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  1. #1
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    Nov. 12, 2001
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    Minnesotan living in PARIS!
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    I stopped by a big QH show in the area today. I caught most of the hunter under saddle, eq, etc.

    I was MORTIFIED!! These people seemed to have just dressed their western horses up in english attire for the day and called it a hunter.
    The horses noses were dragging on the ground and all of them were doing the western four-beat canter. Not one of them held the reins properly, and many didn't seem to know what a diagonal was.

    On an up side--didn't see any rust breeches or GPA's [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"



  2. #2
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    Nov. 12, 2001
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    Minnesotan living in PARIS!
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    926

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    I stopped by a big QH show in the area today. I caught most of the hunter under saddle, eq, etc.

    I was MORTIFIED!! These people seemed to have just dressed their western horses up in english attire for the day and called it a hunter.
    The horses noses were dragging on the ground and all of them were doing the western four-beat canter. Not one of them held the reins properly, and many didn't seem to know what a diagonal was.

    On an up side--didn't see any rust breeches or GPA's [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    \"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a wand and a strip search.\"



  3. #3
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    Feb. 18, 2002
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    Zone 3 - NC
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    96

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    Yes, I know what you mean. My trainer goes to big Paint Horse shows every weekend, and all my friends have Paints. But Paint shows are really very different from hunter shows. Most of the hunter horses were bred and started out by western people. So they have a whole different way of carrying themselves. I personally don't like it at all. Yup, I know all about that.

    To ride or not to ride? What a stupid question!

    My pony is so polite - he always lets me go over the jump first!
    To ride or not to ride? What a stupid question!

    My pony is so polite - he always lets me go over the jump first!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2002
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    734

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    Winglish. *shudders*

    Breed shows have thier own standards though, just as USAE shows do. Thier right is our wrong, and our hunters look "awfully high headed" to them...but, to the AQHAs credit, they DO NOT encourage the "below the horizontal" peanut roller headset.

    I boarded at a QH barn for about a year, it was STRANGE to say the least. But to each thier own. [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img]

    Common sense aint so common.
    Common sense aint so common.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 1999
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    Jackson, MS AND Durham, NC
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    1,856

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoodoo:
    and many didn't seem to know what a diagonal was.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I am not sure (so no one flame me for this, I haven't read their rule book!!) but I believe diagonals are not a crucial part of the QH or at least schooling level Western/English under saddle/flat. A college student who works at my barn feeding & such rides Western (she just works at the barn, she rides someplace else) and she told me last week (she was watching my trainer give a lesson in the ring who was reminding a little girl on a pony to check her diagonal) that she never learned anything about diagonals and that "we just post to a rhythym not a certain one."

    Now, anyone out here feel free to correct me, but Heather supposedly shows on the county-level Western/English circuit and has done somewhat successfully.

    Just what she told me! & I couldn't believe it [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    **~~Emily~~** proud
    member of the junior clique!
    Emily@catchride.com



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2002
    Location
    Bell, FL
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    Well I am not sure about QH shows where you are, but down here in Fl., things are a little different. I show Palomino and know many who show QH. Yes, their heads are lower than a hunters, but definitely should not be below verticle, or peanut rollers. Many, many judges are really starting to place down or not use horse that go like this.

    Secondly, you do have to know your diagnals. As a youth, I got creamed in equitation until I learned to get my diagnols without looking. Even now, you wouldn't place high in equ. if you don't know your diagnols and get the wrong one. Now I have never noticed a trend of riders not getting diagnols in the under saddle. Most people do know how to ride correctly.

    That said, my palomino does carry his head pretty level, and for many of the horses, this can come naturally. But when he jumps, he picks up his head and uses himself correctly. On days when I don't want to school him for a show, I will let him trot and canter with his head up. It is all a matter of style and opinion of what is right. Very few horses will place well if they don't use themselves properly. Judges will place down a horse that is going on the forehand.
    \"I never play horseshoes \'cause Mother taught us not to throw our clothes around,\" ~ Mr. Ed



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2001
    Location
    Davis, CA
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    2,440

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    I call them the "hunners", oh god, I could have mmy flame suit on all night. I do not see what is so huntery or attractive about having a horses head to the ground with short western pleasure gaits, and riders who cant even be called riders. I am just waiting for the day that a horse like that trips and falls and the rider goes flying. They will not even show their faces at a rated show because they know their way of going is wrong. I got beat by them at local shows when my horse was a baby, I never went back. What is the point? Sorry QH people, I know you are not all like that, but the majority is! If I can find a picture, I will attach one later of the peanut pushers. UGH!!!!

    **~~Andrea,and In Your Dreams~~**
    Follow Your Dreams...
    Except the one where your in school in your underwear.

    "Horse Sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people." - W.C Feilds

    "Why does it take a lifetime to learn to live a lifetime?"

    Opinions are like buttholes, we all have one and they all stink.

    Proud Member Of The Abercrombie and Fitch Clique, aka the IGETCRABBY and B*tch Clique.

    Also A Follower Of:
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    Drea



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr. 12, 2002
    Location
    Western MA
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    264

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    From what I understand, in breed shows (I show Morgans) in equitation, knowing your diagnols is of course crucial [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] however, in the hunter classes diagnols do not count, and though most do know their diagnols, some post on the wrong one, for example if their horse's cadence is off when they post on the correct diagnol. I've seen it many times [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    Aimee



  9. #9
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    I don't know what show this was, but knowing diaganols is so important at QH shows (It's important everywhere) Almost all of QH riders easily pick up the right one without looking down...at least, that's what we are drilled on. Judges can't stand people looking down (they hate it!) so we get them without looking.

    And yes, there are peanut rollers. However, the judges are mostly NOT placing those horses anymore. There is a very big effort to eliminate it all together, however, it can't be done overnight.

    And those Under Saddle horses do NOT have short strides...have you ever seen a class of NICE ones go? Long Long strides.

    *Belen*
    If riding were all bright lights, big arenas and blue ribbons, I would have quit a long time ago."
    -George Morris

    *Visit My Page*



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    Well the "art" of taking the wrong diagonal is certainly not a stranger to the hunter ring. See how many pros you catch popping over to the wrong diagonal on a turn or as many places as they think they can get away with, if it just so happens that their horse trots better on one diagonal over the other!


    "You can pretend to be serious; you can't pretend to be witty. "
    - Sacha Guitry (1885-1957) *
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2000
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    VA, but visitor to Garrison & Toronto
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    13,792

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DMK:
    Well the "art" of taking the wrong diagonal is certainly not a stranger to the hunter ring. See how many pros you catch popping over to the wrong diagonal on a turn or as many places as they think they can get away with, if it just so happens that their horse trots better on one diagonal over the other!

    _<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Hmmmm...better, or perhaps sounder? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]
    \"Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of solitaire. It is a grand passion. It seizes a person whole and, once it has done so, he will have to accept that his life will be radically changed.\" -- Ralph Waldo E



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 25, 2002
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    734

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    Hmmmm...better, or perhaps sounder?

    Gosh...what a funny but correct point. I suffer so much from professional worship that my first thought when I see something like that is "Gee, they must be concontrating SO hard on something else that they overlooked the diagonal! Wish I could ride like that!"

    Common sense aint so common.
    Common sense aint so common.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 1999
    Location
    Virginia and North Carolina, Parrothead Clique!
    Posts
    4,893

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    You mean the pros who haven't learned to kick the leg opposite the off one before they get on? [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img] [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif[/img]



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2002
    Location
    California
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    251

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hoodoo:
    I stopped by a big QH show in the area today. I caught most of the hunter under saddle, eq, etc.

    I was MORTIFIED!! These people seemed to have just dressed their western horses up in english attire for the day and called it a hunter.
    The horses noses were dragging on the ground and all of them were doing the western four-beat canter. Not one of them held the reins properly, and many didn't seem to know what a diagonal was.

    On an up side--didn't see any rust breeches or GPA's [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] I know what you mean...my barn has breed shows (QH, Arab, etc..) and rated shows. anyway, this weekend is yet another QH show. It was downright SCARY. Half of the horses looked as if they were about to fall flat on their face! Granted, some of them were cute, but the majority had their noses almost touching the ground! and some people would switch between hunters and western and their poor horses didn't now whether to trot, jog, canter or lope! I know that judges on the AQHA circuit (I don't know anything about breed shows [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif[/img] ) don't like "peanut rollers" (or am I just confused again?) and don't place them very high in good competition. And don't even get me started on people in hunter classes cantering (or should I say loping?) on the buckle...*sitting on her hands so as not to type anything else to make people mad* [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif[/img]

    ~*Katy*~
    ~*Don't think. Just jump it*~
    ~*In Loving Memory of Romeo*~
    April 26, 1993-April 19, 2002



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2001
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,613

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    As has been said already, sometimes it is beneficial to post on the wrong diagonal, most all horses are better one way than the other and sometimes helping them the bad direction comes in the form of posting on the opposite diagonal and sometimes its for soundness reasons [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Anyone in the Eq however will be on the correct diagonal - usually without looking, or be put down for it.

    As for the type of movers, at dinky shows your probably not going to find good movers, same as at dinky hunter shows.

    Also, in the Youth Activity and Novice Amateur classes at any level show, your not going to see le creme de la creme - your going to find average horses going around doing the best they can do even though it might not be their best event.

    Finally - theyre NOTcalling them hunters!!!! They are HUNTER UNDER SADDLE HORSES NOT HUNTERS

    One more thing - how productive is it to bash other breeds and disciplines? Does it make you feel better? Like a bigger person? Can you tell me exactly what it accomplishes to criticize people who are out there trying to have fun, enjoy their horses, make a few friends, learn a little something and participate in a hobby/sport that they apparently are attracted to?

    www.meandercreekstable.com



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2001
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    2,225

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    I have also been a spectator at several of the big Paint shows (my trainer does Paints as well as Hunters) and been horrified at how many horses and riders have placed well after going all around the ring on the wrong diagonal or lead. This happened to one of the ladies from our barn, and it was definitely a mistake on her part - she does regular Hunters also. Usually there are four judges in the ring, and I guarantee that at least two out of the four will go for the peanut rollers [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] I have given up on trying to figure out which horses are really lame and which are just doing some version of the the lope etc.

    Even scarier than the flat classses are the Hunter Hacks where many of the trainers even jump their horses peanut roller style [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/img] The poor horses don't even get chance to see the fences till the last moment.

    And yes, I have read that the judges are not supposed to be rewarding peanut rollers anymore, but I sure wouldn't be able to tell that from what I have seen around here. And I am not knocking the competitors - I have seen some of the riders, who were trying to ride their horses correctly per the APHA guidelines, get frustrated by the continued selection of the peanut rollers.

    The results from the Paint World Show should be interesting because I know they are going to have some USAE Hunter judges there for the English classes [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    [This message was edited by akrogirl on Jun. 16, 2002 at 08:40 PM.]



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 16, 2000
    Location
    Sheffield, Ontario
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    692

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    <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MeanderCreek:

    One more thing - how productive is it to bash other breeds and disciplines? Does it make you feel better? Like a bigger person? Can you tell me exactly what it accomplishes to criticize people who are out there trying to have fun, enjoy their horses, make a few friends, learn a little something and participate in a hobby/sport that they apparently are attracted to?
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Amen sister.

    If they're not hurting their horses, or telling you how you should ride your horse, then what's the harm?

    Holy snob factor on this thread.

    I'll let you know how my upcoming Hunter Under Saddle class goes at the Appaloosa show... ***for shame!*** [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

    ~Katie~
    "The earth shook, the beach grass trembled, he propelled himself forward, and he flew." ~Mark Helprin
    I'm not one to say I toadaso. But I toadaso. - Ricky



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2002
    Location
    Bell, FL
    Posts
    414

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    Ok, I am going to post some pictures of my horse, James. He is one of the top horse in Palomino, and has been nationally ranked every year that I have shown, including winning in the nation in a number of his classes. He also has a world championship in hunter hack, winning under all four judges. You can see that he is not a peanut roller and he would not be able to jump like he does if I didn't let him pick his head up to jump.

    Yes, there are some horses that go with their heads too far down. They also got creamed this past Memorial day weekend and were not used by the judges for the most part.
    \"I never play horseshoes \'cause Mother taught us not to throw our clothes around,\" ~ Mr. Ed



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2002
    Location
    Bell, FL
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    414

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    Second jumping picture.
    \"I never play horseshoes \'cause Mother taught us not to throw our clothes around,\" ~ Mr. Ed



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2002
    Location
    Bell, FL
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    414

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    Here is his trotting picture. Yes he has his head down lower than hunters, but he is not a "peanut roller" and that is definitely not a short stride.
    \"I never play horseshoes \'cause Mother taught us not to throw our clothes around,\" ~ Mr. Ed



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