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  1. #4741
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    If you can allow prior restraint regarding animals, why not people? What's to stop the legislature from passing the same law as applies to day care centers? Rest homes? Hospitals?
    We already have such law.
    You have to report any abuse as soon as you are thinking there is any, as a teacher, doctor or any one that is aware of any.
    My understanding is that you are breaking laws if you don't, has been for decades now.
    No one would have accepted what the HSUS seems to do, sit on abuse videos until it suits them and present them altered.

    I expect some of those laws will be contested where they passed, the HSUS doesn't has 50+ lawyers to just sit around, gives them some to do to study all that and find any and all to their employer's advantage, as they should.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #4742
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by BabyGreen View Post
    Dolores Gresham, co-sponsor of the "Ag-Gag" bill lives in Fayette County where she runs a livestock market with her husband. She sits on the Agricultural Committee, which approves state grants for farm improvements. Her husband has received over $35K in such grants since 2006.

    I don't know of this has been posted, but Jackie McConnell and his co-conspiritors have been indicted in criminal animal abuse charges by a Fayette County grand jury as of April 1.

    For some more good news, the Germantown Charity Horse show this year will only offer classes for lite and flat shot gaited horses. Some of the eliminated big lick classes have been replaced by Paso Fino classes.
    You need to read the whole thread where posters who appear to be in the know are clearly stating lite and flat shod gaited TWH (keg/plantation) ARE SORED also and it would appear it is a major problem. They have just taken it down a level from stacks and BL to all other divisions.

    Have you considered not offering any TWH classes untill they get their problems under control? All it will take is one TWH in an "alternate" class test positive and I think you might end up with law suits against the shows for allowing the breed. It sure brings the house down on ALL other gaited breeds.

    Tainted by association



  3. #4743
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    The only horse I've personally witnessed as 'fixed' AKA sored was a Lite Shod SSH. He passed inspection by the DQP and was shown at their version of the Celebration.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. (Steven Wright)



  4. #4744
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    Most of the regular posters including Aarpaso clearly stated that most entries from the big stables are sore, in those divisions, and that would mean ALL should be tested. If they don't and HSUS does a surprise visit to the show "collecting information" the show manager and secretary could be in a heck of a lot of trouble if HSUS decides to go after them.



  5. #4745
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    p.s. don't forget...now they can collect as long as they want and they sure can cause a lot or problems when they disclose their findings..and charges are laid against show managers and secretary's for NOT having inspections for ALL TWH's.

    They don't have to report it and give the show a heads up that they need to be doing something...will be interesting to see how this plays out...



  6. #4746
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Most of the regular posters including Aarpaso clearly stated that most entries from the big stables are sore, in those divisions, and that would mean ALL should be tested. If they don't and HSUS does a surprise visit to the show "collecting information" the show manager and secretary could be in a heck of a lot of trouble if HSUS decides to go after them.

    Tested for what and how? Every horse shown is inspected by a DQP. What is this mythical test you conjured out of thin air???
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. (Steven Wright)



  7. #4747
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    Apr. 3, 2007
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    im bein noticed how wonderful.

    Katarine,you are correct at SSH TWH and Racking shows a DQP is there to inspect.and ticket violators.



  8. #4748
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    Jan. 19, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    It was shopped around and I do have confirmation that PBS did turn it down. Too provocative.

    I believe it was ABC that picked it up. Please contact them and ask them how long they were in negotiations for. I believe you will have it confirmed that it was several months. Call them..and post who you spoke with from the Diane Sawyer camp and "her" extension.

    My point however was there was ONE video. There was not 2 or 4 of 6 or 10 gathered documenting repeated abuse. There was ONE...

    Okay..I will bite...lets just "say" it was taken on a Friday and bless their little black hearts..HSUS only had it in their possession for 2 weeks before it went to air

    That blows your defence that MORE evidence needs to be collected to guaranty a conviction.

    Either it was shopped and took quite some time OR it was shopped and only took a day or two to hit the air..

    You choose..but you still lose.
    There is never a guarantee of a conviction.



  9. #4749
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    Quote Originally Posted by katarine View Post
    Tested for what and how? Every horse shown is inspected by a DQP. What is this mythical test you conjured out of thin air???
    Soring substances. If they are using them on non BL TWH's then I believe that also is a violation and they should all be checked.

    I liked the idea where every owner would pay an additional $25.00 per class as a fee to pay independent checkers..



  10. #4750
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by aarpaso View Post
    im bein noticed how wonderful.

    Katarine,you are correct at SSH TWH and Racking shows a DQP is there to inspect.and ticket violators.

    Waves at aarpaso!!!!

    It is a great day - any word on Wheelon?
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4751
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Soring substances. If they are using them on non BL TWH's then I believe that also is a violation and they should all be checked.

    I liked the idea where every owner would pay an additional $25.00 per class as a fee to pay independent checkers..

    LOL you really don't know a damn thing about how the DQP process works, that much is obvious.
    A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. (Steven Wright)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4752
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Thrilled about today's news.

    Obviously there are still individuals in government who do their research before they sign some BS legislation into law.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #4753
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    Apr. 3, 2007
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    word on Wheelon,WORRIED,he could be the one to bite the new law bullet,1 to 5 on every animal abuse charge,so its maybe bye bye for at least a yr. the bongos are sayin more charges are pending. could be some civil charges from owners.
    so they can prove they did not know how he trained its called cover my A$$$ so i don't get charged as an accomplice to abuse. it just don't look real good for the ole Wheelon.

    south winds are singing that even the Ala.Fla.Ga. Miss.BL folks are thinking twice.
    second thoughts about showing with PHSA.

    HOW SAD!
    im doing the Happy Dance for all the TWH that wont be crying in pain.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4754
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    Apr. 25, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Most of the regular posters including Aarpaso clearly stated that most entries from the big stables are sore, in those divisions, and that would mean ALL should be tested. If they don't and HSUS does a surprise visit to the show "collecting information" the show manager and secretary could be in a heck of a lot of trouble if HSUS decides to go after them.
    All horses at TWH, RH and SSH shows must go through DQP inspection which is palpation of the area of leg around the coronary band the the bulbs of the heels. They are checking for scars and for any reaction to the pain of the palpation. DQP's working through the sanctioned HIO's do not do soring compound testing or xrays for things that may be in the hoof. They don't have the time or the funds to do so.

    Occasionally at the bigger shows (and other random shows throughout the year when no one expects them to be there) the USDA will show up and they DO have the equipment to do the chemical testing and the xrays and in some instances they use thermography. However, the chemical tests take a week to 10 days to get results since they have to be sent to a lab.

    HSUS has no need to do a surprise visit to the show "collecting information" because as I and others have told you repeatedly, the horses are sored back at the barn in the days leading up to the show. Soring agents are NOT applied on the show grounds. The show grounds are too available to the average Joe, so you won't find much at all going on in the barn area. The horses are required to go through DQP and after doing so, must go to the warm up area as a sort of containment area.

    Show managers are protected from USDA trouble by hiring the DQP's to do inspection.



  15. #4755
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    Apr. 25, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Soring substances. If they are using them on non BL TWH's then I believe that also is a violation and they should all be checked.

    I liked the idea where every owner would pay an additional $25.00 per class as a fee to pay independent checkers..

    The machine used to check for soring substances runs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Independent HIO's (Horse Industry Organizations who supply DQP's to check the horses) do not have this kind of money.....never have, never will. Not only that, the typical Gas Chromatograph machine is not transportable.

    There are already independent checkers...........they are called DQP and are paid by the individual shows who arrange for their attendance by contacting an HIO.



  16. #4756
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    Apr. 25, 2013
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    Silly internet access LOL Double posted again

    Aarpaso, would you mind if I sent you a private message?



  17. #4757
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    May. 16, 2007
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    http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/5/1...hDZ4k.facebook

    Roy Exum: Animal Thugs Turn To Congress
    Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - by Roy Exum

    Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam did the right thing when he vetoed an Ag-Gag bill that the Tennessee Legislature had approved on Monday. If approved, the bill would have violated the U.S. Constitution. Similar laws have failed in 11 states this year because they also are travesties to justice -- punishing the reporter instead of the criminal, and greatly hamper law enforcement efforts.

    So what do the crooks do now? It’s real easy. The U.S. House Agriculture Committee will meet Wednesday in Washington to “mark up” the Farm Bill. This is where those on the committee have five minutes in which they can change certain parts of the bill by offering amendments if they are approved by committee.
    Believe it or not, there are some evil people on the Agriculture committee.

    There are two of these amendments creating a great stir among animal welfare groups. The first is totally outlandish. Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) wants to take away the state’s right to regulate how their food is prepared. His plan would eliminate all local and county ordinances. Wayne Pacelle, the president of the Humane Society of the United States, told me over the weekend, “The King Amendment is a threat to every consumer and to every animal in agriculture.”

    Here is an example: This morning a “dirty lick” horse trainer, Larry Wheelon, will be hauled before a court in Maryville, Tenn., for aggravated animal abuse. King’s amendment would supersede state laws and Wheelon would really love that because he and others like him would have far weaker laws than Tennessee’s new felony to slip past. As it stands Wheelon is looking at one-to-five years in prison, but – under existing federal laws – animal abuse is still a misdemeanor. (There is another bill pending that would greatly enhance the federal Horse Protection act.)

    The King Amendment would effectively overturn every voter-approved animal welfare effort in the country. It is unknown whether Rep. King is any kin to author Stephen King, but the Iowa Congressman is more horrifying. Imagine no state laws for environmental protection, workers’ rights, animal welfare or public health. The action is so far-reaching it is deplorable that it would even be introduced.

    King has spent 10 years trying to block any and all animal welfare laws. He even opposes laws that would include pets in disaster planning. Obviously driven by “big ag” money – the food industry – King’s amendment would – what! – allow horses to be slaughtered for food, encourage extreme confinement for chickens, pigs and calves; the list goes on and on.

    The second amendment being considered is closer to home. It is illegal in 49 states to be a knowing spectator at an animal fight, but only 43 states outlaw cock fighting. Drive in any direction from Chattanooga and within the hour you can see where fighting roosters are being housed. That’s because there is money to be had from fighting dogs and chickens.

    You would think that when NFL quarterback Michael Vick served 18 months in Leavenworth it would serve a deterrent, but, no, shallow people still attend dog and chicken fights and an amendment by James McGovern (D-Mass) would make it a felony to “knowing attend or knowingly cause a minor to attend an animal fighting venture.”

    In other words, who is going to attend an animal fight if they face over a year in prison. The idea, of course, is if Congress dries up the crowd, the same thing happens to the money. Sadly, cowards still have a lust for blood money, but the more that can be done to discourages the creeps, the better it is for a civilized society.

    Tennessee, which is slowly making inroads on the fact it is the nation’s epicenter for horse abuse, has just arrested its second “dirty lick” horse trainer in a year and animal welfare authorities are searching for the owners of the 27 horses now being held at a secret location. If authorities can prove that the owners of horses confiscated from Jackie McConnell and Larry Wheelon knowingly had the horses sored, it is believed they could also be charged.

    “This is all new ground,” one federal agent explained. “We are very careful to video these horses being examined and how each swab is handled,” but he indicated that both physical and scientific evidence that will be introduced in court today is “overwhelming.”

    Wheelon, a member of the ethics committee of the Walking Horse Trainer’s Association, has a long and colorful history of violating the federal Horse Protection Act and many of those sitting on the governing boards of the National Celebration groups have also been suspended for illegal soring and sadistic practices.

    Law enforcement officials, enabled when the state legislature made livestock abuse a felony, are currently investigating other walking horse trainers, but if Steve King’s amendment gains traction, it is just like Pacelle said, “It is a threat to every consumer and animal in the country.

    Two Tennesseans serve on the Agriculture Committee, Steven Fincher (R-Frog Jump) and Scott Desjarlais (R-Jasper.) Fincher just responded quickly when Philadelphia abortionist Dr. Kermit Gosnell was found guilty, his comments lending hope he’ll oppose the King amendment. He said, “Today’s first-degree murder conviction of Dr. Gosnell shows there is hope. Hope that we can change our culture that accepts such actions. Hope that we can save little babies that bring so much love and joy to our lives."

    “The jury members put politics aside and came to the conclusion that Dr. Gosnell had murdered these innocent babies,” said Fincher. “It is my hope that folks educate themselves on what Dr. Gosnell was doing and fight in their communities to save the lives of so many precious babies.”

    While one would hope he has similar views on animals, Desjarlais is altogether of a different stripe. This fall the “Dirty Lick” crowd sponsored a reception for him and it is widely known he has placed pressure on the Department of Agriculture’s efforts to curtail soring and torture. He also urged a former mistress to have an abortion, according to court records.

    Now claiming that God has forgiven him, DesJarlais can ill afford the wrath of animal welfare advocates who descended on Haslam when he faltered before vetoing the Ag-Gag bill.

    royexum@aol.com
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  18. #4758
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    The plot thickens.

    Though it always has been a fight on many fronts hasn't it?
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  19. #4759
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    http://www.chattanoogan.com/2013/5/1...hDZ4k.facebook

    Roy Exum: Animal Thugs Turn To Congress
    Tuesday, May 14, 2013 - by Roy Exum

    Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam did the right thing when he vetoed an Ag-Gag bill that the Tennessee Legislature had approved on Monday. If approved, the bill would have violated the U.S. Constitution. Similar laws have failed in 11 states this year because they also are travesties to justice -- punishing the reporter instead of the criminal, and greatly hamper law enforcement efforts.

    So what do the crooks do now? It’s real easy. The U.S. House Agriculture Committee will meet Wednesday in Washington to “mark up” the Farm Bill. This is where those on the committee have five minutes in which they can change certain parts of the bill by offering amendments if they are approved by committee.
    Believe it or not, there are some evil people on the Agriculture committee.

    There are two of these amendments creating a great stir among animal welfare groups. The first is totally outlandish. Rep. Steve King (R-Iowa) wants to take away the state’s right to regulate how their food is prepared. His plan would eliminate all local and county ordinances. Wayne Pacelle, the president of the Humane Society of the United States, told me over the weekend, “The King Amendment is a threat to every consumer and to every animal in agriculture.”

    Here is an example: This morning a “dirty lick” horse trainer, Larry Wheelon, will be hauled before a court in Maryville, Tenn., for aggravated animal abuse. King’s amendment would supersede state laws and Wheelon would really love that because he and others like him would have far weaker laws than Tennessee’s new felony to slip past. As it stands Wheelon is looking at one-to-five years in prison, but – under existing federal laws – animal abuse is still a misdemeanor. (There is another bill pending that would greatly enhance the federal Horse Protection act.)

    The King Amendment would effectively overturn every voter-approved animal welfare effort in the country. It is unknown whether Rep. King is any kin to author Stephen King, but the Iowa Congressman is more horrifying. Imagine no state laws for environmental protection, workers’ rights, animal welfare or public health. The action is so far-reaching it is deplorable that it would even be introduced.

    King has spent 10 years trying to block any and all animal welfare laws. He even opposes laws that would include pets in disaster planning. Obviously driven by “big ag” money – the food industry – King’s amendment would – what! – allow horses to be slaughtered for food, encourage extreme confinement for chickens, pigs and calves; the list goes on and on.

    The second amendment being considered is closer to home. It is illegal in 49 states to be a knowing spectator at an animal fight, but only 43 states outlaw cock fighting. Drive in any direction from Chattanooga and within the hour you can see where fighting roosters are being housed. That’s because there is money to be had from fighting dogs and chickens.

    You would think that when NFL quarterback Michael Vick served 18 months in Leavenworth it would serve a deterrent, but, no, shallow people still attend dog and chicken fights and an amendment by James McGovern (D-Mass) would make it a felony to “knowing attend or knowingly cause a minor to attend an animal fighting venture.”

    In other words, who is going to attend an animal fight if they face over a year in prison. The idea, of course, is if Congress dries up the crowd, the same thing happens to the money. Sadly, cowards still have a lust for blood money, but the more that can be done to discourages the creeps, the better it is for a civilized society.

    Tennessee, which is slowly making inroads on the fact it is the nation’s epicenter for horse abuse, has just arrested its second “dirty lick” horse trainer in a year and animal welfare authorities are searching for the owners of the 27 horses now being held at a secret location. If authorities can prove that the owners of horses confiscated from Jackie McConnell and Larry Wheelon knowingly had the horses sored, it is believed they could also be charged.

    “This is all new ground,” one federal agent explained. “We are very careful to video these horses being examined and how each swab is handled,” but he indicated that both physical and scientific evidence that will be introduced in court today is “overwhelming.”

    Wheelon, a member of the ethics committee of the Walking Horse Trainer’s Association, has a long and colorful history of violating the federal Horse Protection Act and many of those sitting on the governing boards of the National Celebration groups have also been suspended for illegal soring and sadistic practices.

    Law enforcement officials, enabled when the state legislature made livestock abuse a felony, are currently investigating other walking horse trainers, but if Steve King’s amendment gains traction, it is just like Pacelle said, “It is a threat to every consumer and animal in the country.

    Two Tennesseans serve on the Agriculture Committee, Steven Fincher (R-Frog Jump) and Scott Desjarlais (R-Jasper.) Fincher just responded quickly when Philadelphia abortionist Dr. Kermit Gosnell was found guilty, his comments lending hope he’ll oppose the King amendment. He said, “Today’s first-degree murder conviction of Dr. Gosnell shows there is hope. Hope that we can change our culture that accepts such actions. Hope that we can save little babies that bring so much love and joy to our lives."

    “The jury members put politics aside and came to the conclusion that Dr. Gosnell had murdered these innocent babies,” said Fincher. “It is my hope that folks educate themselves on what Dr. Gosnell was doing and fight in their communities to save the lives of so many precious babies.”

    While one would hope he has similar views on animals, Desjarlais is altogether of a different stripe. This fall the “Dirty Lick” crowd sponsored a reception for him and it is widely known he has placed pressure on the Department of Agriculture’s efforts to curtail soring and torture. He also urged a former mistress to have an abortion, according to court records.

    Now claiming that God has forgiven him, DesJarlais can ill afford the wrath of animal welfare advocates who descended on Haslam when he faltered before vetoing the Ag-Gag bill.

    royexum@aol.com
    Oh, wow, another bad journalism article, way biased by it's wording, hatchet job.

    He "forget" to mention those bills have passed in 9 states.
    He forgets the illustrious president of the HSUS is no choir boy and is himself after his agenda, that ultimately will eliminate all uses of animals.

    That kind of lopsided writing doesn't help his cause any, just shows them to be as much a thug with the facts and truth as he is accusing the other side.

    People, these are battles about much else than each one little skirmish as this one.
    Truly, our rights to have, care for and use animals do hang in the balance.

    While we want and need to demand that we do what we do with all animals in a humane way, we better not let those after eliminating all uses, that consider all uses inherently inhumane, as those animal rights extremist groups are after, tell us how, because anyone following them knows where they are leading.

    "No one is as blind as those that don't want to see" is right.



  20. #4760
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    The plot thickens.

    Though it always has been a fight on many fronts hasn't it?
    Yes, that is what I hope some will start to realize now, see my previous post.

    The HSUS is playing a chess game with our rights to have and care for and use animals.

    Many are still thinking they are just offering us chess pieces to play with.
    Many have not caught onto the reality that we are playing in that chess game.

    We need to quit admiring those pretty pieces and start learning to play.



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