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  1. #4181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    To those of us who are not familar to any great extent regarding your breed could you please clarrify one point. You say "thousands" of stackers to go and yet others state that BL is a small small small...minute group within the show crowd.

    Thanks
    Thousands as in barns and barns and barns full. Attend pretty much any TWH or Racking Horse show in the state of TN, KY, AL, etc. and you will find classes full of sored horses. The majority of sore horses and sore horse trainers have zero inclination to head to Shelbyville as they can make a very nice living just doing the local scene. And don't for one minute think that the only sore horses are the ones on pads.....plenty of the rest of them are sored as well.


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  2. #4182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    "How many times a day do you beat your wife" type questions now?

    Sorry, animal rights extremists are just that, extremists that will say and propose any and all, just so their agenda gets a platform, as several are doing here, on a horse using website, from all places.

    Remember, the HSUS supposedly sat on this video/s for OVER A YEAR!

    Now, that should be reason to take them to court on knowing of the abuse, having proof of it and sitting on that, which I think is at least unethical if not a crime.

    NO ONE needs months when they have such a damning video, that is nonsense.

    The HSUS has also declared that this year they would launch an assault on all we do with animals in the political arena and would release one abuse video a month.

    Again, why hold onto those videos, while abuse goes on and on?

    There is NO excusing that, at all.
    Let me give this a shot There have been MANY video's made over the years however getting main stream media or any other major world wide media service to air the dirty laundry has not been nearly as easy as you seem to surmise. This abuse didn't just start a year or so ago and you can not begin to imagine the things that have happened to people who have desperately tried to bring this issue to light.


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  3. #4183
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    Seems to me, the ones who should also be prosecuted are those who claim it is widespread and everywhere! Why not lock up cleanuptn since they have helped it continue by not doing a thing about it?
    Unfortunately, hsus/peta have penetrated every inch of the interwebs with their sleepers who rear their heads whenever beckoned by Wayne. Abusers should be identified and prosecuted immediately, not after 18 months or years. These tactics by hsus and their sycophants are the 'golden goose' for hsus. They don't want the money to dry up when they must actually give their tape to REAL law enforcement officials promptly instead of ripping off the gullible public which jumps to the donation pleas by wayne. Anyone fighting these ag laws is nothing but a wayne sleeper who must be paid by hsus and don't want their gravy train to crash!



  4. #4184
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    Quote Originally Posted by CleanUpTN View Post
    Let me give this a shot There have been MANY video's made over the years however getting main stream media or any other major world wide media service to air the dirty laundry has not been nearly as easy as you seem to surmise. This abuse didn't just start a year or so ago and you can not begin to imagine the things that have happened to people who have desperately tried to bring this issue to light.
    Oh, good, a new poster, or a late to the party houseguest.

    Maybe if you look at these animal rights extremist groups a bit closer you will understand my point.

    Those groups have one main goal, eliminate any use of animals by humans, against reason, since that use is what this world and humans evolved with and made us who we are.

    Animal rights extremists groups spent years now getting rich of the propaganda that making all kinds of videos and stories of abuse brought them.
    Then using that money on propaganda attacking whatever is handy at the time, animal agriculture, horse slaughter, the carriage horses, especially in NYC, see post 282:

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...-post-1/page15

    Now you tell me they, all that time, were not aware of the situation with these horses, where true abuse was ongoing as a standard practice for so many?
    The way I read this situation, they took some videos, who knows how many and for how long, then sat on them until the lobbying was just right for their cause and then used them to advance their agenda.

    Can you see why some have questions about how this happen to just be so handy a situation for them to step in now, when it was to their advantage for whatever goals they have, that ultimately is the elimination of all humans do with animals and "none too soon for me"?

    Does anyone really think that video, taken to the police and press right then when taken, would not have been as effective in starting a serious investigation, as it did now?
    Tell me in which world does that makes any sense?

    It is very curious that, when the misnamed "ag gag law" is being discussed, now this abuse video shows up and a drive is mounted to finally out these abuses, at the same time some are trying to fight that law, that would eliminate just this kind of feet dragging with abuse information and so letting the abuse continue?

    That law may need tweaking to be better, but it seems a good idea for the problem at hand, people using abuse information for their own agendas, as animal rights groups have been doing for years now, while abuse continues.

    My point is, abuse can have many faces.
    Abusing the abuse situation itself, by not acting on it right away, sitting on it until it fits one's goals, that ought to be also objectionable.

    I am glad that these trainers are getting exposed and I hope tar and feathered if not hung, along with those that helped them do it.
    What they did is absolutely terrible, ugh.



  5. #4185
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    Bluey - It does not surprise me that you do not recognize the reflection in the mirror when held up to you. And you are one scary person if you infer I am a plant of any group.

    But trust me here when I say I do not find you or those that post your similar rhetoric to be the speaker or "plant" for the slaughter house industry, nor the Anti-Animal Rights Acton/HSUS. I give you - Bluey - total credit for what you have net educated yourself to know and share. And I doubt you hold any position other than the lady of the farm you enjoy. Or do you hold or act in an official position for a group? If so would you share it?

    But why you - a self informed individual - find it necessary to infer that any on a message board are plants may just be a result of your self educating effort. I think you bought the rhetoric you read where ever you read it lock stock and barrel. From what I read of your position it indeed reflects the same net activism that did a good job of convincing certain readers that the FBI carried out the Boston bombing and it brought accusations, harassment and grief to a Muslim's family whose son was missing.

    In your post above you ask questions of what people think. If answers are not those which reflect your opinion, you for sure are gonna hail down more rhetoric of "they are coming to take your animals away, ha-haa"

    So... I am seeing we need a little calamine lotion here.

    http://www.ringtonematcher.com/go/?s...+Away,+Ha-Haaa!
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  6. #4186
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    CleanUpTN - your viewpoint carries great weight on this thread. I look forward to reading your posts.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


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  7. #4187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you really saying what I think you are?
    If you are stating that I am defending animal abusers, you, a defender of animal rights extremists, well, I rest my case.

    I have read some very absurd comments, but that one is about the most laughable of all.

    I sure hope that editing won't delete the insulting posts, copied for posteriority.
    Somehow, I doubt it.
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous


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  8. #4188
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    Bluey - It does not surprise me that you do not recognize the reflection in the mirror when held up to you. And you are one scary person if you infer I am a plant of any group.

    But trust me here when I say I do not find you or those that post your similar rhetoric to be the speaker or "plant" for the slaughter house industry, nor the Anti-Animal Rights Acton/HSUS. I give you - Bluey - total credit for what you have net educated yourself to know and share. And I doubt you hold any position other than the lady of the farm you enjoy. Or do you hold or act in an official position for a group? If so would you share it?

    But why you - a self informed individual - find it necessary to infer that any on a message board are plants may just be a result of your self educating effort. I think you bought the rhetoric you read where ever you read it lock stock and barrel. From what I read of your position it indeed reflects the same net activism that did a good job of convincing certain readers that the FBI carried out the Boston bombing and it brought accusations, harassment and grief to a Muslim's family whose son was missing.

    In your post above you ask questions of what people think. If answers are not those which reflect your opinion, you for sure are gonna hail down more rhetoric of "they are coming to take your animals away, ha-haa"

    So... I am seeing we need a little calamine lotion here.

    http://www.ringtonematcher.com/go/?s...+Away,+Ha-Haaa!
    Repeating, maybe this time you will understand better.
    Reading your response, what I said seems to have gone over your head:

    ---"My point is, abuse can have many faces.
    Abusing the abuse situation itself, by not acting on it right away, sitting on it until it fits one's goals, that ought to be also objectionable."---



  9. #4189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Again, what does that has anything to do, other than animal rights extremist tactics to change the conversation of what is objectionable, what the HSUS did here?
    Bluey - HSUS is a moot point. There was no crime. Which is why you are in favor of the Ag Gag laws. Were they in effect - what HSUS did would have been a crime. The laws will stop any further "legal" effort of theirs to carry out such undercover "video crimes."

    But as CleanUpTN pointed out (and many many others as well) these crimes have been going on for decades. And for decades law enforcement has not seen the need to go undercover and gather evidence to prosecute these criminals.

    So we have decades of abuse with folks looking the other way. We have HSUS filming the abuse over a relatively short period of time and bringing enough outrage to call for the HPA laws to be amp'd up, and to amp up the animal abuse laws in Tennessee. In my opinion, HSUS still gets a hero's gold medal for going in and getting enough evidence to shake up the decades long history of the public's apathy and the county, state and federal apathy toward the abuse.

    Matters not to me if HSUS was opportunistic ($)to the abuse host. In my view of the big scheme - so too was every group who stood by and did nothing. We were all "opportunistic" in not wanting to pay the cost of getting involved.

    So in my big scheme opinion of things, if HSUS and their undercover efforts now result in a new Ag Gag law - and that law now becomes the cost of their stepping in when others did not - well I will consider it the cost they have to bear of getting involved.


    But what I am thinking may come to pass is that this threat of prosecuting legitimate whistle blowers who are "slow" to report will now make local law enforcement act quicker on evidence produced. And what I am hoping is that this most recent "bust" of a TWH soring hall of fame'r is indeed one that sparked from the Smack the Whistle Blower Act (aka Ag Gag).

    And might just be some whistle blower got $10,000 to turn the evidence in.

    It would be perfect Karma.

    One reason I would love to see the warrant or know how the tip came to bring the warrant.
    Last edited by hurleycane; Apr. 27, 2013 at 08:21 AM.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #4190
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    I think you missed my question Bluey - are you a paid official of any pro-slaughter house or anti-animal rights effort?
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


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  11. #4191
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    Towards the bottom a citizen tells her story of how hard it was to get help for abused horses. If that bill becomes law, her actions would have been illegal.

    http://www.wsmv.com/story/22090137/t...mal-abuse-bill
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


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  12. #4192
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    Towards the bottom a citizen tells her story of how hard it was to get help for abused horses. If that bill becomes law, her actions would have been illegal.

    http://www.wsmv.com/story/22090137/t...mal-abuse-bill

    With the directed comments on this thread, in particular Bluey's, it was not lost on me that the citizen had to preface her identity and purpose comments the way she did.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  13. #4193
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    bluey, Fairfax et al, why don't you take your anti HSUS and anti PETA ramblings to those threads that cater to HSUS and PETA.

    Stop this BS on a thread that is NOT about you or your hatred towards those organizations.

    This thread is for those of us who are following the tremendous efforts and hopefully successes to put an end to the BL abuse.

    Do you guys really have to ruin EVERYTHING that pertains to helping horses?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


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  14. #4194
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    I think you missed my question Bluey - are you a paid official of any pro-slaughter house or anti-animal rights effort?
    Again, the "how many times a day do you beat your wife question"?

    "Are you paid by animal rights extremist groups" would be the same type question, that I don't think is proper here either, so have not asked it, although I think it is obvious some here seem to be.

    I have said time and again and again and again that no, I am not paid by anyone, don't even belong to any other than the horse associations I register horses thru or have horses to show with, just as many here do the USET.

    Then, what "horse slaughter" could have been paying anyone, when we don't have had any for years now in the USA.

    I have worked with people that worked at some time with animal rights extremist groups and the stories they tell would make your hair stand on end.
    That is why I try to warn people, as here, to be careful, there is more to what any of those groups may do than some of the seemingly very naive posters think of them when they defend them, as here.
    Our rights to have animals under our care, here horses, may depend on people being more informed than some seem to be.

    We will have to agree to disagree if you think animal rights extremist and their extremely rich non-profits are such choir boy clean associations.



  15. #4195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Again, the "how many times a day do you beat your wife question"?

    "Are you paid by animal rights extremist groups" would be the same type question, that I don't think is proper here either, so have not asked it, although I think it is obvious some here seem to be.

    I have said time and again and again and again that no, I am not paid by anyone, don't even belong to any other than the horse associations I register horses thru or have horses to show with, just as many here do the USET.

    Then, what "horse slaughter" could have been paying anyone, when we don't have had any for years now in the USA.

    I have worked with people that worked at some time with animal rights extremist groups and the stories they tell would make your hair stand on end.
    That is why I try to warn people, as here, to be careful, there is more to what any of those groups may do than some of the seemingly very naive posters think of them when they defend them, as here.
    Our rights to have animals under our care, here horses, may depend on people being more informed than some seem to be.

    We will have to agree to disagree if you think animal rights extremist and their extremely rich non-profits are such choir boy clean associations.
    I once thought absolute thinking (black/white) was a signature of youth. I guess I was wrong. False dichotomy does not win debates.



  16. #4196
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    You know, really, the best thing to do is to put the more offensive posters on ignore. They're only here for the attention. We need to stop giving it to them.

    It's a shame, because I do think Bluey does add something to the conversation when it doesn't include slaughter, HSUS or PETA.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  17. #4197
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I once thought absolute thinking (black/white) was a signature of youth. I guess I was wrong. False dichotomy does not win debates.
    Neither wins debates to keep deflecting when you have nothing to say to the other side, they happen to bring to the table indisputable arguments.

    Shooting the messenger has never worked for long, most people are not that naive.

    I will say, good that something is being done about this terrible situation, hopefully the air will clear and this part of the horse world change for the better.

    Now, if some want to then say animal rights extremists are so wonderful and caring to help, then, sorry, that just won't fly without someone explaining that is maybe not quite so, as some have done here when that came up.
    Last edited by Bluey; Apr. 27, 2013 at 11:07 AM.



  18. #4198
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    I would like to point out that ONE WOMAN in Canada lobbied and fought against EVERYONE until Big Lick was made illegal. This was in the 70's.

    Slaughter in the US was stopped (not banned) by PEOPLE. (whether or not I agree or disagree is moot)

    TWH industry has had numerous opportunities to stop it. HOW? Protests and signs...going on local TV stalions...(okay..in some areas they might not give someone the time).

    However there are many many ways.

    What the TWH folk appeared to do was splinter into numerous groups. Danes..a well known TWH enthusiast is now with HSUS but in 30 years HE claimed he was powerless.

    I admire you for keeping the fight going..but the "gag" law is NOT your enemy.

    It is NOT going to stop prosecution. It is not going to stop guilty pleas..it IS going to stop HSUS from making money off of the suffering of other horses.

    HSUS have, for many years...altered tapes, like, paid for liars to perjur themselves and this will bring all of this to a halt. It will actually shine a light on the problem and on the offenders.

    Maybe..since this is so widespread in some pretty backwood states..all racking should be illegal UNLESS it is at a USEF sponsored show.



  19. #4199
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    bluey, Fairfax et al, why don't you take your anti HSUS and anti PETA ramblings to those threads that cater to HSUS and PETA.

    Stop this BS on a thread that is NOT about you or your hatred towards those organizations.

    This thread is for those of us who are following the tremendous efforts and hopefully successes to put an end to the BL abuse.

    Do you guys really have to ruin EVERYTHING that pertains to helping horses?
    I really haven't noticed your involvement on this thread very much. I appear to have a record, right or wrong of having posted NON PETA and HSUS posts here. My concern was the call to ban all training devices for all breeds.

    Due to my lack of direct knowledge on the breed I have asked questions..against NON hsus and peta...so I could better understand.

    I was critical of the delay in the video expose BEFORE anything erupted into PETA and HSUS

    Therefore I find your few posts on this thread and your new found interest in the TWH to be somewhat suspect. And you are supporting JENM as per your signature and she supports PETA and a radical person..who wants to end all horse shows..not just clean them up.



  20. #4200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    And you are supporting JENM as per your signature and she supports PETA and a radical person..who wants to end all horse shows..not just clean them up.
    My signature? You need glasses so you quit getting people mixed up.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



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