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  1. #2801
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    Quote Originally Posted by kathy s. View Post
    ive been busy with hay for a couple days, just getting caught up here. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here are some of those words.

    wonky angle
    underrun heels
    crumbling left foot
    dark toe areas - laminae compromised ?
    and the bands ( you know those "protective" bands that keep the shoe on)

    This white footed horse shows the bruising above the bands and below where the hoof is growing down. That bruising can lead to abcesses and damage to the laminae (WLD,seedy toe,etc). You might not see this bruising on a dark hoofed horse til it grew down and the trim revealed it.

    That is one shocking shoe job.
    Last edited by WalkInTheWoods; Sep. 30, 2012 at 10:29 PM. Reason: spellin
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  2. #2802
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    You are blind. If you can't see the lack of true trot in these Park Arabians.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owwXRlBn7UE
    You say that is not a true trot. What, in your opinion is a true trot, and why is this not acceptable?
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  3. #2803
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    ive been busy with hay for a couple days, just getting caught up here. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here are some of those words.

    wonky angle
    underrun heels
    crumbling left foot
    dark toe areas - laminae comprised ?
    and the bands ( you know those "protective" bands that keep the shoe on)

    This white footed horse shows the bruising above the bands and below where the hoof is growing down. That bruising can lead to abcesses and damage to the laminae (WLD,seedy toe,etc). You might not see this bruising on a dark hoofed horse til it grew down and the trim revealed it.

    That is one shocking shoe job.
    I have to agree. This horse may not be chemically sored but his poor feet have to be hurtin'. All in the name of fashion.



  4. #2804
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    it seems the practice of stacks and bands has bled into park pleasure of other breeds.now the question is will they (the other breed Assoc.)let it continue or will end it here and now.

    if you don't like it you need to speak up,for the horse's future.



  5. #2805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnalli View Post
    You say that is not a true trot. What, in your opinion is a true trot, and why is this not acceptable?
    What? You can't see that their rear end is trying desperately to keep up? You can't see the skipping/hitching behind? You can't see that the riders can't even find a place to post to the "trot"? You just can't see period? WTH? It resembles a 4 beat gait before it resembles a trot.

    Really, people must need to take an art class to understand balance. Honestly I am astonished at what people DO NOT see. Too overwhelmed with what's going on with motion syndrome?
    Can't see the forest for the trees? Ahhhhhh...I can't stand it.



  6. #2806
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    Sunridge I was asking an honest question. I don't deal with Arabs at all or trotting breeds much. Anything that I have that trots is slower moving, and does not come anywhere near a park trot. I saw a couple on there that I didn't like the way of going, but I was honestly looking at the front end more than the rear end.
    http://community.webshots.com/album/548368465RfewoU[/url]

    She may not have changed the stars from their courses, but she loved a good man, and she rode good horses….author unknown



  7. #2807
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    Nov. 13, 2005
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    Clarksville, TN
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    What? You can't see that their rear end is trying desperately to keep up? You can't see the skipping/hitching behind? You can't see that the riders can't even find a place to post to the "trot"? You just can't see period? WTH? It resembles a 4 beat gait before it resembles a trot.

    Really, people must need to take an art class to understand balance. Honestly I am astonished at what people DO NOT see. Too overwhelmed with what's going on with motion syndrome?
    Can't see the forest for the trees? Ahhhhhh...I can't stand it.
    I am not a fan of this division of Arabian showing but mostly because they do not have the kind of movement at the trot which works for this kind of shoeing(IMO). The shoe, bands, and pad are supposed to be used as a way to enhance the motion already present...or in other cases can completely ruin movement. This kind of shoeing has the downside of being able to exaggerate the flaws in a horses way of going (which is why it should be tailored to the individual horse.)

    What I see in the video is a combination of a horse not designed for the high exaggerated trot attempting to be made in to it while being pushed for speed at the trot to further exaggerate the motion. The only thing successfully happening is the horse constantly wanting to break gait because it is being kept at that moment between gears.

    And as for finding a place to post...depends on the horse.



  8. #2808
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    You are blind. If you can't see the lack of true trot in these Park Arabians.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owwXRlBn7UE
    Very good video to post. Lots of hitching hinds - and no, a hitch is not excitement or a desire to canter.

    It is bad training and bad riding. It should not be awarded a ribbon. Very sad state. Specially for a championship.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  9. #2809
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    A very simple solution to fix the shoeing/stacking lunacy would be to ban bands. Mother nature would show its limits.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  10. #2810
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    Apr. 6, 2006
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    Plainview, MN
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    The desirable movement for an Arabian or Half-Arabian Park Horse is different than what is considered desirable for any other trotting saddle seat breed. This is due to what is written in the rule book:
    SUBCHAPTER AR-4 PARK HORSE SECTION .
    AR117 Qualifying Gaits.
    2. Trot: Animated, natural and cadenced, with impulsion and power from behind, the front airy and light. The animated natural trot is extremely bold and brilliant, characterized by free shoulder action. The trot should appear effortless and be executed willingly with apparent ease. The horse to have leg flexion with extension, (foreleg extending fully forward at full stretch with airy motion combined with hock action that is powerful and well raised, the hind leg being brought forward
    with a driving stride). The action should be balanced and cadenced. Loss of form due to excessive speed shall be penalized. The trot should be a true two-beat diagonal gait. Mixed gaits, pacing or racking must be considered major faults.
    No other trotting saddle seat breed asks that the horse should be performing extension while doing a "park trot", in fact in other trotting saddle seat breeds it is not considered desirable at all! I have been told that this was because when the Arabian people organized and made their rules and standards in the mid-20th century they wanted to make something that distinguished them from the Saddlebred and Morgan, so they came up with this requirement of extension as well as elevation in the trot.

    Now here are Arabian Park Horses in 1989, during the 14 oz. shoe and single leather pad rule era
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlQ0U0P6YDk

    Here are the rules pertaining to what type of trot is desired in a Saddlebred Three-Gaited horse:
    SUBCHAPTER SB-2 DESCRIPTION OF GAITS.
    SB115 Trot .
    1. The trot is a natural, two beat diagonal gait in which the front foot and the opposite hind foot take off from the ground in unison and land simultaneously. A balanced trot features coordinated motion with straight, true, shoulder motion of front legs, with flexing hocks carried close together. It is executed in a highly collected manner and should display the horse’s athletic ability.
    2. PARK TROT: The park trot in Three-Gaited and Fine Harness classes is executed in a highly collected manner, speed to be penalized. The horse’s energy should be directed toward animation rather than speed.
    And here is the 1988 Three-Gaited World's Grand Championship class
    http://youtu.be/p6Z2MTKoch8
    These horses are not pushed over-tempo to produce "flexion with extension" because it is not desired. Also there is no, never has been, any shoeing rules for Three-Gaited Saddlebreds. Common sense and 196 years of trial and error has taught horsemen what works and what doesn't. (The first records of Saddlebred horse shows are from 1816, our first national horse show was in 1856).

    Here you can find this year's Three-Gaited World's Grand Championship http://www.usefnetwork.com/featured/2012ksfwchs/

    So my point and conclusion in what you are seeing in an Arabian Park class is the result of what those who came up with the rules for that class produced. Really it reminds me more of the three-year old dressage horses in Europe being presented http://youtu.be/EPa7cTjlvA8 than it does of a Walking Horse or even the other trotting saddle seat breeds.



  11. #2811
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    http://www.chattanoogan.com/2012/10/...ackground.aspx

    Roy Exum: No Criminal Background?
    Monday, October 01, 2012 - by Roy Exum

    There is a lawyer in West Tennessee named David Douglas who seems to be pretty slick. He’s representing Jackie McConnell, the serial horse abuser who is facing 17 counts of animal cruelty as depicted on a horrendous video tape that has been seen by millions. Jackie was brought to trial last Tuesday morning in Fayette County but lawyer Douglas quickly got the case pushed back to Nov. 13.

    That way, the legal eagle said, he hopes to work a plea deal with district attorney Mike Dunavant so McConnell will receive only probation after he savagely beat and abused horses in his Collierville barn. The lawyer Douglas explained, “(Jackie) has no criminal background so certainly we’d be asking for probation and hoping the state may agree to that.

    “This is a complicated case,” Douglas told a reporter for the Jackson Sun newspaper. “It’s a lot of counts but we believe we have had some level of success in getting this resolved, and I think by the 13th, it will be resolved. But until the plea is either entered or agreed to and the judge has approved it, that’s all subject to change.”

    Excuse me but how much longer will it be before this ridiculous charade comes to a stop? To begin, Jackie McConnell became a convicted felon on Sept. 18 in a federal court in Chattanooga. While his West Tennessee counsel claims his client has no criminal background, a combination of thin laws and a passive horse industry has hidden over 30 years of McConnell’s systematic horse abuse and hundreds of animals that have been sored at his whim.

    The problem is that McConnell’s long list of suspensions and abuses in the industry have been civil matters and he wasn’t prosecuted by federal officials until just this year when the first-ever legal actions were sought regarding the Horse Protection act. Ironically, every conviction was brought on a charge other than animal cruelty. Not until this July did livestock cruelty become a felony in the state of Tennessee, which is why McConnell only received misdemeanor charges after actually using an electric cattle prod on a horse’s lips.

    When McConnell appeared in Federal court last month, Judge Sandy Mattice assured the crowd that being a federal felon was “a pretty big thing” and required the defendant – who pleaded guilty – to pay a fine of $75,000 rather than putting the disgraced horse trainer in jail. The U.S. Dept. of Agriculture had already fined McConnell $150,000.

    But in West Tennessee, where it is explained “things are done a little differently,” apparently a federal felony has no merit nor bearing when lawyer Douglas can say, “no criminal background.” Great goodness, all they have to do is show the nauseating tape and the prosecutor can produce scores of eyewitnesses who will confirm McConnell has a long string of citations for abusing horses.

    Close observers say that lawyer Douglas got the court date pushed back not so the cases of two other defendants could be heard but in hopes the hot issue will cool down with the autumn winds. To the contrary, the public sentiment towards the abusive segment of the Tennessee Walking Horse industry has never been as harsh.

    Just last week it was learned veterinarian Dr. Steven L. Mullins, who has served as the president of the SHOW group in Shelbyville, had abruptly stepped down in a move that promises further turmoil to the much-maligned “Big Lick” segment. SHOW has sued the U.S. Dept. of Agriculture in a Texas court and the legal tiff is nothing compared to sordid reputation that the McConnell tape has triggered across the country for the Big Lick’s unnatural gait and wide-spread cheating.

    Some believe Mullins’ departure is a financial necessity after a very “tense” National Celebration in late August and Wade Adams, a longtime employee who oversaw the Shelbyville physical facilities for 12 years, has apparently been fired after a heated disagreement with new Celebration president Mike Inman. Inman just replaced Dr. Doyle Meadows in the Shelbyville hierarchy.

    Two of the nation’s top equine veterinary groups are demanding the stacks, pads, and “performance devices” that have famously hidden abuse from inspectors now be banned and congressional legislation has already been instigated due to the public’s outcry. Both national and state legislators are being bombarded with angry mailings from their constituents while lobbyists for what is called “the dark side” are working furiously against much-needed reforms.

    Sadly, the great majority of the public who own and adore Walking Horses have been unfairly castigated by the actions and behavior of the Shelbyville-based organizations and Celebration’s glaring feud with not just the USDA but the Humane Society of the United States as well. “It makes you want to throw up,” said former Maryland Senator Joseph Tydings, who wrote the Horse Protection Act in 1970. “The Big Lick has got to go!”

    Please, are you kidding me! As long as Jackie McConnell and those like him are allowed to skate on probation charges, the Big Lick isn’t going anywhere. And felony charges? There were numerous incidents and proven abuse seen at the Shelbyville show in August but Bedford County officers said it was a federal manner and not one arrest was made, despite the fact it became a state law on July 1.

    Outside the Sheriff’s office in Shelbyville there is a huge sign today that reads, “We support the TWH.” No kidding.

    royexum@aol.com
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  12. #2812
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    Jul. 5, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarpaso View Post
    FAIRFAX,don't you remember that,its how they started the ASB too. or do you need to learn your breed history. you do not see any stacks or pkg on Wing Commander nor Colonel Boyle not even Technistar so what made the change, GREED Human GREED,ppl like YOU.
    Technistar may not have worn stacks or a package, but she looked like she was wearing some pretty good foot on her. As did Wing and Colonel Boyle. You have to have a good big foot to give those big going horses some base. I wouldn't say for a MINUTE that the old time ASBs were doing any better in regards to shoeing than they are today. I've seen old photos of some pretty horrendous hooves. Long toes, no heel support... you name it.

    I think overall, quality of shoeing has improved. And of course, the good ones go light.



  13. #2813
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    So Howard's hatchman,has begun his work,Mullins is out, now Adams.
    Now Wade Adams could tell what has really gone on at the Celebration,for the better part of a decade in and out of the barns.

    they either have given him (Wade)another job or a rally big walking pkge.
    if not he had better start writing a book.and MOVE far far away.



  14. #2814
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    Renae - great explanation of riding mistakes - "pushed over tempo."

    Smart ALex - "And of course, the good ones go light." Great reminder to judges that lumbering and lugging a heavy foot should not be considered a good ride.

    As to the politics of trying to keep the stacks and chains legal - I am sure more is coming.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  15. #2815
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    I think Exum is being totally unfair to the Fayette County prosecutor. I talked to him personally after the first hearing, and am convinced he would like to punish McConnell as much as possible. Otherwise, this case never would have been prosecuted locally.

    One thing you need to remember is that the sentence must be according to the laws that existed at the time and that the judge is bound by legal requirements and precedents. They did get the horses away from him and he won't be able to practice his profession any longer. Fayette County is not Shelbyville--the politicians are not controlled by the Big Lick people here. Just because his lawyer thinks he'll get off doesn't mean he will.



  16. #2816
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    Thats true about what the lawyer is spouting. And they did take the horses away but i wonder what will become of the horses after the trial. Will they be returned to him ? If i understand the federal court judge's ruling, Jackie is on probation and has to report his horse activities but i believe he can still own horses. Maybe that will change after his next day in court. But we do have to remember that the new felony law will not be tested because as you said it came into being after Jackie was caught. I hope the lawyer is wrong about his stalling tactics taking some heat off the situation. I really dont think it will. It may have the opposite effect.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  17. #2817
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    Jackie's done for. Even if he could own and/or train horses, he can't show them--without soring his horses can't win, and all the owners know it. He won't be able to make a move without somebody breathing down his neck.



  18. #2818
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    If you think Jackie McConnell is all in, you best go to the house. He has family that can do the work for him.like a brother



  19. #2819
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    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  20. #2820
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    For those who want to give the TWHBEA Big Lick Freak Show the benefit of the doubt, but say they would be opposed if it's "proven" to be abusive - from the link above -

    "However, the American Association of Equine Practitioners (AAEP) has issued a release stating that despite SHOW's claim of a 98.5 percent compliance rate with the Horse Protection Act at events it inspects, USDA swab tests on 52 horses at the 2011 Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration resulted in 52 positive findings for foreign substances. It also states that 37 of the 52 horses tested positive for anesthetic agents used to mask pain from soring and that three of the seven judges for this year's Celebration have been cited for soring violations in the past. At press time, the USDA was reviewing inspection reports to tabulate data from this year's Celebration show."

    Bluey alluded to horse enthusiasts losing their right to engage in their discipline, and I do believe that Bluey is correct in her assertion that radical animal rights groups have an agenda that endangers farming and pet ownership -- they fundamentally do not believe in humans "owning" animals and support concepts like "Pleistocene Rewilding" -- there are some seriously radical people behind many of these big groups. I consider myself an environmentalist and a supporter of humane treatment of animals; but I am concerned when groups like HSUS are writing legislation and dominating discussions / debates.

    So, my opinion is that every horseperson has a responsibility to speak up and take action to stop abusive practices that they become aware of, because the days of turning a blind eye and getting away w/ dirty little secrets are ending thanks to social media. If horse people cannot figure out how to police their own; then groups like HSUS will do the job their way. Defending the "rights" of those engaged in practices perceived to be abusive is just not a winning strategy. Ultimately, it is a PR war more than a legal one; and the deciders will be the general public -- not horse experts. I believe the court of public opinion IS much more powerful than the court of law -- thanks to the interwebs and social media.

    So, to me it is insane for responsible horse lovers to allow a few abusers to dominate their breed -- the fact that the Big Lick Freak Show is the showcase of the TWHBEA Celebration has harmed the reputation of the ENTIRE TWH breed. The vast majority of TWH and owners are in no way, shape or form involved in Big Lick -- yet the TWH breed registry has consistently chosen year after year to protect and promote the Big Lick -- consciously choosing to provide ammunition for their critics. The smart breeds / disciplines will be the ones that do everything possible to self police and to make sure that they are not setting themselves up as HSUS targets. I am not a fan of HSUS, but I am damn sure glad that McConnell was exposed publicly -- just incredible stupidity on the part of the TWHBEA for basically taunting and daring HSUS and animal rights activists to take them down and loading up HSUS coffers and credibility in the process. Talk about arming your enemy.

    As somebody said, when we learn that something causes suffering and that there is a better way; those of us w/ a conscious and an instinct for self-preservation CHANGE OUR BEHAVIOR. And, the world changes and evolves -- defenders of the "rights" of those engaged in activities perceived to be abusive will end up on the wrong side of history.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing


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