fix it!!!!!!!!!
    \"Disaster is the only thing that I can depend on\"-
    Stevie Nicks



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