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  1. #4021
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    Much more than meets the eye going on here for sure. Hope Preacher attends and gives an update.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #4022
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    Oct. 30, 2009
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    When will these idiots realize how unfeeling they have been to their horses and MOVE ON!!

    There's plenty of flash in natural horse showing enough to feed any ego without causing harm to the horses! Of course it means actually learning how to ride and train.

    Sorry, had to vent a bit. These people are so frustrating.
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #4023
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    Oct. 30, 2009
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    Latest from the "mainstream" media:

    http://www.nbcnews.com/business/tapi...rime-1B9251810
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4024
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2011
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    89

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    Three of the owners were present and witnessed the abuse of their horses. I used to have the names-- I can find them again if you want me to. Keith Dane has already noted that no owners have yet been charged, and they NEED to be charged.

    Of course the owners (some of which are ironically very rich) are less enthused about the idea of being charged for allowing their horses to be beaten, burned, shocked, and abused for a ribbon. After all, why should they have to be responsible for any of this? ~sarcasm font~


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #4025
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    To support a criminal charge the State must prove each and every element of an offense beyond a reasonable doubt. That is, and ought to be, a substantial burden.

    If you read 39-14-202 or 39-14-217 you will see an immediate problem in prosecuting owners.

    You might be able to make out solicitation or conspiracy, but that's a stretch. If you could make out solicitation you convert an A Misdemeanor (11 mo., 29 days in jail; max. fine of $2500) under Sec. 202 to a C Misdemeanor (30 days in jail; $50 fine). An E Felony becomes a B Misdemeanor (6 mo. in jail; $500 fine). Conspiracy reduces an A to B misdemeanor and an E Felony to an A Misdemeanor.

    This is not to argue that owners ought to be able to "walk away" without consequence. Public airing of their acts or omissions should be a minimum. Civil prosecution under the HPA should be had, where possible. But a State criminal conviction would be unlikely.

    If they were physically present when a criminal act took place that raises interesting questions, but might not make them a co-participant in the criminal acts. It would produce some strong evidence of conspiracy.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  6. #4026
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    Here is a link to a PDF with info on the "art" of stuff done to the TWH. Stuff is from 2005 but still a good primer on how cruel this business is and has been. Scroll about 3/4 down on the file and you will see the shoeing limitations on how the stack should measure up.

    http://www.tennessean.com/assets/pdf/DN4007893.PDF
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  7. #4027
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    ANd this was a recipe for how to "heal" or remove a pastern scar from one of the pro stack message boards:


    Some keys to clean feet.

    1. Time off.
    2. Proper Shoeing. (too many wedges = equals problems)
    3. Training Regimen (the smaller the chain the better).

    Products that work

    Formula 48
    S&T Callous Remover/Scar Formula

    Home Remedy

    Mix the following ingredients until it looks like chocolate icing. Apply wit a tooth brush to affected areas. Wrap in paper and plastic for two days. Wash feet and grease in Martins/Corona/707 leave open. KEEP CHAINS OFF, work in wooden rollers if you just have to have an action device...pasterns need time to heal after the treatment (dog walk while in healing phase).

    Salycidic Acid
    Reducine
    Martins (707, Corona etc)
    Cut Heal (1tsp)
    MTG (can be used to thin if too thick)
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  8. #4028
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    May. 16, 2007
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    TWHBEA to Institute Unfortunate Decrease in Employee Compensation
    Wednesday, April 10, 2013

    Due to drastic reductions in revenue, all employees of the Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ And Exhibitors’ Association (TWHBEA) will endure a decrease in their compensation of at least 20%. Starting April 26, 2013, the Association will no longer operate on Fridays.

    “I am very sorry that we are forced to make this change as it affects each and every one of our very loyal and dedicated employees as well as our members and those wishing to conduct business with the Association. We know that a Friday closing will negatively affect some of our members, and we deeply regret that inconvenience. Our loyal staff will now be processing five days work in four days at a substantial reduction in pay. We are so disappointed that they must endure this hardship.” states TWHBEA President Tracy Boyd. The decision to have the Association close on Fridays was made because, historically, Fridays are the slowest days for customer and member activity. The across the board 20% cut to employee compensation will produce a savings of approximately $115,000 that will work to offset the reduction in income that TWHBEA has been experiencing over the past several months. In addition, two employees will begin a two-day work week which also contributes to the $115,000 annual savings.

    The Association’s Executive Committee will meet to discuss additional ways to offset expenses during a planning session prior to the May semi-annual International Board of Directors meeting.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #4029
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    20

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    The new Whitfield Bill - "Prevent All Soring Tactics Act of 2013" is up and you can go to popvox and support or oppose this bill. These politicians need to hear what we think on this issue!
    I am not telling anyone to support or oppose but please let you feelings be known.

    https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/113/hr1518



  10. #4030
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
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    Done. The American Paint Horse Association, the American Morgan Horse Association, and the Pinto Horse Association of America now support this amendment. Add in the AAEP, AVMA, USEF, FOSH, and so many other groups. The number of groups opposing soring is ever increasing.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #4031
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    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    Where's the text of the bill, SouthernOakFarm? Says it's not available.

    Text is not yet available. I won't comment on something until I read it, but I will keep checking back.

    http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c113:H.R.1518:
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  12. #4032
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    This is what the AHC has up:


    On April 11, 2013, Congressmen Ed Whitfield (R-KY) introduced the Prevent All Soring Tactics Act of 2013. The bill is intended to strengthen the Horse Protection Act (HPA) to prevent soring. The HPA was enacted in 1970 to prohibit the showing, exhibiting, transporting or sale at auction of a horse that has been sored.

    The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA), which enforces the HPA, deems soring to involve the use of action devices, chemicals, pads, wedges or practices like trimming a horse’s hoof to expose sensitive tissue, to cause pain in the horse’s forelegs and produce an accentuated show gait for competition. According to the USDA, soring has been primarily used with Tennessee Walking Horses, Racking Horses, and Spotted Saddle Horses and continues despite the existence of a federal ban for over forty years.

    “Far too often, those involved in showing the Tennessee Walking Horses have turned a blind eye to abusive trainers, or when they do take action, the penalties are so minor, it does nothing to prevent these barbaric acts,” stated Whitfield. “This amendment does not cost the federal government any additional money and is essential in helping to put an end to the practice of soring by abusive trainers.”

    The horse show industry has been living with the HPA for over 40 years. However, the trigger for USDA enforcement of the Act is the showing, exhibition, auction or transport of a sore horse. For this reason USDA has focused its efforts on those segments of the show community that involve breeds and activities that are most frequently involved in soring. If a breed, discipline, or activity is not soring its horses to exaggerate their gaits, then as a practical matter the Act has likely not adversely affected them and the bill to amend the Act, if passed, will not affect them any more than current law.

    The bill would amend the HPA to prohibit a Tennessee Walking Horse, a Racking Horse, or a Spotted Saddle Horse from being shown, exhibited, or auctioned with an action device, or a weighted shoe, pad, wedge, hoof band or other device or material if it is constructed to artificially alter the gait of the horse and is not strictly protective or therapeutic. These new prohibitions would not apply to other breeds and would not prohibit the use of therapeutic pads, or bell boots or quarter boots that are used as protective devices.

    The legislation would also increase fines and penalties for violations for soring, including the potential for a lifetime ban for repeat offenders.

    The bill would create a new licensing process for horse show inspectors, eliminating the current program that uses industry-affiliated designated qualified persons (DQPs). This program has received criticism because these DQPs are often not independent of the industry they are inspecting. USDA would be required to train, license and appoint the new independent inspectors for shows and other HPA-regulated activities that wish to hire an inspector. Licensed or accredited veterinarians would be given preference for these positions. The decision to hire an inspector, however, would still be up to the show, sale or auction. It would not be made mandatory. Shows or sales that employ DQPs now would begin using USDA-selected inspectors. Shows or sales that choose not to use DQPs now would not be required to use them should the bill pass.

    The Bill has been referred to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce.

    “The AHC supports this legislation, as does the American Association of Equine Practitioners, the American Paint Horse Association, the American Morgan Horse Association, the Pinto Horse Association of America, the American Veterinary Medical Association and other groups,” said Jay Hickey, president of the American Horse Council.. “The bill focuses on the problem it is intended to solve and does not adversely affect other segments of the show industry that are not soring horses and have no history of soring horses. The AHC will be involved in the Congressional process and will immediately oppose any efforts, amendments, or attempts to broaden the Act or its enforcement that would adversely or unnecessarily affect any breeds, disciplines, or horses that have no history of soring.”
    .




    AHC Membership


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #4033
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    May. 16, 2007
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    Yes ! I forgot to mention the American Horse Council on the list of groups determined to end soring!
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #4034
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    May. 16, 2007
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    Statement from AVMA

    https://www.avma.org/News/PressRoom/...of-Horses.aspx


    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
    4/12/2013
    Major Veterinary Groups Urge Passage of Legislation to End Abusive Soring of Horses

    ​The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) and the American Association of Equine Practitioners (AAEP) joined together today in support of the Prevent All Soring Tactics Act (PAST), H.R. 1518. The bill seeks to eliminate the abusive act of soring horses by improving the U.S. Department of Agriculture’s enforcement capabilities and strengthening penalties against violators, among other provisions.

    Soring is the intentional infliction of pain in Tennessee Walking Horses, Spotted Saddle Horses, and Racking Horses to produce a high-stepping, unnatural gait. Despite being illegal for more than 40 years, insufficiencies in funding and other resources needed for enforcement at the federal level have contributed to a culture of corruption where this abusive, unethical practice remains prevalent in shows and auctions in certain pockets of the country.

    “Soring of horses is an inhumane practice that veterinarians are, unfortunately, still seeing. It has crippling physical and mental effects on horses,” said Dr. Douglas Aspros, veterinarian and AVMA president. “It’s sad when winning a show takes precedence over the health and welfare of the horse. As veterinarians, we simply can’t stand by and allow horses to be abused. We encourage Congress to quickly pass H.R. 1518 and put an end to the inhumane and unethical practice of soring, once and for all.”

    Specifically, H.R. 1518:

    Makes the actual act of soring, or directing another person to cause a horse to become sore, illegal, whereas the original Horse Protection Act only banned showing, transporting, or auctioning a horse that was sore, not the actual practice;
    Prohibits the use of action devices (e.g., boot, collar, chain, roller, or other device that encircles or is placed upon the lower extremity of the leg of a horse) on any limb of Tennessee Walking Horses, Spotted Saddle Horses, or Racking Horses at horse shows, exhibitions, sales or auctions and bans weighted shoes, pads, wedges, hoof bands, or other devices that are not used for protective or therapeutic purposes;
    Increases civil and criminal penalties for violations, and creates a penalty structure that requires horses to be disqualified for increasing periods of time based on the number of violations;
    Allows for permanent disqualification from the show ring after three or more violations; and
    Requires the USDA (rather than the current structure of horse industry self-regulation) to license, train, assign and oversee inspectors to enforce the Horse Protection Act.

    "Soring is one of the most significant equine welfare issues in the United States," said AAEP President Dr. Ann Dwyer. "Federal legislation is the only action that will end this decades-long abuse of horses, and we urge all within the veterinary and horse-owning communities to join us in supporting this bill’s passage.”
    For more information on the AVMA and AAEP’s efforts to end soring, visit the AVMA's Soring Resource Web page.
    # # #
    The American Association of Equine Practitioners, headquartered in Lexington, Ky., was founded in 1954 as a non-profit organization dedicated to the health and welfare of the horse. Currently, the AAEP reaches more than 5 million horse owners through its nearly 10,000 members worldwide and is actively involved in ethics issues, practice management, research and continuing education in the equine veterinary profession and horse industry.



    # # #
    The AVMA, founded in 1863, is one of the oldest and largest veterinary medical organizations in the world, with more than 84,000 member veterinarians worldwide engaged in a wide variety of professional activities and dedicated to the art and science of veterinary medicine.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #4035
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    Beyond wonderful!

    I hope everyone takes heed:

    "Federal legislation is the only action that will end this decades-long abuse of horses, and we urge all within the veterinary and horse-owning communities to join us in supporting this bill’s passage.”
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #4036
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    8,778

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    My only problem with the Act as described is the Feds trying to make the act of soring a Federal criminal offense. Beyond the first question of Constitutionality you've got the same problem that TN has, to wit: you've got to identify, beyond a reasonable doubt, the person who either applied the unlawful devices/substance and/or directed their application. Unless you're willing to get into the sorts of things used in mob investigations (hidden cameras, wiretaps, paid informants, etc.) that evidence will be very difficult and expensive to gather. If you follow the KISS principle and just do the rest you accomplish the same goal without adding both cost and complexity to the problem.

    The reason cost is an issue is that under Federal practice bills are run through an OMB process that puts a price tag on enforcement. I don't know how many OMB folks have ever worked in stables or barns but they'll still put a number on it. Under congressional practice if you want to spend new dollars on a project you must either show a compelling need (meaning we'll borrow the money) or get it from somewhere else. In a time when the Feds are running the mindless "sequester" keeping a high-dollar provision like Federalizing animal cruelty could damn the entire effort.

    I know that many want a "pound of flesh" in these matters but that didn't work out for Shylock and it won't work out here, either.

    Stay with the easy, public stuff.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  17. #4037

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post

    Salycidic Acid
    Reducine
    Martins (707, Corona etc)
    Cut Heal (1tsp)
    MTG (can be used to thin if too thick)[/INDENT][/INDENT]

    yes a very good mix but hardly secret or used just in walkers...it also makes nasty old granulated wire cuts better....the key is the saran wrap to hold the damp against the skin to prevent the hard yucky scabbing...minus the acne med it also is pretty good for fresh cuts...

    Tamara
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  18. #4038
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    ... to remove pastern scars on a stacked Tennessee Walker...
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  19. #4039
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    May. 16, 2007
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    The usual maximum recommended strength of salacydic acid for human use is 2%. I wonder what strength the lickers use ? Enough to make a horse lay down in pain ? Enough to cause a chemical colic ?
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  20. #4040
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    Dec. 30, 2006
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    In the case I noted above - the intention of the recipe was to remove the scars caused by whatever they had done to the horses pasterns to get him to high step. It was not intended as a soring agent.


    But indeed the products are a "peel" and the post says the horse will need time off. I thought a couple of things in that scar removal post were very interesting. Like one of the first things to do was to stop using the chains or use a light chain. IMO chains - specially the heavy chains - combined with the "grease" caused these folks a lot of the hair rubbing, pastern irritation and subsequent scarring on these horses. Saddlebreds I knew had chains and NEVER had scars to peel and worry with.

    And the other interesting and important point was the poster noted the excess pads that wedge too high may be part of the scarring pastern problem. Ever see how a horse that is either wedged up high or has a dropped pastern will have wrinkled folded skin on the back of the pastern? Well, that folded skin will more likely become irritated by the rubbing greased chain than a smooth skinned pastern would.

    And keep in mind - scar rule violations are usually scars on the back of the pastern - not the front.

    Just want to add that I also put the post here cause it shows all the hoops and "horsekeeping" that the stacked TWH people had to go through to compensate for their poor technique.

    WOuld have been better for them to face the fact that the scarred pastern was caused by the stacks and chains. ANd it would have been much better for them to do away with the chains and stacks than to develop the many ways they did to mask the poor effects of these devices on the horse.

    It is amazing to me how they will minimize these things as normal everyday household items. But some are in so deep they just do not see that what they do causes the horse and them great trouble.

    Just mo O.

    ------------

    Back to the Bill:


    I love that the new law specifically lists "bands" as a targeted illegal attachment. Just getting those off horses feet will cut a lot of abuse.
    Last edited by hurleycane; Apr. 13, 2013 at 05:36 PM.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



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