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  1. #3961
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarpaso View Post
    And then, of course, there is this which I just heard from a reliable source: The new Performance Show Horse Group Association says that anyone who shows horses with any organization other than the PSHA will not be able to show at a PSHA show for 12 months after they show somewhere else. That would eliminate anyone who shows NWHA, for example. So, if you don't sign on with the new consolidated group, they will keep you out of the Celebration. And if the TWHBEA Futurity decided to use that new consolidated HIO/PSHA, you couldn't show at the Futurity if you had shown your horse with some other organization.


    Chew on this FOLKS,Howard's control of the TWH
    Some wicked connections you have aarpaso!
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #3962
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2003
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    Northeast MA
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    I'm trying to get my head around the alphabet soup of organizations and their overlap. Would anyone post an org chart or flow chart or even show overlapping squares so a non-TWH person such as myself has a glimmer of a chance of understanding?

    From what I've gathered, the PSHA is trying the same maneuver that the FEI recently mandated. The latter is an organization that controls international competition at the highest levels with the agreement of the national organizations. They were concerned about riders/ horses qualifying for international level competitions in non-standardized competitions, thereby increasing their risk when they showed up to compete at the FEI level so they mandated all qualifying points had to be at FEI competitions. (There may have been some other considerations as well, but there are plenty of threads on that.) The FEI also said that any rider, horse or official that participated in a non-FEI competition would be prohibited from FEI competitions for 6 months following. That caused such a firestorm that clarifications were rapidly disseminated to indicate that any competition the national organization exempted from the ban would be allowed (although qualifying points wouldn't accrue).

    <sigh> It would be so nice if all the TWH people immediately went out and competed in some non-PSH(G)A show just to make them try to enforce such a foolish rule. And if there's a lawyer in the house, are there any anti-trust/ restraint of trade issues with that?
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3963
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    I think PSHA is not yet formed or fully functioning. It is an attempt to get a separate stacked show organization/registry going. Whether it will skirt the HR6388 law is a good question right along with whether they can exclude exhibitors or horses that compete in other show organizations.

    How on earth did FEI get away with excluding folks from participating in competing clubs/organizations? Yes - that is a good legal question.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #3964
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    Apr. 15, 2003
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    Northeast MA
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    Hurleycane, I am far from an expert on the FEI, but at its level, it is the only recognized organization (e.g. Olympics). And as I said there was such a kerfuffle that they "clarified" their initial comments to indicate that competitions recognized by the national governing organization wouldn't result in a 6 month ban. Neither would schooling or low level shows. It has yet to be tested in the courts, but it may well be by some competing organization.

    As to skirting HR6388, I think that might be difficult. If it was so easy to avoid a law by changing the name of something, marijuana could be sold legally under another name.

    The law IMHO has to prevent a specific set of activities (stacks, bands, soring) that could be perpetrated on any horse, not just a specific breed. Otherwise, those who practice such measures will only move on to another breed. This may not be how others see the issue, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  5. #3965
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    Jan. 19, 2013
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    Arizona, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    It has been said that owners resemble their pets.

    I just wonder...do you own pitbulls?
    No, actually, I own collies, who care about other animals around them and are kind to them, listen and learn and are eager, and don't growl and get nasty when someone tells them the truth.

    But then again, all the pit bulls I know are kind, sweet, and very friendly dogs. They love their families and listen well to their masters. So if you're implying that pit bulls are mean or nasty or WTF ever reference this is supposed to be, you are truly as ignorant as I figured you are.
    Last edited by FortheTWH; Mar. 10, 2013 at 04:11 AM. Reason: add a paragraph
    Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
    www.forthetwh.com


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #3966
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    Jan. 19, 2013
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    Arizona, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    HAs Andrea ever been in any of these barns???

    I think not.
    UMMMMM, YES, I have. I LIVE In Saddlebred country--I have been to many barns out here. The Saddlebred folks are the ones who run our local gaited horse shows. I saw horses standing in bitting rigs in stalls with no turnout. I saw horses being worked for hours on end with stretchies and blinders and all kinds of crap on them. I see older ASBs A LOT with lordosis so bad they should never be ridden again, yet fat Saddleseat ladies get on them in the adult Academy classes because they're been there, done that horses. I have heard the firecrackers and fire extinguishers going off before the halter/model classes to hype the horses up.

    If you're talking about BL barns, I have certainly been inside the barns at our local show that used to have BL horses and seen grooms soring horses RIGHT BEFORE MY EYES. This was before I knew what soring was.

    So yes, I KNOW WHAT GOES ON.

    Next time, ASK me if I've been to these barns, okay?

    I've discovered something very clear about this thread--MANY of you are very good at making assumptions. You guys are not helping us in any way, shape or form. Clearly I need to stick to areas where people are TRULY for the horse and not for themselves and picking fights.

    Good bye.
    Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
    www.forthetwh.com



  7. #3967
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    Jan. 19, 2013
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    Arizona, USA
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    P.S. I'm sure Nate will come back on soon enough and see I'm gone and take the opportunity to spread some lies about me. If you want to believe them, go ahead. Anyone who associates with that man will eventually learn the truth behind who he really is. I trusted him once--one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.
    Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
    www.forthetwh.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #3968
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    Dec. 26, 2011
    Location
    CT
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    193

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    Quote Originally Posted by FortheTWH View Post
    P.S. I'm sure Nate will come back on soon enough and see I'm gone and take the opportunity to spread some lies about me. If you want to believe them, go ahead. Anyone who associates with that man will eventually learn the truth behind who he really is. I trusted him once--one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.
    Actually not everyone on here worships NJ, and from what I can see the only time people have gotten harsh to you (besides NJ) is when you started bringing saddlebreds into it, if you would like to discuss them you could always start another thread.
    Thanks for the info you shared here about the TWH
    Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #3969
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    And still an exaggeration "hours on end."

    And now I understand why you left the thick of things.

    My assumptions were understandings.

    And from what you say - IF it is true - you have not spent any time with a good ASB trainer.

    I know of a great one in AZ who uses all those things you speak of yet is by no means cruel.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #3970
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    Nov. 11, 2009
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    211

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    When Andrea started out, some 12 years ago ~~~ she had allot of things wrong, Jennie & I helped her learn the physical about this horse, gaits, for example...She had and has a very strong sense of wanting to help the horse but she also wants to punish the wrong doers.

    She was and is strong in her ways I nicknamed her and called her "Xena, The Warrior Princess" in our private emails.

    Our problem has been of HOW, more than What, Where and Why?

    I have no lies to spread about this woman, she is not that important to me in my life, besides, spreading lies about someone to me means you feel beaten by that person and you want to elevate yourself and the best way to do that besides earning it is to tear down the other person, so you remain on top.

    Do not need to do that with her ~~~ I still maintain that she has great value to the cause, but she just gets so mad at things and people, she becomes nasty in my eyes, leaves little room for actual discussions or dialogue.

    Andrea, to me I have no desire nor have I said it that you should leave, my point all along has been basically, "Hate the Sin, but Love the Sinner"

    Yesterday, I'm at the Southern Bonanza, when a lady who used to be so into Lickin horses, she purchased her second home in a really nice gated community caddy-corner to the Celebration grounds,

    We used to show against her allot, we used to fight very vocally in TWHBEA Board meeting for several years, she and the folks she ran with HATED! me. HATED!!!

    Well, when we took Dressage en Gaite to TWHBEA, she rode in a couple of classes...she liked it, went out an purchased a horse that had not been molested with as her dressage and also flat shod showing horse...

    She got hooked, sold her lickin horses, started taking dressage lessons in FLA, and not is one of the biggest pushers within her community of lickers making converts.

    Yesterday we laughed, about our past relationship ~~~ I ask myself, would that ever happened if I had taken the hard line of persecuting, condemning her

    I don't think so, ~~~~ ya wanna know when I started learning bout this? After coming home from the war, in 1975 Viet Nam fell, a whole lot of people received asylum here in the states....

    I started running into Vietnamese men of fighting age, ~~~I had hateful thoughts towards them, but started the process an understanding how I would have been should someone came to my home and did what we did to theirs.

    But you see, I am much older than Andrea, more life experiences under my belt, I can see a little more clearer than she, and I would be patient in helping her get to a place as I of eradicating the problems and leaving the source in place to re cultivate a more desirable crop.

    I am not fighting as some see my comments, I am trying to help her understand a different way of approaching all of this, and with her, ya gotta get down, for her to begin to hear ya...point specific things out to her which you can gauge where she is at by the tone and contents of her comments.

    Everything will be alright, yes, it will

    The Preacher


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #3971
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    You bring up a good general point about "a life's work" Mr Preacher.

    Very often - specially in horses - people try to elevate themselves by tearing down others.

    It never works.

    And I am glad to leave Andrea's personal stuff out of this. I just wish she would be a little more forthcoming and examine her own account of things. "Hours on end" is what I take great issue with. Right along with an "up" horse being terrified.

    And here is an excerpt from a Mark Russell book I was reading today:

    Some horses will end in-hand sessions highly stimulated. This doesn't necessarily mean a loss of relaxation--it can represent the horse's motivation to perform and is considered a good response.

    How the horse responds to the trainer at this point will show the mark of their partnership. Like a performance horse who jumps through a ring of fire, or the Arabian stallions at liberty in Cavalia...

    Animation, a high head and fleet foot are not always bad.

    Depends on the whole picture.

    And trying to paint the entire ASB discipline as cruel and without credibility or ethic - well - just shows the limits of Andrea's focus. Or maybe her fear that her fist pounding was off the mark.

    Either way - stomping off and flipping you off shows a lot.

    COme on back Andrea - I am sure there is much to attend to.
    Last edited by hurleycane; Mar. 10, 2013 at 02:19 PM.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #3972
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    May. 16, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugalannie View Post
    I'm trying to get my head around the alphabet soup of organizations and their overlap. Would anyone post an org chart or flow chart or even show overlapping squares so a non-TWH person such as myself has a glimmer of a chance of understanding?
    That would be an interesting visual. In this thread we have referred to "connecting the dots" as new groups have formed through the years but are always made up of the same old hardcore performance enthusiasts. I do have a PDF file somewhere that lists all the "players" and all thier connections with the different HIOs. I will post if i can find it.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #3973
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    Jul. 23, 2007
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    749

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    Come back Andrea.



  14. #3974
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    Feb. 13, 2006
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    Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by FortheTWH View Post
    P.S. I'm sure Nate will come back on soon enough and see I'm gone and take the opportunity to spread some lies about me. If you want to believe them, go ahead. Anyone who associates with that man will eventually learn the truth behind who he really is. I trusted him once--one of the biggest mistakes I ever made.
    You are so correct in your comments!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #3975
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    Apr. 3, 2007
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    Could be a problem with the name PSHA.as the word performance is used in most breeds to describe a division within that breed.So how can David Howard and his gang rename the TWH performance division the PSHA Reg.

    bottom line They can't,or shouldn't without a giant uproar from other breeds,maybe they are going to let all breeds be apart of this new registry.just so they can by pass the LAW.


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  16. #3976
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    May. 16, 2007
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    i dunno isnt it just a name ? The APHA took over the word paint and it became Paint. The Pinto PtHa is more inclusive. Used to be paint and pinto were interchangable but now paint means Paint. A Paint can be a Pinto, but a Pinto cannot necessarily a Paint. I always resented them taking over the name paint because as i youngster it was okay to call a horse a pinto or a paint. Since i always have loved the colored up horses, it just kind of bugged me that they combined the American Paint Quarter Horse Assoc and the American Paint Stock Horse Assoc. and stole a name i grew up with. (think Misty of Chincoteague and Indian paint ponies)

    The Shelbyville mob are doing it for all the wrong reasons but the way they seem to be going about it they might end up as a small group with targets on their backs at inspection time. And wont TWHBEA have to be complicit if they allow pedigrees (didnt they win a lawsuit relating to the pedigree being intellecutual property ?)to be used by a new "breed"? Is this a clever thing they are doing? I dont know, just cant wrap my head around it.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #3977
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    May. 16, 2007
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    This article is almost a year old, but if you scroll down it will list board members of some of the HIOs and list their number of HPA violations. Of course it does not list the latest alphabet soup groups, but the names may overlap.

    http://midsouthhorsereview.com/articles.php?id=4847
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #3978
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    Apr. 3, 2007
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    Trouble in lickerville some may be unhappy with the Mob Boss and his son.


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  19. #3979
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    Jan. 20, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarpaso View Post
    Trouble in lickerville some may be unhappy with the Mob Boss and his son.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #3980
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    Apr. 3, 2007
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    At the AQHA conference in Texas,the subject of soring was on the agenda,statement by Jay Hickey:

    4 pieces of equine welfare legislation coming before the current United States Congress,its huge said Jay Hickey, Our issues(horse industry) are going to be front and center.

    the HPA HR6388 is one of the 4.

    its time to e-mail your congressmen/women folks


    3 members found this post helpful.

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