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  1. #3581
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,123

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    Here is Friday

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYK5...ature=youtu.be

    Here is Saturday

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nquW4...ature=youtu.be

    Does anyone have TWHBEA registration numbers ?
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  2. #3582
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2005
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,560

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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    Here is Friday

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYK5...ature=youtu.be

    Here is Saturday

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nquW4...ature=youtu.be

    Does anyone have TWHBEA registration numbers ?
    Thank you! I was just getting ready to post

    Numbers look about like I've seen in past years *shrugs* A nice, square going horse still brings money and the pacey horses go cheap.

    And I'll tell you why the padded horses didn't show up- nothing to do with the weather, more like the padded trainers *knew* they'd be under more scrutiny than ever before!

    Walking Horse Club of KY also has some video of the sales horses here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5-1ES7_XWA

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...=aEq1ues2PaU#!



  3. #3583
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2013
    Location
    Arizona, USA
    Posts
    76

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    Here is the list of the results from the KY Walking Horse Club videos. I can look up numbers and names if anyone wants me to--I have access to an IPEDs account.

    NS = no sale; no info = he had nothing written down for that horse.

    Friday, January 25, 2013 http://youtu.be/7WYK5H4yv90
    501 Black Hills Blend 21101680 4/20/2011 S Black $950
    502 Step on Over 980743 3/13/1998 M Chestnut $300
    503 Conn's Candyman 6034103 8/24/2003 G Grey $650
    504 Pedro Martinez G Chocolate no info
    505 Usain Bolt 21002690 5/11/2010 G Black $250
    506 Dude's in Command 30610188 10/2/2006 G Sorrel $650
    507 Steel Gray Pride BJ 20802883 5/8/2008 S Perlino $600
    508 My Special Dream 20902862 5/17/2009 M Bay $1450
    509 Sundust's Generator 19907641 7/6/1999 M Chestnut $400 NS
    510 The Wicked Princess 211012267 6/14/2011 M Sorrel $500
    511 A Flashy Babe 20009728 5/16/2000 M Black Tobiano $250
    512 Ritzie Maxie 20407265 10/1/2004 M Black SIF to Johnny Majors $550
    513 Ben Cartwright 20434122 4/14/2005 G Buckskin no info
    514 JFK Wants Cash 20610538 4/25/2006 S Sorrel no info
    515 Maverick Mack G Black Roan $1200
    516 Rock's Free Spirit 20010494 10/18/2000 G Black Tobiano no info
    517 Speck's Lookalike 7/12/2005 G Strawberry Roan $1350
    518 No listing information
    519 I'm a Pusher by Chance 20403806 4/9/2004 G Palomino $550
    520 Sir Winston 6/1/2008 G Black Tobiano $550 NS
    521 Dream Catcher Command 20506167 5/13/2005 G Black $2500 NS
    522 Dr. Blue 212001468 5/25/2012 S Black $1050
    523 Firestone's Firehawk 20205888 5/2/2002 M Chestnut no info
    524 Pusher's Special Moment 20707604 10/29/2007 M Black $750 NS
    525 Sleet of Gipsy's Story 20902025 4/11/2009 M Buckskin $400 NS
    526 Halle Berry 20310594 4/23/2003 M Chestnut $1450
    527 Special Maxie 20800008 1/26/2008 M Black no info
    528 Banjo 3/12/2006 G Black Tobiano $1000
    529 Win's Melody 21101533 5/1/2011 M Black Roan $750 NS
    531 No listing information papers pending $250
    532 Crimson Sky 20014360 10/15/2000 M Sorrel $1250 NS
    533 I'm Just Buck 5/1/2011 G Gold Buckskin $1200 NS
    534 A Flashfire 20506648 5/15/2005 S Bay Roan $1150
    535 Bucky Star 20700862 2/10/2007 M Buckskin $550 NS
    536 Power Girl M Gray Roan $450
    537 Bold Gray Sky 20804158 5/27/2008 S Black Gray $1300
    538 A Lucky Return 20611103 4/18/2006 G Grey/White $450
    539 McDougal's Generator R 10800766 4/8/2008 M Sorrel Tobiano Reg SSHBEA $450
    540 Master of Fashion 20900517 5/27/2009 G Chestnut $1400 NS
    541 Lightning's Summer Love 20703647 5/17/2007 M Black $1200 NS
    542 Tickle Me Elmo G Black Tobiano $250
    543 Wind Drifter's Temptatio 4/21/2010 G Cream Champagne no info
    544 Chromalox '05 200903050 10/1/2005 G Palomino $400
    545 Showboy 4/12/2005 G "Painted" $700
    546 Threat's Rockin Lady 20801967 3/15/2008 M Sorrel Tobiano $1400
    547 An Heir to the Throne 21002148 5/4/2010 M Black no info
    548 Miss Rock Hard 9812571 6/6/1998 M Black $600
    549 River Runner 4/28/2011 S Palomino Tobiano $1300
    550-551 Pony gelding Chestnut $350
    552 Maker's Sunday Shaker 930453 4/15/1993 M Bay $200
    553 Belle of Jose 20700188 4/16/2007 M Black no info
    554 Hank's Grand Slam 21103388 10/13/2011 S Sorrel $1500 NS
    555 Lined Up to Win 21103388 10/13/2011 S Sorrel $1000
    556 Lil John John 20807339 3/5/2008 G Black $2700
    By Thunder Grey, grandson of Pride's Generator, trail horse
    557 A Touch of Skywatch 20203029 4/23/2002 M Black $3100
    By The Skywatch, former show horse, Dam of WGC Skyanide & Juan Pablo, in foal to
    Linked With Cash
    558 An Illustrated Delight 20905041 10/27/2009 M Smoky Black $350 NS
    559 A Go Go Girl 988201 10/2/1998 M Chestnut by JFK no info
    560 My Favorite Diamond 21001076 5/22/2010 S Classic Champagne $1250
    561 Jazz Dude 21001983 5/1/2010 G Roan $2300 NS
    562 He's Hawkeye 20315306 4/1/2003 G Black no info
    563 N/A
    564 JFK By Gosh 20904965 10/7/2009 G Chestnut $1000
    565 Outlaw's Lucky Patty 20503038 3/17/2005 M Sorrel Tobiano $400
    566 Tripper Lo 21101681 4/22/2011 S Palomino $3000
    Trail horse
    567 Tony 5/20/2003 G Chocolate kid's pony $900
    568-569 Can't read on the video $1600 NS $1800 sold
    570 Ducky G $700
    571 Pusher's Dixie Girl 987183 4/4/1998 M Black by The Pusher $950
    572 I Walk 21003585 4/28/2010 M Black $2300 NS
    573 Snow's Cash Jackpot 21102063 5/10/2011 G Palomino no info
    574 Mountain Man 4/21/2001 G Black Tobiano no info
    575 Butter Cup 11/9/2010 G Palomino Reg RHBAA $600
    576 Dakota's Proud Onyx 21000681 5/28/2010 S Black Tobiano $1700
    577 Announced at sale $1600
    578 Pusher's Black Coat 20705039 6/12/2007 G Black $900
    579 Handsome Jack G Buckskin & White $550
    580 Look N Good N Silver 21102164 5/11/2011 M Sorrel $550 NS
    581 He's Hawkeye pending $950
    582 Blues Man Walking 21100744 3/17/2011 S Black Roan $1100
    583 Flutter My Lashes 962181 5/9/1996 M Black Sabino $1700
    584 Spirit of Gin 20905457 10/5/2009 M Black $2000 NS
    585 Watch Maxie 21001151 6/2/2010 M Black $650 NS
    586 Ice's Pretty Buttercup 21001537 4/11/2010 M Buckskin Tobiano no info
    587 Silver Delight's Sparkles 2100034 3/22/2011 G Chestnut $600
    588 N/A
    589 No name G Black Pony no info
    590 My Star Key 12 yo G Black no info
    591 Stunned & Styled 10201823 4/13/2002 M Black Tobiano $950 NS
    592 Skywatch's Red Lightnin 21201574 4/29/2012 M Chestnut $800
    593 Label Me Ebony 20400457 1/13/2004 M Sorrel $1700
    594 Trout-Creek's Chance 20803348 4/23/2008 G Black/Silver $875 NS
    595 Kyle Knight 20603290 2/14/2006 G Black/White $1300
    596 Lonesome Casper G Blue Roan no info
    597 Burnin' Sky 2080933 8/7/2008 G Chestnut $250
    598 Jazzy Maxie 20600035 3/22/2006 M Black no info
    599 Short Stuff 1/15/2010 G Black Roan no info
    600 Extraordinary Opportun 20308186 4/29/2003 G Palomino Sabino no info
    601 Santana April 20002580 4/1/2000 M Black $2300
    602 Thunder from Down Unde 234712 1/23/2003 G Bay no info
    603 Stuntman's Gunslinger 11000029 6/15/2005 G Sorrel/White reg SSHBEA no info

    Saturday, January 26, 2013 http://youtu.be/nquW46caja0
    700 2 seat doctor's carriage totally restored $3100
    701 Katie's Painted Ace 19909428 6/30/1999 M Black Tobiano $250
    702 Mister Special 5/26/2012 S Champagne Tobiano $1450 NS
    703 Complicated 20203425 3/6/2002 G Bay no info
    704 Sedona Persuasion 20708905? 4/22/2007 M Bay no info
    705 Silver Tradition 20314138? 3/31/2003 G Grey no info
    706 Shadow's Tax Man 20901979? 4/15/2009 G Sorrel no info
    707 She's An American Lady 20805803? 10/15/2008 M Black by All American Cash $1650
    708 No listing papers pending no info
    709 Peaceful in Texas 21003428 10/8/2010 M Sorrel no info
    710 Rock Star 5/12/2008 G Sorrel Pony no info
    711 Stafford 20806536 10/2/2008 G Black $800
    712 Generals Little Lady 20413439 8/24/2004 M Sorrel bred to Master of Jazz $525
    713 My Dreamland 20901864 4/8/2009 M Black full sister to WGC I'm Richie Rich $200
    714 Sweet Alabama Song 21004361 6/3/2010 M Chestnut $650 NS
    715 Knieval's Playboy Rooste 20209819 5/19/2002 S Sorrel $950 sub
    716 Wired 220 963462 3/27/1996 M Black $200
    717 Jackson's Gone Country 20411??? 4/2/2004 G Tobiano $1100
    718 Don't Touch My Teddy 20802909 3/21/2008 M Bay by Ted Williams $650 NS
    719 Tony's Chocolate Thunde 12540 G 6yo $850
    720 Dreamer's Big Bucks 20806403 6/18/2008 G Buckskin trail & obstacles $2400 NS
    721 T. Bird's Bright Sunday 20805824 10/2/2008 S Black Roan $1700 NS
    722 Color Samples 20413059 10/14/2004 M Black Tobiano $500
    723 Loose'N Busty 20111318 5/22/2001 M Black Roan $3000 NS
    By Pusher Bustin Loose, SIF to WGC Cash in my Stock
    724 Sky's Silver Rage 19900743 4/19/1999 M Sorrel by The Skywatch $1150
    725 Mare by Gen's Armed & Dangerous Sorrel $750 NS
    726 Go Go's Fury 21002460 5/8/2010 G Tobiano $1700
    727 Amos Gator 20405211 4/2/2004 G Black $950
    728 D.L. 6/1/2010 G Palomino $1100
    729 Blue Touch 21102481 10/1/2011 S Black no info
    730 The Khemonabi Queen 21103593 5/11/2011 M Black Tobiano no info
    731 Ted's No Sissy 20709782 10/15/2007 M Palomino $2300
    732 Dr. Oz 20905102 7/5/2009 G Sorrel no info
    733 Outlaw's Lucky Chance G Palomino Tobiano no info
    734 Romeo's Sweet Gold 20704500 4/21/2007 M Buckskin
    735 KY Blue Boy 21002658 5/19/2010 G Buckskin no white $2500
    736 Edge's Smooth Sailin 19910672 10/3/1999 M Chestnut $600 NS
    737 MG's Moving Smooth 985653 5/11/1998 M Chestnut $300
    738 Talladega Mama 20101390 5/11/2001 Mare no info
    739 Black Lace Delight 20800201 5/4/2008 M Black $1100
    740 Especially Yours 20700704 6/10/2007 M $1150 NS
    741 Geronimo's Bronze Copy 11200003 6/10/2009 G Tri-colored no info
    742 Mack Belle 5/11/2012 M Grey Sabino $600 NS
    743 Out of the Park 20900417 6/22/2009 no info
    744 Diamond Cutter 120290 reg NSSHA Trail horse $1800
    745 Coach Pat Summitt 20507672 M SIF to Master of Jazz $1100
    746 Persuasion's Sky Pusher 20101736 M Chestnut Roan no info
    747 Doc's Golden Delight 971118? 1997 SIF to Wet Back $400
    748 Lady Latte 2008? NS
    749 Preacher's Billy Ray Reg G Palomino no info
    750 Turbo's White Intruder 21 mos S Cremello no info
    751 Jazz King Motown Man $1000
    752 Senorita at the Ritz 20806528 10/4/2009 M Black $1000
    753 Out for Parole 20802819 5/4/2008 G Black Roan $2800
    754 Caesar Ritz 987636 9/1/1998 G Sorrel no info
    755 Black Gins Magic Lady 20902282 10/1/2009 M Chestnut SIF to Main Power no info
    756 All American Kate 20903358 5/1/2009 M Black SIF $700
    757 King's Precious Baby 10600346 10/11/2005 M reg SSHBEA no info
    758 Rain's Showcase 970970 6/2/1997 G kid safe drives $800
    759 All American Madam 20800311 5/27/2008 M by All American Cash SIF $700
    760 Touch's Run Around Sue 920398 5/6/1992 M no info
    761 Jose's Miss Pusher 20805623 5/8/2008 M no info
    762 Thunder's Maggie 20604130 4/7/2006 Chestnut M $600
    763 Look It Up 21101045 5/16/2011 M $3700 NS
    764 Play Toy 20708741 10/5/2007 G 2012 Resv WGC no info
    765 Armed Shady Lady 20612886 April 2006 M $475
    766 He's Donald Trump 20701750 2007 Red Roan w/ white m/t $300
    767 Push the Line 20504579 2005 G Dapple grey no info
    768 Major Generals Magic Mi 2060591? SIF to The Titleist no info
    769 Via's A Bit Flashy 2110? G Palomino Tobiano no info
    770 Tangela 20902358 4/20/2009 M Heavy shod $800 NS
    771 Miss Teddy Bear 20703616 5/31/2007 M no info
    772 He's Magnanimous 20805862 5/1/2008 G $550 NS
    773 Announced at sale - no listing
    774 Master's Song 20904280 10/3/2009 $3500
    775 The Tennessee Two-Stepp 21002998 7/19/2010 Racking $1700
    776 Pride's Winning Again 19908402 4/20/1999 SIF $2150
    777 Allegiance 20707857 4/26/2007 Trail horse $1250
    778 Frosted Flake 20215282 7/1/2002 SIF to Jose $1700
    779 Ritz's Diamond Delight 20610570 3/21/2006 G by He's Puttin on the Ritz no info
    780 Sky Patrole 20608813 May 2006 M by Out on Parole SIF $1175
    781 Extremely Roan Filly $850 NS
    782 Announced at sale - no listing
    783 Armed Scarlet Lady 20603354 2006 M FS multi-winner $6400
    784 Wesley's Dream Ride 2100324? G Buckskin $2500 NS
    785 American Gold RHS 20706? 2007 G Chestnut w/ flaxen m/t $2800 NS
    786 Arm's Rhett Butler 2070? 2007 Shown Park $2200
    787 Pants on the Ground 2110? 2011 $500 NS
    788 Jazz's Black Spirit 20800824 6/3/2008 G Black $650
    789 Miss Santana 20007173 4/16/2000 M Chestnut Broodmare $600
    790 Stealing the Gold 20605750 4/29/2006 M Sorrel SIF to The Titleist no info
    791 Blue Eyed Bandit 21101648 5/16/2011 G Black Tobiano $300
    792 Black Bruce 21003996 10/10/2010 S Black $550
    793 SVF Sundance Red 20903968 5/17/2009 G Strawberry Roan no info
    794 Blue Lucy 21101679 4/14/2011 M True blue roan Clinton Anderson trained $3400
    795 Fantasy's Sweet Dream 20707123 6/21/2007 S Trail horse $3500 NS wanted $5000
    796 Miss Top Delight 9812502 10/14/1998 M Homozygous SIF to gray tobiano no info
    797 Iced Sundrop 20115441 5/30/2001 M WC $1500 NS
    798 My Paps Wanted 20902745 5/10/2009 M $1800 NS
    799 A Walk With Ritz 20706202 10/6/2007 M by He's Puttin on the Ritz SIF $1800 NS
    800 Maggy's Little Man 20604064 3/28/2006 G Black Tobiano $2600
    801 Major's Miss Myrtle 19913808 10/5 M $1000 NS
    802 Reactor's Cream Fling 20103824 2010 S no info
    803 Palin 21001707 2011 G $2200
    804 A Mystic Generator 20708179 2007 G True red roan no info
    805 Yukon Gold 20902735 2009 Trail horse $750
    Horses 805-852 not posted here
    Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
    www.forthetwh.com


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #3584
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2008
    Posts
    415

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    I watched the videos, were those supposed to be TWH's? Over half were pacing/step pacing/racking. A few had a nice running walk. Pretty sad when the majority can't gait properly, much of that is due to breeding for the big lick.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #3585
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2006
    Posts
    1,209

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    ...and the riding (causes the other gaits). Remember the step pace and rack is/are recognized and acceptable gaits -and not a detriment to the horse - regardless of papers. Right?

    Some for sure did a nice FW RW.

    Some were also nice looking and well fed.

    Wish I was in the market.

    I am glad there were no stacks/chains and no tickets written - cause the HIO was a good one and not crooked as I understand,
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #3586
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,669

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    Quote Originally Posted by Malda View Post
    I watched the videos, were those supposed to be TWH's? Over half were pacing/step pacing/racking. A few had a nice running walk. Pretty sad when the majority can't gait properly, much of that is due to breeding for the big lick.
    And herein lies the problem. For 50 years the majority of TWH breeding (and certainly the "leading" TWH breeding) has been for the very lateral, vice very square, gait. It's so bad that the average TWH professional (vice mere owner) has no idea what the running walk should either look or feel like.

    This poor breeding problem is exacerbated by some truly atrocious equitation.

    Or, maybe, that's too strong an assessment. Maybe the true assessment is that a huge percentage of gaited riders believe that the proper seat for ALL gaited horses is "butt on the cantle and feet on the dashboard." In the show ring this IS the best seat to win blue ribbons under the overwhelming majority of judges in any TWH/SSH/Racking show system. But move outside that system and this seat would be considered a short cut to soring up the horse's back.

    Since there are so few true, running walks performed the judging system has morphed into accepting the "off" gaits, like the stepping pace, as being "OK" and pinning accordingly. What they should do is not pin that which does not meet the standard, even if that means no ribbons in a class. Of course any judge who did that would quickly find them self without gigs.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #3587
    Join Date
    Oct. 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,891

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    And herein lies the problem. For 50 years the majority of TWH breeding (and certainly the "leading" TWH breeding) has been for the very lateral, vice very square, gait. It's so bad that the average TWH professional (vice mere owner) has no idea what the running walk should either look or feel like.

    This poor breeding problem is exacerbated by some truly atrocious equitation.

    Or, maybe, that's too strong an assessment. Maybe the true assessment is that a huge percentage of gaited riders believe that the proper seat for ALL gaited horses is "butt on the cantle and feet on the dashboard." In the show ring this IS the best seat to win blue ribbons under the overwhelming majority of judges in any TWH/SSH/Racking show system. But move outside that system and this seat would be considered a short cut to soring up the horse's back.

    Since there are so few true, running walks performed the judging system has morphed into accepting the "off" gaits, like the stepping pace, as being "OK" and pinning accordingly. What they should do is not pin that which does not meet the standard, even if that means no ribbons in a class. Of course any judge who did that would quickly find them self without gigs.

    G.
    Yep. I wish these riders would learn that there is more to riding than hands.
    "I've spent most of my life riding horses. The rest I've just wasted". - Anonymous


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #3588
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,669

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    Quote Originally Posted by CFFarm View Post
    Yep. I wish these riders would learn that there is more to riding than hands.
    I've been told, point blank and in person, by multiple TWH Names that you don't use the leg or seat with a Walker, only the hand. On the rare occasion the leg is used it's to spur the horse to greater effort. The butt stays against the cantle to encourage the horse to "raise" the front end (i.e., application of the "rocking horse theory of equine moment").

    And the Names are correct if you're talking about the show ring. Just not anywhere else.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #3589
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,123

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    Thank you AVMA !!


    https://www.avma.org/News/JAVMANews/Pages/130215h.aspx

    ​USDA looking at new ways to detect soring

    Posted on January 30, 2013
    By Malinda Larkin
    ​ ​ ​
    ​ ​The Walking Horse industry averages about 600 horse shows per year; Department of Agriculture veterinary medical officers attend approximately 80 of those. ​

    As the AVMA, American Association of Equine Practitioners, federal government, and others put pressure on the Walking Horse industry to eradicate the practice of soring, pushback on reform remains.

    On Nov. 20, 2012, the AVMA and AAEP released a statement indicating their support for amendments to the Horse Protection Act. As written, the amendments (H.R. 6388) would have strengthened penalties for violations of the act and improved Department of Agriculture enforcement (see JAVMA, Nov. 1, 2012, page 1133).

    Five months earlier, the associations had jointly called for a ban on the use of action devices and performance packages on Tennessee Walking Horses. These are commonly used to accentuate the breed’s distinctive gait but can also be used to facilitate soring, i.e., deliberately inflicting pain to exaggerate the gait of horses to gain an unfair advantage in the show ring.

    The Tennessee Walking Horse Breeders’ and Exhibitors’ Association and the Tennessee Walking Show Horse Organization issued letters Nov. 21 and Nov. 28, respectively, to the AVMA and AAEP. Both indicated opposition to the associations’ efforts and the amendments to the HPA.

    The TWHBEA wrote that, while it is committed to ending soring: “The Association is aware of no scientific evidence supporting the idea that pads and action devices, when used properly, harm horses. In reality, it is the actions of unscrupulous individuals that harm horses.”

    The TWSHO letter followed in the same vein. The group also took issue with the proposed amendment to the HPA that would eliminate the role of horse industry organizations such as the TWHBEA and TWSHO in horse show inspections.

    Currently, horse show managers can voluntarily hire USDA-trained lay inspectors, known as designated qualified persons, chosen by certain horse industry organizations. The USDA also has its own veterinary medical officers who perform inspections at some venues.

    Under the new provision, the USDA would be responsible for choosing inspectors for horse shows, auctions, and other Horse Protection Act–regulated venues; however, the decision to hire a designated qualified person would still be up to the horse show, sale, or auction organizers.

    “Without HIOs there are no assurances of consistent inspections, tracking of individuals that have been previously ticketed, and thus no effective enforcement of the HPA,” TWSHO’s letter stated.

    Currently there are 12 horse industry organizations; only six are active. Three are undergoing decertification. That’s because in 2012, the USDA changed regulations to create a more consistent penalty structure for the industry (see JAVMA, Aug. 1, 2012, page 296). It requires designated qualified persons who inspect horses to assess minimum penalties for soring. These three organizations didn’t follow the mandate, claiming the regulations were unconstitutional.

    Facts and figures
    Dr. Gail C. Golab, director of the AVMA Animal Welfare Division, responded to the two organizations’ letters in a Dec. 3 post on the AVMA@Work blog, explaining the AVMA’s and AAEP’s position as well as the proposed amendments.

    The science that is available says that raising the heels (placing a horse on pads and wedges) 8 degrees can cause the horse to stumble and tire easily, Dr. Golab wrote. Additionally, horses placed on pads and wedges had inflammation in the flexor tendon area of the pastern.

    “Chains that weigh 6 ounces will start to cause hair loss without the use of chemical irritants. Chains heavier than 6 ounces used on horses that have been previously sored will cause open lesions within two weeks,” Dr. Golab added.

    Regardless, she said, the horse industry organizations were missing the point of the AVMA’s and AAEP’s decision.

    “The AVMA’s and AAEP’s primary concern is that chains and pads are used to exacerbate and/or hide soring. And they can do so irrespective of their size and/or weight,” Dr. Golab wrote. “To remove opportunity and incentive to sore, and to facilitate the inspection process under the HPA, the AVMA and AAEP agree with the authors of H.R. 6388 that self-policing, and chains and pads, have to go.”

    Recent statistics bear out Dr. Golab’s claim on self-policing.

    As of Nov. 17, 2012, designated qualified persons had completed 62,835 inspections for the year and found 641 violations (1.02 percent). By comparison, 9,685 inspections were completed when USDA veterinary medical officers were present. During those inspections, 572 violations were found (5.91 percent).

    During the 2012 Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration, the biggest show for this community, 1,849 entries were inspected with USDA veterinary medical officers present, and 166 violations were found (8.98 percent). The preceding year, there was a 9.5 percent violation rate, with 2,143 horses inspected and 203 violations found.

    Plus, from 2005-2008, the USDA was present at only 6 percent of all Walking Horse shows, yet designated qualified persons found 39 percent of all their violations at these horse shows.
    Divisions remain
    Further discord in the Walking Horse industry was made evident when the TWHBEA voted in late 2012 to reject a proposal submitted by the TWSHO to unify the industry under one voice.

    The proposal was a draft plan developed from meetings with various independent equine experts, including multiple nationally renowned veterinarians. The mission of the organization was to have a “one-voice” horse industry organization for performance horses.

    “Goals include the implementation of one set of HIO protocols, procedures and penalties to ensure consistent, fair and complete inspections throughout the industry. The group’s primary goal would be to eliminate soring through an aggressive reform agenda. Additionally, the group intends to coordinate all industry communications regarding the show horse in matters relating to the HPA, regulatory, and political issues. The proposal intends to create one rulebook, penalty structure, and judging program,” according to an email sent by the TWHBEA.

    The proposed 12-member board of directors would have consisted of two members from five current organizations—the TWSHO, TWHBEA, Walking Horse Owners Association, Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration, and Walking Horse Trainers’ Asso*ciation—along with two “independent, non-industry” veterinarians.

    The TWHBEA cited concerns over the lack of financial details and the representational structure of the board for not joining. The WHOA held a similar vote and rejected the plan but voted to keep lines of communication open with the TWSHO.
    Keeping an eye on things
    Going forward, while H.R. 6388 is expected to be reintroduced in the 113th Congress, the USDA continues to test new methods to detect soring and keep horses that have been sored from being entered in horse shows.

    The USDA Horse Protection Program has begun a pilot project on drug testing. Veterinary medical officers obtain blood to look for agents that could be linked to soring.

    “Just as numbing and masking agents are found from the foreign substance testing, we are concerned that these types of agents may be injected in the horses as well to cause soring or mask soring during inspections,” said Dr. Rachel Cezar, Horse Protection Program coordinator with the Animal Care program of the USDA Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service.

    So far, 50 samples have been collected at three horse shows, and more sampling is planned in 2013.

    In addition, the USDA Horse Protection Program will be working with the equine identification system EyeD to establish a program for identifying horses in violation of the Horse Protection Act via a scan of their irises. The USDA will begin using it this year.

    “We hope that introducing this technology to the industry will influence (horse owners) to start utilizing it as well for equine identification,” Dr. Cezar said.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.


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  10. #3590
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    Yeah!
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


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  11. #3591
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    According to the TWHBEA breed description: "The Tennessee Walking Horse performs three distinct gaits: the flat foot walk, running walk, and canter." Stepping pace and rack are not "recognized and acceptable gaits" of the TWH. What's the point of having a breed if you don't enforce standards? I was pointing out what a mess this breed is.

    Guilherme was correct when he explained why the running walk is so rare. I know the pressing issue is to get rid of the stacks, chains and soring, but sometimes I wonder if this breed will ever get back to natural, running walk horses.


    Quote Originally Posted by hurleycane View Post
    ...and the riding (causes the other gaits). Remember the step pace and rack is/are recognized and acceptable gaits -and not a detriment to the horse - regardless of papers. Right?

    Some for sure did a nice FW RW.

    Some were also nice looking and well fed.

    Wish I was in the market.

    I am glad there were no stacks/chains and no tickets written - cause the HIO was a good one and not crooked as I understand,


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  12. #3592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malda View Post
    According to the TWHBEA breed description: "The Tennessee Walking Horse performs three distinct gaits: the flat foot walk, running walk, and canter." Stepping pace and rack are not "recognized and acceptable gaits" of the TWH. What's the point of having a breed if you don't enforce standards? I was pointing out what a mess this breed is.

    Guilherme was correct when he explained why the running walk is so rare. I know the pressing issue is to get rid of the stacks, chains and soring, but sometimes I wonder if this breed will ever get back to natural, running walk horses.
    Sure they will. All it takes is the desire, a lot of money, and several decades of selective breeding for the desired traits.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  13. #3593
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    You forgot education. People need to stop breeding papers, and learn what a running walk is.


    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Sure they will. All it takes is the desire, a lot of money, and several decades of selective breeding for the desired traits.

    G.


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  14. #3594
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    MAN, you guys are right on! I too am really angry that the true FW/RW has been bred right out of the TWH. Finding one that can truly walk is becoming very rare. But at least there are breeders out there who are working to keep that true FW/RW in place. They are the ones we're going to be going to WHEN the Big Lick dies. (I say WHEN to keep us working hard to end this!)
    Andrea, For the Tennessee Walking Horse
    www.forthetwh.com


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  15. #3595
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    Well, with regard to my view on gaits - I think it goes against the grain of most here on this thread. And I think it is because 1)my view arises from having been acquainted with a breed that values gaited-ness as well as non gaited-ness and 2) the very natural ability for a horse to have within it more than one gait 3) the firm belief that what a horse does with his feet is very dependent on the rider.

    Oh - and I am not so much disagreeing with purists - but I think the more folks come to understand what a true running walk is - the more they appreciate that many a horse - TWH or not - is simply blown past the gait.

    And I say TWH or not - cause most "American Breeds" are relatively young/new and very closely related. And as an example I will say I knew a fully registered RMH that had an incredible FW/RW and a get it going rack. And as another example I watched a fully registered TWH do his FW RW Canter and then a very lovely trot and rack.

    Sure, for the most part, dependent on breeding/conformation any horse will be brilliant in one or the other gait. But for sure must horses have within them more than one gait - regardless of breeding.

    So, my mantra of the breeding potential of a rw/fw gait is they all have more than one gear - only the papers say otherwise and a lot of the gaiting depends on the rider and training of the two.

    Watch em in the fields - they offer up a lot more than the registries permit.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor


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  16. #3596
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    For the folks that breed: A question.

    I have for a long time heard that the breeding of the stacked horses has ruined the gait. And I do see where some of these successful stacked horses have traits that do not lend well to working in a smooth gait without stacks and weights.

    One of those bad traits is that I hear some breeders select for crookedness in breeding gaiters. "The crookeder they are the better they gait." And this is where I see significant toeing out, cow hocks, camped under, leg winging, butt high etc etc etc horses. And though these horses do not suspend a gait and are therefore smooth - I do question whether they are sound and useful. Cause in many cases I think they lack suspension only because of poor conformation.

    So my question is, other than "paciness" what conformation attributes trends do you see being recognizable in the stacked lines that differ from the true TWH?

    And BTW my fav TWH olde is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmExC0boot4

    BTW - I think her shoe is a little heavy and would love to have seen her on a loser rein, but my my my she had it!
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  17. #3597
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    Malda - I agree . TWH does not recognize any smooth gait other than RW/FW as show worthy for their breed. Well, their regulations do let in a canter and dog walk. But never heard of them desiring a rack or step pace on a show horse.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



  18. #3598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malda View Post
    You forgot education. People need to stop breeding papers, and learn what a running walk is.
    No, not really!

    The requirement to "breed for desired traits" implies that the humans have the ability to identify the traits in question, place them in the context of the entire horse, and then select brood stock that will transmit the traits to future offspring.

    I don't suggest in my comments on gait that the rules (in this case, the judging standards) have changed. I do suggest that the running walk has become so astonishingly rare that no one really knows what it looks like and judges end up pinning off gaited horses because that's all that's in front of them. Sort of like the "what you see is what you get" approach. It's a terrible policy but one that's gone on a very long time.

    The Walker is a young breed (compared to the likes of the TB or Arabian). The TWHBEA does not have a breed standard, only a description. Allen F-1 was reputed to have been nine gaited (including the trot). Much of the foundation stock of the TWH was selected by performance testing. Many demonstrated the trot among their other gaits. The "gait jingoists" get wildly exorcised over the possibility of a gaited horse trotting. That, to me, demonstrates deficiency in both historical and equine bio-mechanical knowledge.

    A horse with a very lateral gait and any overstride will often have a rear leg slightly longer than might be considered "normal." This is not a conformation defect if the leg is normally shaped and properly attached to the hip. This will give the impression of being built "downhill" but, again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. As long as it's a fully functional part of the whole horse I don't see any issues. If the leg is not well attached or if, as is common, is "sickle hocked" then you've got a serious flaw. A crooked leg is not as strong as a straight leg ("straight" here meaning the leg has proper articulations). The bent hock actually is an advantage in over stride and that is an advantage in some gaits. But the bent leg will break down sooner that the straight leg and the horse's performance career will likely be shorter.

    The conformational differences of a gaited horse vs. a trotting horse will be few and subtle. Just what they might be will be determined by breed (what does the breed standard require) and by way of going. A lateral gait might well have some differences to a more diagonal gait. But, again, these differences will be subtle. And in no case should they be outright flaws, like sickle hocks.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  19. #3599
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    This gelding is the most naturally gaited horse I own.
    Notice he has normal shoes, nothing 'gaited' or weird.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/susanpr/8408639017/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/susanpr/8409738420/

    this stepping under shot ( I think) shows how the angles can work together to create a deep reach -

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/susanpr/8408648621/


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  20. #3600
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    Yea boy Katarine! - he is fingerlicking good to look at for sure. I remember the videos you posted of him before - nice natural relaxed mover. I bet he feels like a dream to ride.
    from sunridge1:Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.it is going to be good until the last drop!Eleneswell, the open trail begged to be used. D Taylor



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