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  1. #4101
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    They may win the battle but they rarely if ever win the war.
    Yeah, but it took how many years and how many millions of lives and billions of dollars to win some of those wars? It is not better to avoid the war in the first instance?

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #4102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    What is the Object of the Exercise?

    If it's to stop the abuse soonest then the 24 hour rule is a Good Thing. It puts authorities on notice and, if they don't act, then they get to explain why to the cameras, microphones, etc.

    If it's to build a case for prosecution then the 24 hour rule is questionable. It can take time to build a case for prosecution. Of course, while the case is building the pain for the horse is unremitted. That's a fact that the opponents seem to be willing to ignore.

    In the McConnell matter HSUS had that video for long time. The public snippets show horrific images; I wonder what the rest of the raw video shows?

    Frankly, "altered evidence" by proponents of a position is not so uncommon. That's why the Rules of Evidence anywhere that I'm aware of are quite specific about laying a proper foundation before it's admitted and presented to a fact finder. A requirement that the video or photo evidence presented to the authorities meet at least a minimum standard for admission into evidence is a Good Thing. I've worked as a volunteer in our local DA's office for almost 20 years and false charges with trumped up "proof" are part and parcel of the job. Indeed, since I'm at the bottom of the ladder, I'm one of the people who do some of the "digging" when questionable stuff is presented.

    The biggest problems come from prosecutors*, police officers or private citizens, with "an ax to grind." I have been personally involved with multiple instances of out and out perjury by both types of prosecutors.

    So this proposed "time limit law" has both positive and negative aspects. To call it a "gag law" is a gross, intentional distortion of fact. Shame on those who engage in such tactics. Fair minded people don't engage in such tactics. When they do we can conclude that they are not fair minded but rather are zealots intent on a goal without regard to the damage they might do while achieving their goal.

    As a personal aside, I don't care if the whole cast of the Grand Ole Oprey shows up in the Governors office. They've got a right to an opinion like anyone else. That can sing and sell records does not make their opinion any more valid. Ditto for Hollyweird celebrities.

    G.

    *In TN the word "prosecutor" can mean an officer or civilian making a criminal charge. In some places they are called "complaining witnesses" or the like. They may also be the victim of a crime, but need not be.
    If you think for one second those that author and support these types of bills are not zealots in their own right, you have not been paying attention to current events. If this bill is fair and just, why are the creepy people behind it? Hell I wouldn't even necessarily need to read it, if the BL people are in support I know who it helps.

    Where is the republican outrage that government is too big etc.? Rhetorical....


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  3. #4103
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    If you think for one second those that author and support these types of bills are not zealots in their own right, you have not been paying attention to current events. If this bill is fair and just, why are the creepy people behind it? Hell I wouldn't even necessarily need to read it, if the BL people are in support I know who it helps.

    Where is the republican outrage that government is too big etc.? Rhetorical....


    Ahem, you can't get any creepier than animal rights extremists:

    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=6510



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  4. #4104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post


    Ahem, you can't get any creepier than animal rights extremists:

    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?p=6510

    I read that and was sickened! That guy isn't who he says he is and claims to be. I could barely sit through reading that whole blog post.



  5. #4105
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonterStables View Post
    I read that and was sickened! That guy isn't who he says he is and claims to be. I could barely sit through reading that whole blog post.
    All sides have their good and less than good people.

    BUT, which side has generally more honest people, that I think I know who that is.



  6. #4106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    All sides have their good and less than good people.

    BUT, which side has generally more honest people, that I think I know who that is.
    And I know for sure which side is the wrong side just from reading that.



  7. #4107
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    Then there is the totally radical approach of judging a thing on its merits. It may require independent research and rarely results in pat answers, but instead of aligning with a person or group, think about the proposal in detail, its implications both good and bad in the real world, and make a reasoned, educated and logical decision.

    If both liberals and conservatives would at least try to do this, I'd sleep much better.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  8. #4108
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugalannie View Post
    Then there is the totally radical approach of judging a thing on its merits. It may require independent research and rarely results in pat answers, but instead of aligning with a person or group, think about the proposal in detail, its implications both good and bad in the real world, and make a reasoned, educated and logical decision.

    If both liberals and conservatives would at least try to do this, I'd sleep much better.
    Here here! Never a truer thing was said!
    Please support S. 1406 to amend the Horse Protection Act and Prevent all Soring Tactics to the Tennessee Walking horse!
    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/s1406


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  9. #4109
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogaitedgo View Post
    Extremists DO win. Islam. Communism. And when the extremists make the laws, you don't have the option of "laughing out loud right in their faces."

    They don't win in the United States.


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  10. #4110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Right, until they come after you just for being an "animal user", as they did the circus, with their bogus abuse card, that the circus went to court over and yes, the HSUS had paid $140,000 to someone to lay about the animals there being abused.

    That is when the HSUS was caught, but who knows how many other times they are not?

    Try to keep your eye on the ball.
    When it comes to animal rights extremists is not being paranoid to think there is more than meets the eye in what they do, see previous paragraphs.
    Some times, if you are paranoid or not, they really are after you.
    The HSUS is after ALL our uses of animals.
    Their "help" here just one more place for them to complain about humans being abusers, as they were here, with reason this time, maybe not when they come after what you do with your horses.
    If I'm doing what is being done in those videos, they should come after me.
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    They don't win in the United States.
    Really?

    Tell us what happened after the American Revolution to the Torries who supported the Crown?

    Ever hear of "Reconstruction?"

    Or "Jim Crow?"

    Or Prohibition?

    Or anti-German campaigns during WWI?

    Or Japanese Internment during WWII?

    How about the Long, Hot Summer of 1965?

    We've a long, sad history of "zealots" winning for varying lengths of time. We Americans are people like any other. We do good and bad things. We're not the New Chosen of God.

    At the end of the day if the Gov. signs it's not the end of the world. If he doesn't sign it's not the end of the world. Life goes on.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #4112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Really?

    Tell us what happened after the American Revolution to the Torries who supported the Crown?

    Ever hear of "Reconstruction?"

    Or "Jim Crow?"

    Or Prohibition?

    Or anti-German campaigns during WWI?

    Or Japanese Internment during WWII?

    How about the Long, Hot Summer of 1965?

    We've a long, sad history of "zealots" winning for varying lengths of time. We Americans are people like any other. We do good and bad things. We're not the New Chosen of God.

    At the end of the day if the Gov. signs it's not the end of the world. If he doesn't sign it's not the end of the world. Life goes on.

    G.

    Yes, really. We have evolved vastly from what you mention.



  13. #4113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Yes, really. We have evolved vastly from what you mention.
    Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. Yes, really, it's very naive to think it can't happen again.
    Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the person who doesn't get it.



  14. #4114
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    Quote Originally Posted by frugalannie View Post
    Then there is the totally radical approach of judging a thing on its merits. It may require independent research and rarely results in pat answers, but instead of aligning with a person or group, think about the proposal in detail, its implications both good and bad in the real world, and make a reasoned, educated and logical decision.

    If both liberals and conservatives would at least try to do this, I'd sleep much better.


    Thumbs up! Very well said and worth repeating - again!

    Fear mongering - leads to bad law bad decisions and generational decline. Fear mongering - cuts a swath and scatters people to hide and wring their hands and lash out with labels and such.

    Reasoned, educated and logical decision processes lead the way every time.


    "Think" is a four letter word for some.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #4115
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    Thumbs up! Very well said and worth repeating - again!

    Fear mongering - leads to bad law bad decisions and generational decline. Fear mongering - cuts a swath and scatters people to hide and wring their hands and lash out with labels and such.

    Reasoned, educated and logical decision processes lead the way every time.


    "Think" is a four letter word for some.
    You are referring there to the ever so pervasive animal rights extremist groups and their insidious propaganda, of course?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4116
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    You do toss the labels. And I must say you do show an amazing ability (this is sincere) to gaze in the mirror you hold up and not blush terribly.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #4117
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    May. 16, 2007
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    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  18. #4118
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    Abused horses removed from Larry Wheelon's "training" facility.

    http://www.thedailytimes.com/Breakin...ring-id-035747

    He has been charged with felony animal cruelty.

    http://www.humanesociety.org/news/pr...ue-042513.html
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #4119
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    May. 16, 2007
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    http://chattanoogan.com/2013/4/25/24...rged-With.aspx


    Breaking News

    Maryville Horse Trainer Charged With Felony Animal Cruelty
    Thursday, April 25, 2013

    A Maryville horse trainer has been charged with one count of felony animal cruelty on suspicions of soring after a raid on his farm.

    Authorities seized 19 horses at the barn of Larry Wheelon.

    Horse abuse carries a one-to-five year jail term on each count. Wheelon's arrest was the first in Tennessee since horse abuse became a felony last July.

    The Humane Society of the United States assisted the Blount County Sheriff’s Office, Blount County SPCA and Horse Haven of Tennessee with the seizure.

    Soring is the application of caustic chemicals and painful devices to the hooves and legs of horses to produce the artificial high-stepping “Big-Lick” gait for horse shows.

    Officials said additional charges are possible pending the outcome of the investigation.

    The sheriff’s office assisted in serving a search warrant last Thursday after receiving a tip about possible animal cruelty. Authorities said they discovered horses visibly in pain and several barely able to stand.

    Wheelon, who is an active director of the Tennessee Walking Horse Trainer’s Association and sits on its ethics committee, has been cited by inspectors at least 15 times for violations of the federal Horse Protection Act between 1993 and 2012. He is also a AAA-rated judge with Shelbyville, Tn.-based S.H.O.W, which is the largest of the USDA-certified horse industry organizations that self-police competitions.

    As the horses were being moved, one horse was found to be in such pain that when something brushed the animal’s bloody foreleg in a barn walkway, the animal rushed the experienced equine handler, badly cutting her face and breaking her leg. The handler, who has been working with horses for years, was transported by ambulance to a local hospital.

    The horse was quickly caught and sedated by veterinarians, who also began pain treatment for the animal.

    “Seeing these horses suffering so badly that they can hardly stand is heartbreaking, but being able to assist in this investigation and today’s rescue gives us some solace,” said Gino Bachman, president of the Blount County SPCA.

    Leighann McCollum, Tennessee state director for The HSUS, said: “These horses are clearly in extreme pain – some of them from having chemicals applied to their skin and bolts driven into the soles of their hooves. We are grateful to be able to help rescue them so they will no longer have to suffer like this, simply for the sake of a blue ribbon. We commend the Blount County SPCA and Blount County Sheriff’s Office for their hard work and dedication on this case.”

    Gino Bachman, president of Blount County SPCA, said: “Seeing these horses suffering so badly that they can hardly stand is heartbreaking, but being able to assist in this investigation and today’s rescue gives us some solace.”

    The horses will be thoroughly examined and receive any necessary immediate medical treatment and will be cared for at an undisclosed location pending the final disposition of this case, officials said.

    This is the second time in two years that a Tennessee walking horse trainer has faced animal cruelty charges in Tennessee. Last month, a Fayette County Grand Jury indicted former Tennessee Walking Horse Hall of Fame trainer Jackie McConnell and two co-defendants on 38 counts of animal cruelty for illegally soring and torturing horses.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #4120
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    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



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