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  1. #4801
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    Like the stack of pads and chain and soring, changing the weight of a shoe and the balance of a shoe changes the flight pattern of the foot. Eliminating the artificial change of the flight pattern caused by these devices is the proposal's way to make sore training more evident.

    As I understand, NWHA's preference is to continue to offer various showing divisions based on the weight of the shoe. If passed, HR1518 will in effect stop NWHA from offering shoe weight divisions (eg light shod, plantation shod etc).

    Therein lies the rock and hard place for ultimate passage of this bill.
    The bill proposes that "(6) by adding at the end the following new paragraphs:
    ``(12) The use of an action device on any limb of a
    Tennessee Walking Horse, a Racking Horse, or a Spotted Saddle
    Horse at a horse show, horse exhibition, or horse sale or
    auction.
    ``(13) The use of a weighted shoe, pad, wedge, hoof band,
    or other device or material at a horse show, horse exhibition,
    or horse sale or auction that--
    ``(A) is placed on, inserted in, or attached to any
    limb of a Tennessee Walking Horse, a Racking Horse, or
    a Spotted Saddle Horse;
    ``(B) is constructed to artificially alter the gait
    of such a horse; and
    ``(C) is not strictly protective or therapeutic in
    nature.''.

    That is the exact text of the bill, not the summary. And from reading on NWHA's website, they also oppose the use of tungsten horseshoes. I personally have not seen the tungsten shoes so I wonder if there is visual evidence of the makeup of the shoe?? I would imagine that it does require a band to keep it in place and to keep from ripping off the horses hoof, just because of the weight of that shoe.

    Let me do a little digging and I'll get back with you.



  2. #4802
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    ``(B) is constructed to artificially alter the gait
    of such a horse; and
    ``(C) is not strictly protective or therapeutic in
    nature.''.


    These ^ ^ provisions are what catches NWHA.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  3. #4803
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    Since the rack is a man made gair I expect "racking horse" would include Saddlebreds.

    Having ANY action device for an auction..show..exhibition etc could also impact an ASB..even though the chain or roller IS LEGAL according to current USEF rules.

    Does this bill over ride USEF?

    Rack IS an altered gait..therefore according to this bill ALL racking horses would actually be illegal through shoeing with USEF defined number of pads or weights of shoes.

    This bill is too broad.

    Easy way to be handled by other breeds. Eliminate ALL TWH classes from their shows..THEN the application of the bill...if an attempt to apply it to Morgans, Arabs, ASB's etc could be challenged on THEIR merits..

    As long as TWH enthusiasts and others continue to believe soring an ASB is going to make it lift higher..then we have a major division.



  4. #4804
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    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    The Racking Horse is a specific breed. The rack is born not made.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #4805
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    Goodness gracious it is both hysterically funny and terribly sad to read the post from Fairfax. I mean there is just no hope to educate people on such matters when such straight forward information is read with such a slant. Even the trot gets altered by shoes, etc. Geesh!
    Last edited by hurleycane; May. 17, 2013 at 03:43 PM.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #4806
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    The Racking Horse is a specific breed. The rack is born not made.
    This. And the bill specifies Tennessee Walking Horse, Racking Horse, and Spotted Saddle Horse BREEDS. No where are ASB's, Morgans, Thoroughbreds or any other breed mentioned.



  7. #4807
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    ``(B) is constructed to artificially alter the gait
    of such a horse; and
    ``(C) is not strictly protective or therapeutic in
    nature.''.


    These ^ ^ provisions are what catches NWHA.
    After speaking with someone who is very involved in the PAST Act, I was told that the specifics of the Act will be worked out in committee with involvement from Vets, farriers, and other professionals who have knowledge of the mechanics and health of horses.

    MY own opinion (not that it's worth beans to NWHA) is that they should support the bill and ask for a seat at the table when the specifics are worked out. I would also hazard a guess that NWHA would be invited to offer opinions and help in hammering out the details since they are one of very few organizations that already do not allow pads.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #4808
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    The PAST Act now has 89 co-sponsors. It is limited to three specific breeds of horse......the Tennessee Walking Horse (based in Shelbyville, TN), the Spotted Saddle Horse (based in Shelbyville, TN) and the Racking Horse (based in Decatur, AL).



  9. #4809
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    Link to sponsors list again?
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  10. #4810
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    Churlish posters are so anxious to post a hit on Fairfax they don't even bother to read WHAT THEY HAVE POSTED..or to read what others have posted.

    THIS is why I made the statement. If was reflecting WHAT had already been posted.

    Have any of you ever sat in on the development of a bill? I have. I have also seen the damage a poorly written..broad based bill can do

    I think you need to take a look at the following. ANYTHING or ANY BILL that targets the TWH, Racking Horse etc WILL also at some point target other breeds..
    Last edited by Fairfax; May. 18, 2013 at 11:01 AM.



  11. #4811
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    Seems your keyboard has a speech impediment.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4812
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    May. 16, 2007
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    hurleycane, there is a list of co-sponsors at this link :

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:hr1518:
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  13. #4813
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    Elimination of all action devices is throwing some people off getting behind the bill. Hence, my quest for further discussion on the action devices is toward understanding why the soring potential persists because of them and to get more people behind the bill (or to get a better bill).

    Like the stack of pads and chain and soring, changing the weight of a shoe and the balance of a shoe changes the flight pattern of the foot. Eliminating the artificial change of the flight pattern caused by these devices is the proposal's way to make sore training more evident.


    This is not just a concern for NWHA; other breeds and disciplines wear what could be considered “weighted shoes” including Saddlebreds, Hackneys, Reiners, Arabians, Morgans and even some Dressage horses. Even though these other breeds and disciplines are not necessarily covered under the HPA if this Bill is made law, without clarification, it could eventually impact them as w


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4814
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    That will be corrected in two weeks when I am off dial up. Until then, I will just have to do the best I can when responding to others thinking impediments
    Last edited by Fairfax; May. 18, 2013 at 11:03 AM.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #4815
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This is not just a concern for NWHA; other breeds and disciplines wear what could be considered “weighted shoes” including Saddlebreds, Hackneys, Reiners, Arabians, Morgans and even some Dressage horses. Even though these other breeds and disciplines are not necessarily covered under the HPA if this Bill is made law, without clarification, it could eventually impact them as w
    Have you read the bill? I'm guessing no since you keep talking about Saddlebreds, Hackneys and the such. The bill explicitly states "Tennessee Walking Horses, Racking Horses, and Spotted Saddle Horses". The only way it could be more explicit would be if it identified individual horses by their barn name.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4816
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    Curious question for you, TN -- not familiar with the "Racking Horse" as a breed, but have volunteered at BO's TWH/SSH local circuit shows and they have classes in which the horses are shown at a rack. One of my jobs was ringmaster, so I asked the judge what she looked for because even to my horse-experienced eye, the rack and the running walk looked the same to me, as a trotting horse person.

    She said the rack differed in that the horse was supposed to show more knee action and hold the head still. While I'm not sure of the purpose, trainer concurred when I asked him the same question later. So it appeared to me that this IS a trained behaviour, although the difference in the ring was extremely subtle. All of the gaited horses there (all TWH/SSH), at liberty, either pace or trot.

    The TWH rack was markedly less dramatic than the SB rack I saw years ago, but all these horses are flat shod, although many do wear heavier shoes with bands, to slow down/exaggerate the limb movement and some occasionally wear chains up front for schooling rides.

    Anyway, just wondering, as it's been an interesting experience over the last year watching these guys.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #4817
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    I can tell you that the footfall pattern of the TWH is three feet on the ground at one time. The footfall pattern of the RH is one foot on the ground at a time.

    I'm sure you could train a horse to rack, just as you could probably train one to flat walk, canter, pace or trot. But there is also a breed of horse that is born doing this naturally. They aren't born trotting or pacing and then taught to rack.

    They do have more knee action and less head action than a TWH. The Racking Horse is a direct descendent of the TWH and use TWH registration papers as Racking Horse registration papers. Or you can have your horse examined by a commissioner and registered in RHBA.

    My stallion, when turned loose in the pasture, would do a big ol thing that looked like a Fresian tolt. But after he got the play out, he'd rack around all over the place. He would have to have been trained to pace......and that's something very undesirable in a TWH or RH, with the exception that in Speed Racking, they often reward the pace. Now they even have pacing classes for Speed Racking, but those horses usually look very Standardbred-ish to me.



  18. #4818
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    SB peep here. The seems to be much confusion these days about rack, stepping pace, running walk. The real difference between them is all about footfall sequence/set down, pick-up and whether they are square versus lateral. I think it's gotten to the point where people don't even know the difference anymore.

    I see TWH step pace more than anything whether they are supposed to be running walk or racking.

    I was always told that a true rack has more HOCK not more knee. In the old days there was a marked difference between the running walk and the rack.



  19. #4819
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    This video shows an example of the "type" of racking horses I have seen around here. Correct me if I am wrong, but that appears to be their natural way of going.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOn0Q2rSrFQ

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  20. #4820
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    A major equine lawyer has responded to me.

    Leo

    The problem with wording is interpretation. Is a "Racking Horse" different from a horse who has been trained to rack.

    You mentioned a defining factor could be an announcer yelling.."Rack On"

    It is my belief that a group could challenge the word, Rack, in the courts nd a judge with little to no equine horse experience would make the determination.

    He/She would be at a disadvantage due to the nuance of the word, Racking Horse Breed and a Horse that is trained to Rack.

    You have every right to be concerned. As should, all horse breed groups and breeders/owners.

    Good Luck

    Paul



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